Time is a flat circle?

[goinginfected]

So I've been watching this relatively new HBO show called True Detective. If you haven't seen it, it's a pretty dark crime drama about a murder, and one of the main characters is always spouting pessimistic philosophical theories. I know it's just a TV show, but a lot of what I've heard from this character makes a little too much sense. About a year ago I had a power psychedelic experience off of what I believe to be LSD, and the trip revolved totally around deja vu, eternity, and a distinct sinister presence that seemed to be guiding me through the trip. I've spent the past year struggling to deal with my trip, and for the most part managed to move past it. Occasionally I can get really paranoid or anxious when things remind me of the trip, and probably my biggest fear is the thought of being trapped in some eternally looping time-line that never ends, possibly being controlled or guided by some entity, that isn't necessarily my friend (I know how crazy this sounds lmao). So this character in the show, says things often that line-up perfectly with my paranoia, and my trip. Here are some quotes:

“To realize that all your life, all your love, all your hate, all your memory, all your pain, it was all the same thing, it was all the same dream. A dream that you had inside a locked room. A dream about being a person. And like a lot of dreams, there’s a monster at the end of it.”

“Someone once told me time is a flat circle. Everything we’ve ever done or will do, we’re gonna do over and over and over again.”

There are many more that are on the same kinda thought process all through-out this show. Now aside from making me anxious and paranoid, it's really got me thinking about what could be the meaning/purpose/secret truth of life again. Could there be any truth to the idea that yes, we are going to be reincarnated, except just as ourselves. Over and over and over again, forever. It's a delusion that, because of the trip, seems to make perfect sense, even though it sounds a little crazy. It's really got me thinking this could be the reason we have deja vu. To me, this is a terrifying thought, it seems so sinister. However my thought process has been totally warped by trips. There's times where I think I'm going crazy, and other times I think I've seen behind the curtain. Anyway, just wondering what anyone else's thoughts regarding deja vu, the infinite loop, and reincarnating as yourself eternally are. (Also makes me wonder more about destiny. Do we actually have a choice? Or is everything entirely predetermined, and we simply have put ourselves under hypnosis or illusion?)

 

[Abject]

Could it be true? I guess
Do I believe it? Does it seem more likely than your birth (which is highly unlikely)? No.

Seems like you gotta deal with your past actions or something. Feeling guilty or something?

Free will and time both have threads if you wanna do a bit of reading (I highly recommend the thread about time)

 

[psood0nym]

Could there be any truth to the idea that yes, we are going to be reincarnated, except just as ourselves. Over and over and over again, forever. It's a delusion that, because of the trip, seems to make perfect sense, even though it sounds a little crazy. It's really got me thinking this could be the reason we have deja vu. To me, this is a terrifying thought, it seems so sinister. However my thought process has been totally warped by trips. There's times where I think I'm going crazy, and other times I think I've seen behind the curtain. Anyway, just wondering what anyone else's thoughts regarding deja vu, the infinite loop, and reincarnating as yourself eternally are. (Also makes me wonder more about destiny. Do we actually have a choice? Or is everything entirely predetermined, and we simply have put ourselves under hypnosis or illusion?)

I had a seizure vision in reaction to 4-AcO-DPT, liquor, 1,4 butanediol, and diphenhydramine a few years ago that presented me with a very similar idea: I was going to be re-born and live exactly the same life again. It made a lot of sense at the time. After all, if we are a product of our physical existence then what else can a life be other than itself over again? It was a horrifying experience because it seemed like my fate was to be trapped in an eternal metaphysical prison, but we are not "trapped" infinitely in such temporal loops. Rather, that was the only thing I could perceive would happen logically at that point from within that perspective since I thought I had died but hadn't. Reassuringly, the fact that I could perceive the loop at all suggests that it's possible for our awareness to extricate itself from such loops, and, presumably, move on to other vistas. So be relieved brother! As strange and difficult to relate to for those who have not experienced it as it is, I nevertheless have a deep understanding of this precise fear, and I most definitely have moved on successfully!

 

[Theocs]

In philosophy there was a big part of the existentialist movement dedicated to this very idea, which is more well-known as that of "eternal return." IIRC, one great example of it comes about as characters grapple with it (and its opposite) in the book "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" by Milan Kundera (which is actually a great book in its own right).

Here's the wikipedia page on Eternal Return:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_return

 

[sekio]

There's a concept called the Poincaré recurrence theorem which basically says that statistically, over some arbitrarily large period of time, all bounded systems will eventually return to something similar to their initial state.

On the time scale of the observable universe this is a staggeringly large number, between

and

years. [ref]

It's a long time away to worry about for my little monkey brain.

