There is no real point in life.

[Soul Garden]

Before you start reading this, I want you to know that this is not meant to be depressing in any way. It's not a, "Why should I live when there's no point in life?" thread... It's my own little philosophy I've made that many people don't seem to understand so far.
When I say there is no point in life, I say there is absolute freedom. There is no point or expectation to live up to. The point in life is not to be happy, to please religious figures, to live life in general, etc... This is simply because there is no point in life. To believe there is an actual point in life is to put limitations and restrictions on it. Every being is absolutely free. Free to act chaoticly, free to show random behavior with no real meaning, free to make any choice, free to fulfill any dream, free to do anything...
I also say this because there is no exact reason or point for anything existing. Let's discuss a planet like Jupiter or Pluto. These of course, are not living things. A similarity though, is that they are made of matter, just like living things. Do these planets have a point? No. They're there just because they are. Here comes somewhat of a mind fuck. Does matter really have a point? No. Once again, it's just there. It exists. We are a conscious form of matter with no real point. We're here because we are.
We don't have an expectation or point to live up to. Therefore, we are completely free and can do whatever we want. We live a pointless life in a pointless universe. This is not sad or depressing though. It is not negative, nor is it positive. It is neutral. I will simply state again. There is no point. And without a point, there are no restrictions or limitations on life or within the wonderful universe we live in.

 

[swilow]

Nihilism?

 

[What 23]

That's what we were supposed to realize on/about 12/21/2012. That's what the whole zero point was about. Sort of. Not really.

On topic/serious though: I would say you might be right, up to a point (ha...).

No but really, you do not have total freedom, really. And really, you are quite robotic.

A. You do not have total freedom: In order to function and keep functioning needs must be met. Needs which are requirements which are dependent on other needs and etc sew on. You're locked in. If you want to do anything if you want freedom you need to be in the system. So yea, there is a point.

B. You are robotic: You are a slave. You can try to convince youself otherwise, and you may simply not have the recognition to know it, but going back to A., you need things. And those things need things. In order to go, there must be a point, to go to. The closest there can be to no point is it you just give up completely, and reject the system totally, and die. But even then, you move with a point.

Maybe life is to have a point? A goal. Maybe that goal is ambiguous. But ultimately for life and existence to exist it should have a point that lends itself to self perpetuation. This could be said to be locked into the nature of existence itself.

You were born in chains.
You aren't getting out of them...
Unless you can escape death and master the universe/make it your beeatch.

 

[realtalkloc]

if you think beautiful people like Jessica Alba just suddenly came into being without any creator by them, then you are lost the way many other people are, and in order to learn about your creator you must turn to religious scripture. No other way.

 

[Abject]

^ lol

 

[Soul Garden]

I like the link for nihilsm and I like "what 23's" answer. I refuse to see myself as robotic or slave like. Those people are the people who follow trends and let things like mass media make decisions for them. These are people who kiss the ass of authority and believe they are bound by laws and rules, which are man made illusions. I like your point(no pun intended) though, what 23. You have a really good point actually. I definitely need to meet requirements and needs to continue living. We all do. We can choose not to meet those requirements and needs though
Realtalkloc - What are you on, mate?
Abject - How do you feel about this theory or "nihilism"?

 

[Abject]

I don't really care for your theory. There's no inherent point to existence? Sure. Does this mean we're unable to create a subjective point? Or even objective, in relation to the current state of affairs.
Just because a tree and I are made of the same core stuff it doesn't make us similar. Existence having no purpose doesn't mean you can't hold yourself (and others) to a standard, to expectations.
I'm not sure how I feel about free-will; we are in control but we don't control ourselves. If I were to have to pick a side, I would say we lack control more than we're in control.

I'm a nihilist myself, but I don't tell people that. It has a bad reputation and the general population are misinformed/view it badly. I'm a bit pessimistic, and I don't see this as an inherently bad quality either, but most do.

I found a little something for you:

What do values, knowing and communication have in common? Each relies on us representing our world or parts of it with symbols. A symbol uses a part of the whole to communicate the whole, and depends on its audience knowing enough about the topic to know what the symbol represents. Even our memories are stored in symbolic form such that we recall a summary or a conclusion, but not the whole of what is going on. