Opioids Tianeptine Megathread v1

[xxxyyy]

i've been taking mirtazapine for over a year now, at a dosage of 30mg at night. it does fuck all for my depression, but still helps me sleep. the bupropion is a relatively recent addition, so i'm not quite sure if it's helping but i think it is at least to a small degree.
anyway, tianeptine, an antidepressant that i've found very interesting for a long time, is now available in germany. and i definitely plan on getting it scripted.
so my question is it a good/safe/sensible idea to take tianeptine on top of mirtazapine? i know that tianeptine and SSRIs cancel each other out, but does this also apply to mirtazapine?

 

[pasha]

Tianeptine has only shown to cancel the effects of SSRI fluoxetine in vivo, and not escitalopram, citalopram, and duloxetine.

This drug amongst being a tricyclic is considered to be a serotonin enhancer, raising extracellular levels of serotonin in the hippocampus. It has a complex pharmacological profile much like mirtazapine being an NMDA atagonist, and a dopamine modulator.

To interpret how these two tricyclics will interact is difficult. Nonetheless, mixing them is contraindicated due to an increased risk of tricyclic toxicity due to highly increased plasma levels. If done it should be under the care of a medical professional with carefully guaged and monitored dosages. The practice of mixing tricyclics with bupropion is fine.

I would recommend you ditch the mirtazapine if your hell bent on trying the tianeptine not only due to the mentioned medical risks, but so you can evaluate its benefit alone without the possibility of another drug tarnishing its effects.

 

[Lady Codone]

Can't find any info on this one. Tianeptine (Coaxil, Stablon) is classified as a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Enhancer (SSRE), which is pretty different than anything on the market today. Any ideas what substances--recreational, herbal or pharmaceutical--it might interact dangerously with?

If you've taken this drug personally, what were the effects? I've seen it described as stimulating, sedating and even opiate-like. Just curious about its effects in low/medicinal doses as I don't plan to abuse it.

Thanks!

 

[bob_arctor]

There might be some doubt if Tianeptine actually exerts its effects an SSRE (despite being classified as such a one). I remember stumbling on speculations about this elsewhere as well, but here's something Epsilon Alpha mentioned in an ADD thread:

If I recall Stahl (a major psychopharmacologist for the FDA) was concerned about heart valve changes resulting from 5HT releasers. As for the serotonin reuptake enhancer bit, I argue that it's more due to a marketing ploy than anything else. I mean getting the public sold on one neurotransmitter system was hard enough but trying to explain the complex interplay of the glutamate system (particularly AMPA) is going to be hard to market.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...197804E.d04t03

(Oh, I now see that you participated in that thread as well, so this is not new speculations for you).

I've gone through a gram of hcl in 2 months (often only taking a single dose of 15-30 mg in a day, not the 3 x 25 usually used medically). I'm no fan of opiates/opioids really (maybe except for Kratom, Codeine and Myrrh isolates), but Tianeptine feels like a imagine opiates feel for people who really enjoy the feeling, but with a kind of mild empathogenic/euphoric bodily feeling twist to it. Instant anxiety release 20 minutes after ingestion, but without really inducing anything like the pure contendedness I imagine opiates might give. So no just sitting on the sofa. However, I never really felt it to be conducive to be working on either - clouds the mind a bit, and sometimes the bodily feeling just feels like it gets in the way.

The first time I used it I was IRC:ing madly away, feeling very social and open, but those kinds of more recreational feelings dissipated fast after using several days in a row. +3 hours and you're pretty much baseline (except for the cumulative antidepressant effects after a few weeks (?) of treatment - hard to judge how much of that I had since I've abused lots of other stuff both between tianeptine doses, and also concurrent with it). I never experienced any real crash to speak of, but when the tianeptine is out of your system, you do feel a marked difference which might make trigger chasing behaviour in persons prone to addictive behaviour. As tolerance increases, this feeling lessens (if you avoid upping your dosage all the time, that is - it seems like a pretty horrible drug to go chasing)

Right now it's gone in the bottom of the drawer - I never felt I got the lasting antidepressant effects I got from selegeline (which is the most effective antidepressant for me). Sometimes I've used it to ease comedowns or hangovers.

