• DPMC Moderators: thegreenhand | tryptakid
  • Drug Policy & Media Coverage Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Drug Busts Megathread Video Megathread

Thoughts on FDAs latest attempt to ban Kratom and Phenibut?

Mycophile

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
4,319
Well, I haven't been on here in over a year, but what does everyone think about the FDAs latest low down attempt to GLOBALLY ban Kratom, Phenibut and several other substances by getting the World Health Organization involved?

Do you guys think we can beat this again or do you think they are actually going to succeed in a literal world wide ban of Kratom and Phenibut?

I'd be beyond pissed, but they've failed every time they've tried so far.

And mods, if this is the wrong place for this you can put it in another sub forum.

Mod edit -


here is a recent article on FDA interest in kratom^
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Do you guys think we can beat this again or do you think they are actually going to succeed in a literal world wide ban of Kratom and Phenibut?
Phenibut is more likely to be banned IMO , there’s a bit of Russian connotation that US lawmakers might capitalize on.

i feel hopeful about Kratom for some reason

And mods, if this is the wrong place for this you can put it in another sub forum.
We’re actually in the process of revamping DitM to be the center for drug policy debate/discussion so yes you’re in the right place, thanks for introducing the topic. But if this thread doesn’t get much traffic on its own I may move it to our general debate mega thread (also a work in progress), so we’ll see…
 
Phenibut is more likely to be banned IMO , there’s a bit of Russian connotation that US lawmakers might capitalize on.

i feel hopeful about Kratom for some reason


We’re actually in the process of revamping DitM to be the center for drug policy debate/discussion so yes you’re in the right place, thanks for introducing the topic. But if this thread doesn’t get much traffic on its own I may move it to our general debate mega thread (also a work in progress), so we’ll see…
Do you really think Phenibut will be banned though?

I would be just as upset if it was honestly. I love both.

The nerve of them to actually try to get them GLOBALLY banned...

I don't really understand it, but it seems like they are proposing it to the W.H.O. to bring it before the U.N. to get them banned not just in the U.S. but in the 37 different countries so it's not even about the U.S. and their perception of Phenibut as a Russian drug I don't think since it involves so many countries.

I would kind of have thought Phenibut would stand a better chance since it is already approved as a legal drug in Russia so there's medical usage we know about.

Do you have any idea when we'll know for sure whether or not they have succeeded or failed in this attempt?
 
Yeah true probably not globally. But I’d bet the DEA would like to try it in the US. I don’t recall any mention of it in the DEA annual report, but @dalpat077 would recall that detail much better than I can.

I don’t think there is any set deadline for when we’ll know. It’s basically in the hands of the bureaucracy, and you know how that goes..

It’s bedtime here, but I’ll try to do a deeper dive into some research tomorrow. I’ll admit I’m a bit ignorant to all these happenings right now
 
They are going for phenibut? I don’t see the advantage to this. Really how well can they enforce mass prohibition.. they can’t. Keep making the list longer.. think ability and funding will catch or keep up? Add them to the list and the population will add them to the Puritan wish list. In other words good luck.. lol yeah the kratom drug task force is being formed.. it’s in training right now.
 
Last edited:
They are going for phenibut? I don’t see any advantage to this. Really how well can they enforce mass prohibition.. they can’t enforce much or anything, but it still endangers more people. So it’s going for those two?
There were a whole bunch of other substances I also saw on the list they were trying to ban but I'd never heard of any of them but I bet some of you guys have. I'm kind of lazy right now but someone else could look it up when they want or maybe I'll get around to it later.
 
@Mycophile I edited that post.. when you were posting. Your right, Just banning everything at this point.. lol.. good luck with that. Because we all know the power of prohibition.. how fkn stupid can they remain??
 
@Mycophile I edited that post.. when you were posting. Your right, Just banning everything at this point.. lol.. good luck with that. Because we all know the power of prohibition.. how fkn stupid can they remain??
So you don't think they'll pull it off? I mean, how are they going to make the W.H.O. and U.N. believe Kratom and Phenibut present a GLOBAL threat??

What insanity. I would think that both orgs would have A BIT more pressing matters to worry about at a time like this...
 
