Thumbprinting LSD
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LSDelicious
Bluelighter
The largest thumbprint dose I've heard of was 2 grams eaten Robert Hunter, a lyricist of the Grateful Dead.
-=ReD-hAzE=-
Bluelighter
Here's some more LD50 info, c&p strait from erowid.
LD50 SOURCES
Clinical Management of Poisoning and Drug Overdose
by Haddad Winchester
page 459:
"No well-documented human deaths resulting directly from the toxic effects of LSD itself have occurred, though LSD has been implicated in accidental deaths, suicides, and homicides. LD50 (That's lethal dose in 50% of those who injest this much) determinations vary widely with species, begin 46 mg/kg in mice, 16.5 mg/kg in rats, 0.3 mg/kg in rabbits and 0.1 mg/kg in elephants. In monkeys, the LD100 is 5 mg/kg. Death in these animals is the result of respiratory failure, preceded in the rabbit by marked hyperthermia. Human data are manifestly lacking, and predictions of the average lethal dose for humans have ranged from 0.2 mg/kg to more than 1 mg/kg, administered orally.
Pharmacotheon by Ott
by Jonathon Ott
p.139
"I must emphasize that there is no danger of death or injury from overdose of LSD, which must have about the highest therapeutic index of any drug known (the ratio of fatal dose to effective dose is unknown since no human being has ever died from an overdose of LSD, but must be very high, as individuals have mistakenly ingested hundreds of doses at a sitting; this is a way of saying that the drug is not at all toxic)."
Psychedelics Encyclopedia
Peter Stafford
p.70
"For those concerned about immediate medical hazards in ingesting LSD...Abram Hoffer has estimated, on the basis of animal studies, that the half-lethal human dose--meaning half would die--would be about 14,000 [ug]. But one person who took 40,000 ug survived. In the only case of death reportedly caused by overdose (Journal of the Kentucky Medical Association), the quantity of LSD in the blood indicated that 320,000 ug had been injected intravenously."
Misc References*
by K Trout
Based on the real world murder of lab animals the following results HAVE been published for LD50 studies of LSD-25:
(Please bear in mind that an oral LD50 is commonly 2 or 3X an intravenous LD50)
Mouse (intravenous)
46 mg/ kg (citing Rothlin & Cerletti (1957) Ann. NY Acad. Sci. 66: 668)
65 mg/ kg (citing information provided by Sandoz Pharmaceuticals)
Rat (intravenous)
16.5 mg/ kg (citing Rothlin & Cerletti (1957) above)
I omitted the rabbit figures as rabbits are extremely overly sensitive to all the major hallucinogens except for mescaline and similar. Source for the above was Usdin & Efron (1979) Psychotropic Drugs and Related Compounds (2nd Edition).
Please also note the values above are given as mg/kg of body weight not as simple mg doses. They suggest a human dose, regardless of the route of administration, would be radically greater than 14 mg.
If averaging the low and high values above, the value obtained is ~41 mg/ kg of body weight. Since this is an IV value (& assuming people respond like rodents)an oral LD50 would likely be in excess of 80 mg/kg (Meaning it would take just over 5 grams for someone of my body weight).
Even taking the lowest figure (16 mg/kg) we still wind up with an LD50 of more than a gram of acid for a 65 kg human; even if using the IV figure as an oral one!
If anyone knows where Hoffer derived his figures, we'd love to know.
Related references (taken from p 70 of Stafford's Psychedelic's Encyclopedia):
For the 320 mg of LSD injected intravenously under the mistaken idea it was speed (this killed the user and appears to be the only instance of death by LSD overdose), the reference is: Journal of the Kentucky Medical Association 75: 172-173 (I have been unable to obtain a hardcopy of this).
For the dinner party where a bindle of pure crystalline LSD was confused with another one of cocaine and this case of mistaken identity resulted in two fat lines being chopped out and snorted by the 8 people attending: Klock et al. (1975) Clinical Toxicology Volume #8 Issue #2.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A fatal poisoning with LSD" .
Forensic Sci Int 1985 Jun-Jul;28(2):109-13
Fysh RR, Oon MC, Robinson KN, Smith RN, White PC, Whitehouse MJ.
"Radioimmunoassay, high-performance liquid chromatography and capillary gas chromatography-mass spectrometry were used to detect and measure LSD in the first reported case of fatal poisoning by LSD. The levels found in ante-mortem serum and plasma and in post-mortem blood, liver blood and stomach contents are given."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extreme hyperthermia after LSD ingestion.
Friedman SA, Hirsch SE.
JAMA 1971 Sep 13;217(11):1549-50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coma, hyperthermia, and bleeding associated with massive LSD overdose, a report of eight cases.
Klock JC, Boerner U, Becker CE.