I'm really interested in the interaction profile of this drug me as well, be it taken from literature or anecdotal reports of sketchy or possibly non-harmful combinations.

 

[Lady Codone]

Interesting. Such a strange substance! Just wondering if it would be dangerous combined with everyday stuff like alcohol or herbs like kanna that affect serotonin. Time will tell I suppose!

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Circle of Fiends]

Anyone here tried tianeptine (Stablon, Coaxil)? I mean orally, of course, since IV can lead to loss of limbs.

What are your opinions on it? Any idea what classes of drugs would interact dangerously with it? I'm generally pretty good about pharmacology and predicting interactions but am in the dark about tianeptine. Things I take regularly include 4-FA, 2-FMA, tramadol, kratom and weed (all in very modest doses).

Not looking for a mind-blowing high, just a possible antidepressant that works. Would be interested to know the benefits, side effects and any other observations from people who've actually taken it.

Thx!

 

[tweex]

I've used with 2-FMA. Great combo, clean euphoria with clean stimulation. Supposedly pretty similar to the "mythical" phenmetrazine. Also goes well with weed, enhances the euphoria a lot. Can't really comment on the other combos, but it tends not to have adverse interactions.

Overall Tianeptine is IMO the single best anti-depressant, and it is the single purest (but not strongest) euphoriant I've ever tried. I haven't had any side effects from it.

 

[Circle of Fiends]

Whoa, awesome! I'd be very conservative with any combos since I've never tried tianeptine and don't fully understand its pharmacological mechanisms. I'm seeing a lot of mixed reviews on it, but I guess that goes for any anti-depressant. Benzo withdrawal has me SO fucked up right now...hoping the 'neptine will help! :D

Thanks for the info.

 

[bob_arctor]

Tianpetine didn't do much for when tapering Pregabalin. Used it in combinations, but dosed very low, so couldn't really say how it affected the experiences. Tweex's comment sounds encouraging though.

 

[Circle of Fiends]

Yeah, the bar is set pretty high with the phenmetrazine comparison!

Looks like about 10% of people love tianeptine and 10% despise it, with the other 80% falling somewhere in between. If it lifts my mood even a little it will be worth it. Really hope it's not like the other TCA's I've tried (Elavil, Anafranil...blech).

 

[xxxyyy]

it certainly is nothing like any other antidepressant i've tried, and i've been on quite a few over the years. at the prescribed dosage (3x12.5mgs) there were no noticable side-effects, however i didn't take it long enough for any antidepressant effect to set in. in dosages of about 250mgs it does get me high, with mild euphoria and a nice anxiolysis. however it does make me nauseous.

 

[optimuswind]

I recently bought some Tianeptine. I've got about 20g of the stuff.

The first time I took it, I went a bit overboard and did about 300mg. It wasn't opiod-like (though I've never done opiates), or MDMA-like euphoria at all, it was mostly just energetic anxiolysis, like the first time you take a large dose of Phenibut, actually.

After about 3 days (lowered dose to 100mg max), the effects seemed to stop altogether.
I theorized that since it enhances uptake of 5-HT, then maybe I've depleted my 5-HT? So I bought some 100mg 5-HTP pills, and started taking 3 at a time about 3 times a day, while taking no Tianeptine.

I took 100mg Tianeptine again after a few days, and it wasn't as good as the first time, but it was better. However, after about 3 hours I got very hot a nauseas, and started vomiting for about 5 minutes - just clear liquid vomit. It felt like mild serotonin syndrome, and I was pretty panicked at that point, but after vomiting I felt 100% better, but the 'high' from the drug was completely gone too, maybe the vomiting and the nausea just killed my mood.

I kept experimenting with 5-HTP and Tianeptine for the next few days, adjusting doses and times taken between the 5-HTP and Tianeptine, but each time I found that it ended up in nausea and vomiting. The last time (2 days ago), the nausea didn't subside after vomiting and kept going for a few hours, and I kept vomiting for quite a while. I did that day take a large dose of Phenibut too, which may have had something to do with it, but anyway it wasn't nice.

I also thought of taking some Venlafaxine for a couple of nights in a row to inhibit reuptake, thereby increasing the 5-HT in my brain, for the Tianeptine to use up later, right? IAmNotANeurochemist so this is all just total guessing on my part, but it made a bit of sense to me. Can't tell if it really helped or did anything though with potentiating it after stopping the Venlafaxine. (75mg doses)

There's no feeling to re-dose, or any kind of addiction that I can tell so far, either chemically or mentally, I can take it or leave it. There's no crash after it ends, and it feels very clean (until you overdose and vomit).
I'm just wondering why the first couple of times I took it, at 300 and 500mg doses, I didn't get nauseas or vomiting, but now going over 100mg I do. Anyone able to explain?

I won't dare go over 100mg now because the nausea and vomiting just make you feel awful. I kept wishing I had some weed on hand to kill the nausea.

Anyway. Just throwing my experience in here.

 

[bob_arctor]

Even 100 mg is a very steep dose. And it is debatable whether its main action really exerted through SSRE action. Anyway, despite what mechanism Tianeptine acts through, mixing serotonergics like that should be avoided - sounds dangerous to me.

Don't forget to take 5-HTP together with green tea extract or other EGCG source to avoid heart problems.

 

[purplehaze147]

Can I.V. tianeptine really cause limb loss or was that like a joke or something? I can get it and my favorite ROA is I.V., I have to shoot my opioids. What's a normal dose of this drug for someone with no tolerance to opioids?

 

[Berdo tm1]

If i take kratom once a week should i not add tianeptine into the same week? So either take kratom that week or tianeptine.

I know tianeptine can be taken consecutively with little issues of withdrawal but i still want to take kratom.

So I am concerned about tianeptine trashing my opiod tolerance.

So should it be an either/or?

As a DOC kratom is much more convenient and readily availaible/safer imo- safer in that my mind is more at ease taking something that has a longer history of use for a semi regular usage.

Ive not tried tinaeptine yet; it arrived in the post today but i was able to resist my usual temptation of trying a drug as soon as i got it since i had kratom last night and didnt wanna risk it. Still not decided if i will have it yet. Since Im getting a good relationship with kratom i dont wanna wreck a good thing by messing up my precious receptors on some fly by night white powder.

I dont wanna cheat on my new steady girl, kratom, lest she punish me for my transgressions!

 

[《Plasticity》]

Being that the half-life of Tianeptine is ~3 hours, you should be able to fit both into your weekly schedule without problems. If you wanna play it safe, just give yourself two days after each kratom use to dose your Tianeptine and another day or two before resuming, though tbh I don't see the occasional one day washout causing any issues.

 

[Lady Codone]

I take them in the same week and sometimes the same day. Tianeptine should not affect your opioid tolerance unless you're taking obscene amounts of it. Even then, it's not a direct opiate and shouldn't have much effect.

However, if you have a large kratom tolerance there's a good chance you won't feel much from the tianeptine. It's subtle and not really recreational at all. Unless you have depression it's not of much use. Effects last about 2 hours and tolerance rises quickly for a lot of folks.

 

[Berdo tm1]

Thanks. Well it is a direct opiate according to new data (found in July 2014) isnt it as its a full agonist.

 

[alteredstatez]

I've experimented with different doses less than 50mg to above 200mg the higher doses have stronger effects but tolerance develops quickly I know that in some countries it's prescribed as an anti-depressant usually 12.5 mg 3x a day im from the U.S.
On the stablon website it says its action is on the ampa and nmda receptors same receptors that racetams stimulate ive done a few racetams piracetam,aniracetam,phenyl-piracetam none had the positive effects I get from tianeptine I know it's not from tianeptine being an opiate agonist
I definetly think this has powerfull nootropic properties
I would like to find something similar to its effects it does also lift mood so it does in fact have anti-depressant properties as i do have depression I recently tried sunifram didn't notice anything I thought I would reading
testimonials

 

[yteek]

I tried 100mg, felt some positive effect, but then nasuea as well.

Never dabbled again, kinda scared to go above that, not sure where a sweet spot is, but it wasn't there. With little info and research available at these doses, I don't think I'll go abvove that.

I think phenibut is a lot better....