^ With all the scares through the years I already have a fort and tire of it. lol F*ckem, too many of us. And I don't think there are but a few trying to create a task force. We out number them.

Flipping channels on the TV i see that guy on some news show that was head of DEA and backed off making kratom illegal in 2016. I think his name is Chuck Rosenberg. I think that was him. So I see his face and say thank you. Momentum mother f*ckers! (still in shock over that)
 
Just edited in a yahoo article to the OP. Text below


~


The Federal Drug Administration is seeking public comments on kratom, a tropical plant native to Southeast Asia, which is currently not illegal and can have “opioid-like” effects.

Due to its legality, kratom can be easily purchased around the country as a dietary supplement often used as an energy booster, mood enhancer and pain reliever. In higher doses, kratom’s affinity with opioid receptors can produce sedation and pleasure.

Scroll to continue with content
Lack of conclusive research around the plant’s safety and efficacy has launched an all-out battle between kratom advocates and federal agencies working towards regulating or banning the plant.

Is Kratom Dangerous?

According to data from the National Poison Data System, between 2011 and 2017, eleven deaths were associated with kratom use mixed with other drugs, and only two deaths were associated with pure kratom use.

According to the National Institute of Drug Abuse (NIDA), “the FDA reports that many of the kratom-associated deaths appeared to have resulted from adulterated products or taking kratom with other potent substances, including illicit drugs, opioids, benzodiazepines, alcohol, gabapentin, and over-the-counter medications, such as cough syrup.”

This evidence would suggest that regulating kratom products could work better than prohibition at alleviating kratom-related deaths.

While conclusive evidence has yet to be amassed, anecdotal reports account for the use of kratom as an herbal alternative to medical treatments in controlling withdrawal symptoms and cravings caused by opioid addiction.

According to the American Kratom Association, an advocacy group in favor of the herb’s use, “Kratom is a safe herbal supplement used by millions of Americans to manage pain, or as an alternative to coffee to help their mood and focus.”

While kratom can have opioid-like effects by partially binding to opioid receptors, the herb “does not suppress the respiratory system which is the primary cause of overdoses,” says the association’s website.

A Move To Ban Kratom Internationally?

According to the American Kratom Association, the FDA has unfairly demonized kratom since 2009, spreading “inaccurate, distorted, and, in some cases, completely false information.”

A 2018 animal study found that kratom “does not have abuse potential and reduces morphine intake” in rats. A follow-up NIDA-funded study suggested “a limited abuse liability,” marking kratom as a potential treatment to reduce opioid abuse.

While the plant remains legal, the American Kratom Association has established good manufacturing practices and labeling programs as efforts to independently regulate kratom products currently sold online and in brick-and-mortar stores.

Marijuana Moment reported that the FDA has issued a call for comments that can inform the country’s position in advance of an October meeting of the World Health Organization’s Expert Committee on Drug Dependence.

See also: BEST CBD TINCTURES

Comments can be submitted until August 9, 2021. The call for comments also encompasses six other substances including synthetic opioids and synthetic cannabinoids.

While an expert committee from the WHO will consider whether information presented during the review period may justify the scheduling of some of these substances, kratom is still in a pre-review period, meaning that the international body is conducting preliminary analysis that should not determine whether the control status of the substance should be changed.

Photo by Uomo vitruviano on WIkimedia Commons

~
 
Well we seem to be one day past the due date, but banning kratom is utterly foolish so send opinions anyway. Stupid stupid move to ban
 
I mean they have failed so many times before so i don't know if I think they can do it, but the fact they are trying to do it GLOBALLY is insane and different.

Just legalize all drugs and forget about it.
 
Ugh. I didn't want to spend $$$ on phenibut when I still have 50g left. Guess it's time to stock up... never got into kratom but I'm against all drug bans. Just sucks...
 
Horrible, while I can't and won't blame the people, I always disliked American politics. Not the only, but one primary point is the drug legislation. People here in MX tell me that without American approval, no president or legislation would be sustainable. That's dictatorism. Also quite ironic that some US states were among the first territories to de facto legalize marijuana and the EU, mostly wanting to play good dog, took over the lead in banning novel substances. No pharm company wants to invest in drugs which won't sell in the USA when the hoops for approval are HUGE but they do nothing against enantiomer purified or now deuterated me too analogue drugs.