 

[What 23]

ive had similar thoughts.

it would seem that my life is "on a disc".

like I had a dream about sleeping in a vermillion colored ufo the night before my friend and his friend claimed to see a ufo, and i don't often dream so specifically of a ufo- that's the first time in memory, and my friend had never before reported seeing a ufo.

actually, i did have one dream where i might have been in a "ufo", before, but i'm not sure if "unidentified flying object" works as a descriptor, as it seemed like my origin, and destiny. it was in space, though, as i saw outside of a doorway shaped portal in the wall. and outside were objects. planets or stars, close. and this dream has connected to events in it's future. it's resonated.

perhaps it wasn't my origin, but the computer that i saw- this motherboard look, seemed like it came before. but I also felt it has yet to come. when i woke up, i felt that it was more real than here- more outside the box, than here, at first. as if this world was created within the rules of that one.

the word "acausal" might work with this. where future events can be seen as causing past events... but the word acausal would destroy itself, really, and "cause". it also means no cause. acausal, the word, implies to me the idea of things being tied. that a past event is tied or associated with something in the future, just as the future is to the past. that it's all balanced out. one.

maybe the entirety of what we see here is just one part in a greater machine, and in order for that machine to run well, it relies on predictability.

perhaps there are slight variances, though. but i imagine it's rather crystalline, and perfect, or can be seen as, on one level.

 

[Foreigner]

I realize my question is predicated upon the assumption that our existence has to mean something, but... what would be the point of eternal return? It would make sense to me if we gain marginal awareness of prior loops with each lifetime so that there is a learning component, but if we don't do that then that kind of existence seems completely pointless. Unless it's tied to some greater paradox, like earth being trapped in a temporal anomaly of some kind and we are in a unique sector of space where time loops and we're unaware. Other than that, I just don't get it.

It would explain deja vu, I suppose.

 

[In Dubio]

I realize my question is predicated upon the assumption that our existence has to mean something, but... what would be the point of eternal return? It would make sense to me if we gain marginal awareness of prior loops with each lifetime so that there is a learning component, but if we don't do that then that kind of existence seems completely pointless. Unless it's tied to some greater paradox, like earth being trapped in a temporal anomaly of some kind and we are in a unique sector of space where time loops and we're unaware. Other than that, I just don't get it.

It would explain deja vu, I suppose.

Only a bored and masochistic creator could explain eternal return.

 

[What 23]

What if its like a heartbeat?

 

[Shrooms00087]

The gem of this idea lies within this statement:
“Someone once told me time is a flat circle. Everything we’ve ever done or will do, we’re gonna do over and over and over again.”

This idea (if you were to believe it) makes you confront your past and contemplate the future in a very fatalistic way. The illusion, the dream, is the fantasy of perception. Love your past, embrace your future --to love the coming history and so forth.

Amor fati!

 

[lucifane]

I had a seizure vision in reaction to 4-AcO-DPT, liquor, 1,4 butanediol, and diphenhydramine a few years ago that presented me with a very similar idea: I was going to be re-born and live exactly the same life again. It made a lot of sense at the time. After all, if we are a product of our physical existence then what else can a life be other than itself over again? It was a horrifying experience because it seemed like my fate was to be trapped in an eternal metaphysical prison, but we are not "trapped" infinitely in such temporal loops. Rather, that was the only thing I could perceive would happen logically at that point from within that perspective since I thought I had died but hadn't. Reassuringly, the fact that I could perceive the loop at all suggests that it's possible for our awareness to extricate itself from such loops, and, presumably, move on to other vistas. So be relieved brother! As strange and difficult to relate to for those who have not experienced it as it is, I nevertheless have a deep understanding of this precise fear, and I most definitely have moved on successfully!

Tryptamine? Or hullucinogen

 

[Zerrr]

Infinite loop

 

[malakaix]

So I've been watching this relatively new HBO show called True Detective.

“To realize that all your life, all your love, all your hate, all your memory, all your pain, it was all the same thing, it was all the same dream. A dream that you had inside a locked room. A dream about being a person. And like a lot of dreams, there’s a monster at the end of it.”

“Someone once told me time is a flat circle. Everything we’ve ever done or will do, we’re gonna do over and over and over again.”

First of all, incredible show. Very intelligent writing and i resonate a great deal with Rust Cohle's perspective; the scene where he talk's about everything just been a jerry-rig of presumption and dumb will and that you could just let go, that everything is simply a dream. I completely agree with this, and i found that scene to be one of the most powerful scenes in the show..

If you think about it, your life is a story your continuously telling yourself.. but when you stop telling yourself that story, the illusion falls away and you realize none of it was real.. this is the point he was making, that in the last nanosecond of the victims life.. they let go of that story, the story of been a person.. I don't really want to go off-track here but in my experience this can be experienced through high dose's of psychedelics, or what is commonly referred to in many circles has ego dissolution.

The idea of yourself is a limited perspective, when that's let go of you experience the infinity of time and space.. and you see that you are actually infinite. I think the idea of life been on an infinite loop arises because as psoodynm pointed out, you're only able to logically perceive that been the only outcome while in this state. I had one such experience with a breakthrough dose of DMT, it's impossible to grasp the concept of eternity from a logical perspective, you get thrown into a loop.. because there is no beginning and no end, it defy's the very nature of logic..

But, if this were to be true.. that your life as you know it would be repeated over and over again infinitely; is this not liberating to know? The very idea free's you from yourself.. it removes the idea that life has an objective meaning, and places everything into your hands. You determine what life means, what it's value is.. your power is given back to you. You're no longer an observer drifting aimlessly through life wondering where it's all leading too.. you are the meaning, you're that infinite point in time.

I'm obviously looking at this from an optimistic point of view.. i struggle often with trying to make sense of all of this. Once you've seen behind the veil it's impossible to ever go back to living life as you did before.. i see myself in a state of perpetual existential despair with moments of clarity.

Amor fati!

Yes.