Clin Toxicol 1975;8(2):191-203
Eight patients were seen within 15 min of intranasal self-administration of large amounts of pure D-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) tartrate powder. Emesis and collapse occurred along with sign of sympathetic overactivity, hyperthermia, coma, and respiratory arrest. Mild generalized bleeding occurred in several patients and evidence of platelet dysfunction was present in all. Serum and gastric concentrations of LSD tartrate ranged from 2.1 to 26 ng/ml and 1000 to 7000 mug/100 ml, respectively. With supportive care, all patients recovered. Massive LSD overdose in humans is life-threatening and produces striking and distinctive manifestations.
LD50 SOURCES
Clinical Management of Poisoning and Drug Overdose
by Haddad Winchester
page 459:
"No well-documented human deaths resulting directly from the toxic effects of LSD itself have occurred, though LSD has been implicated in accidental deaths, suicides, and homicides. LD50 (That's lethal dose in 50% of those who injest this much) determinations vary widely with species, begin 46 mg/kg in mice, 16.5 mg/kg in rats, 0.3 mg/kg in rabbits and 0.1 mg/kg in elephants. In monkeys, the LD100 is 5 mg/kg. Death in these animals is the result of respiratory failure, preceded in the rabbit by marked hyperthermia. Human data are manifestly lacking, and predictions of the average lethal dose for humans have ranged from 0.2 mg/kg to more than 1 mg/kg, administered orally.
Pharmacotheon by Ott
by Jonathon Ott
p.139
"I must emphasize that there is no danger of death or injury from overdose of LSD, which must have about the highest therapeutic index of any drug known (the ratio of fatal dose to effective dose is unknown since no human being has ever died from an overdose of LSD, but must be very high, as individuals have mistakenly ingested hundreds of doses at a sitting; this is a way of saying that the drug is not at all toxic)."
Psychedelics Encyclopedia
Peter Stafford
p.70
"For those concerned about immediate medical hazards in ingesting LSD...Abram Hoffer has estimated, on the basis of animal studies, that the half-lethal human dose--meaning half would die--would be about 14,000 [ug]. But one person who took 40,000 ug survived. In the only case of death reportedly caused by overdose (Journal of the Kentucky Medical Association), the quantity of LSD in the blood indicated that 320,000 ug had been injected intravenously."
Misc References*
by K Trout
Based on the real world murder of lab animals the following results HAVE been published for LD50 studies of LSD-25:
(Please bear in mind that an oral LD50 is commonly 2 or 3X an intravenous LD50)
Mouse (intravenous)
46 mg/ kg (citing Rothlin & Cerletti (1957) Ann. NY Acad. Sci. 66: 668)
65 mg/ kg (citing information provided by Sandoz Pharmaceuticals)
Rat (intravenous)
16.5 mg/ kg (citing Rothlin & Cerletti (1957) above)
I omitted the rabbit figures as rabbits are extremely overly sensitive to all the major hallucinogens except for mescaline and similar. Source for the above was Usdin & Efron (1979) Psychotropic Drugs and Related Compounds (2nd Edition).
Please also note the values above are given as mg/kg of body weight not as simple mg doses. They suggest a human dose, regardless of the route of administration, would be radically greater than 14 mg.
If averaging the low and high values above, the value obtained is ~41 mg/ kg of body weight. Since this is an IV value (& assuming people respond like rodents)an oral LD50 would likely be in excess of 80 mg/kg (Meaning it would take just over 5 grams for someone of my body weight).
Even taking the lowest figure (16 mg/kg) we still wind up with an LD50 of more than a gram of acid for a 65 kg human; even if using the IV figure as an oral one!
If anyone knows where Hoffer derived his figures, we'd love to know.
Related references (taken from p 70 of Stafford's Psychedelic's Encyclopedia):
For the 320 mg of LSD injected intravenously under the mistaken idea it was speed (this killed the user and appears to be the only instance of death by LSD overdose), the reference is: Journal of the Kentucky Medical Association 75: 172-173 (I have been unable to obtain a hardcopy of this).
For the dinner party where a bindle of pure crystalline LSD was confused with another one of cocaine and this case of mistaken identity resulted in two fat lines being chopped out and snorted by the 8 people attending: Klock et al. (1975) Clinical Toxicology Volume #8 Issue #2.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A fatal poisoning with LSD" .
Forensic Sci Int 1985 Jun-Jul;28(2):109-13
Fysh RR, Oon MC, Robinson KN, Smith RN, White PC, Whitehouse MJ.
"Radioimmunoassay, high-performance liquid chromatography and capillary gas chromatography-mass spectrometry were used to detect and measure LSD in the first reported case of fatal poisoning by LSD. The levels found in ante-mortem serum and plasma and in post-mortem blood, liver blood and stomach contents are given."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extreme hyperthermia after LSD ingestion.
Friedman SA, Hirsch SE.
JAMA 1971 Sep 13;217(11):1549-50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coma, hyperthermia, and bleeding associated with massive LSD overdose, a report of eight cases.
Klock JC, Boerner U, Becker CE.
Clin Toxicol 1975;8(2):191-203
Eight patients were seen within 15 min of intranasal self-administration of large amounts of pure D-lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) tartrate powder. Emesis and collapse occurred along with sign of sympathetic overactivity, hyperthermia, coma, and respiratory arrest. Mild generalized bleeding occurred in several patients and evidence of platelet dysfunction was present in all. Serum and gastric concentrations of LSD tartrate ranged from 2.1 to 26 ng/ml and 1000 to 7000 mug/100 ml, respectively. With supportive care, all patients recovered. Massive LSD overdose in humans is life-threatening and produces striking and distinctive manifestations.
john mason
Bluelighter
2 grams? Shit, I can't fathom that 
nanobrain
Bluelighter
wasn't Hunter's confirmed crystal dose closer to 1/4 of a gram?
LSDelicious
Bluelighter
I know Hunter did a few, exact number unknown. But I remember reading that his bigget was a 2 gram feast .
.
john mason
Bluelighter
That's a little bit absurd
now thats a funny research.. someone orders 50 elefants to inject them with LSD and see how many die... gnrm23
Bluelighter
that poor fukn elephant was sorta spooked by the acid they gave 'im (they do have quite large brains) - but prolly what killed 'im was the massive shot of thorazine they shot 'im up with (prolly just fell over & stopped breathing from the dam' trank...)
OldSchoolStyley
Bluelighter
Two GRAMS? 1/4 GRAM? Jesus christ I would be lucky to have that much acid at one time in my life.
"Anyway as I said in my other thread when you first buy crystal from the family their's 2 requirement's. 1. You have to be taught how to lay it properly and be trusted to do so on your own. 2. You have to do a thumbprint"
trial by fire baby.
"Anyway as I said in my other thread when you first buy crystal from the family their's 2 requirement's. 1. You have to be taught how to lay it properly and be trusted to do so on your own. 2. You have to do a thumbprint"
trial by fire baby.
Robert Hunter's overdose was 1/4 gram LSD. Historical accuracy.
a quote from "ORFEO: A Dialog between ROBERT HUNTER and TERENCE McKENNA"
a quote from "ORFEO: A Dialog between ROBERT HUNTER and TERENCE McKENNA"
http://www.levity.com/orfeo/index.part1.html
blahblahblah
Bluelighter
We used to do pinky swirls in are old crystal vials/screw jars that were not washed out completely (on purpose), and those would send you out there...
Dosage I have no idea but at the end of 1 or 5 gram vials/screw jars down in the bottom of the brown pharmy bottle the crystal would stick on the bottom ring and on a hot summer day the crystal would look like it was growing into the glass and after pinky swirling (thumb wouldnt fit) there were visable shimmers/crystal on your finger that we would just stick in our mouth and suck like a little baby sucking his first tit.
I could only imagine a huge thumbprint with a dusting of crystal all over it - ugh no thank you
Dosage I have no idea but at the end of 1 or 5 gram vials/screw jars down in the bottom of the brown pharmy bottle the crystal would stick on the bottom ring and on a hot summer day the crystal would look like it was growing into the glass and after pinky swirling (thumb wouldnt fit) there were visable shimmers/crystal on your finger that we would just stick in our mouth and suck like a little baby sucking his first tit.
I could only imagine a huge thumbprint with a dusting of crystal all over it - ugh no thank you
stonedsublime
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 367
OldSchoolStyley said:
I know this is an old thread, but the other post about someone taking 15 - 20 hits lead me to research thumbprinting, which took me to the shroomery, some articles and back to bluelight from what seems to be an old thread. Anyways I would like to know who "the family" are, that are mentioned in the above quote? Is it the guys who made the orange sunshine acid? Although I am pretty sure they are known as the Brotherhood of Eternal Love.
anyhelp?
The Family were essentially the penultimate hippies. They toured around with the Grateful Dead, ate a shitload of acid, and produced and distributed the acid for most of the country. To the Family, LSD is a sacrament; a gift from above. The Family truly believe(d) that LSD is light and goodness and "The Way". Personally, I would do a Thumbprint if and only if I had the support structure of the Family or similar there to guide me and take care of me during the experience.
stonedsublime
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 367
Thanks Ness, is there any good articles on them? Didnt have any luck on wikipedia..
feelgoodhit
Bluelighter
heh, whenever i hear about thumb printing, i think of ram dass, who drank liquid lsd for days straight from the bottle at the millbrook estate, & was frustrated when he kept coming down.
feelgoodhit
Bluelighter
oh my god, that thread is amazing! fuck, i should join shroomery, that was intense! i love the suggestion for that book, "the print", hahaha. goodness, it's interesting about high dose lsd trips, it does seem like you're so gone that it can't really go bad. it seems alot of the problem is when people attempt to resist the psychedelic pull, but you can't really resist the psychic pull of 10 sheets of acid...
RearNakedChoke
Bluelighter
This is very interesting. With the permanently tripping part, i'd have to turn a thumbprint down if i ever got the chance. Atleast at this present. Otherwise i'd like to try it out. Not that i'll ever get the chance though 
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