What the fuck did kratom? Companies afraid of loosing money? Then they shouldn't have cracked down on oxycodone and all'd be happy. Just proud of the - too internationally applied - ban of cocaine when world leader in soda processes the leaves? I don't buy every conspiracy theory but (afaik) there's evidence of high profile guys / FDA being involved in drug trade, no?

But kratom is lousy. Dysphoric. Made me rather using stims again to replenish my dopamine instead of drinking this stuff every day even when it doesn't taste so bad at all. We just have nothing better readily available.
 
Well it looks like the AKA won their lawsuit against the FDA to re-open the comment period so that's a REALLY good thing so EVERYONE who likes Kratom and wants it to stay legal should go to their website and sign and leave comments about why it should stay legal!

I think that's a good sign they may not pull it off.
 
Horrible, while I can't and won't blame the people, I always disliked American politics. Not the only, but one primary point is the drug legislation. People here in MX tell me that without American approval, no president or legislation would be sustainable. That's dictatorism. Also quite ironic that some US states were among the first territories to de facto legalize marijuana and the EU, mostly wanting to play good dog, took over the lead in banning novel substances. No pharm company wants to invest in drugs which won't sell in the USA when the hoops for approval are HUGE but they do nothing against enantiomer purified or now deuterated me too analogue drugs.

What the fuck did kratom? Companies afraid of loosing money? Then they shouldn't have cracked down on oxycodone and all'd be happy. Just proud of the - too internationally applied - ban of cocaine when world leader in soda processes the leaves? I don't buy every conspiracy theory but (afaik) there's evidence of high profile guys / FDA being involved in drug trade, no?

But kratom is lousy. Dysphoric. Made me rather using stims again to replenish my dopamine instead of drinking this stuff every day even when it doesn't taste so bad at all. We just have nothing better readily available.
Well you might not like Kratom but I LOVE IT.

And of course our drug laws suck in the U.S. and we are unfortunately the ones who started the war on drugs (it was really that asshole Harry J. Anslinger) but still our drug laws are better than some.

I'm in New York and we FINALLY have legal weed here and will have dispensaries in 2022 and in Oregon (or maybe just Portland? Not sure) ALL drugs are legal now, and at least we don't have the death penalty for drugs like places like Malaysia and Indonesia.

Most of the world sucks when it comes to drug laws, not just us.
 
in Oregon (or maybe just Portland? Not sure) ALL drugs are legal now
All drugs are decriminalized in Oregon, not fully legal

you won’t go to prison for personal use amounts. You can either pay a fine or visit with an addiction counselor IIRC.

that’s different than regulated sale of all substances. As far as I know, nowhere in the world has fully legalized all psychoactive drugs
 
All drugs are decriminalized in Oregon, not fully legal

you won’t go to prison for personal use amounts. You can either pay a fine or visit with an addiction counselor IIRC.

that’s different than regulated sale of all substances. As far as I know, nowhere in the world has fully legalized all psychoactive drugs
Ok I stand corrected.

That's stupid they'd even make you pay a fine or see a counselor for a personal amount of any kind of drug. I'm guessing they wouldn't for weed but could for other things, but really that's not a big deal so long as the fine isn't too big.

In terms of actually selling the substances, well obviously you would need some kind of license I'd think because otherwise you could be evading taxes, just like selling liquor without a liquor license, but i'd hope you wouldn't get in trouble for the selling of drugs for the sake of it, but rather the tax dodging issue.

I have heard that they are already working on legal psychedelic counseling centers over there where you CAN legally buy and take things like Shrooms, DMT, MDMA and Ayahuasca.

So i mean, that's about as good as it's gonna get, meaning if you are not just going around selling all kinds of drugs and are just a user then you are not going to face any real significant consequences of any kind.

I definitely do think they need to get rid of the dumb fine/see a counselor thing, then just have licensed sellers for any and all substances like with liquor, ONLY for the simple purpose of making sure everything is done by the books.
 
Top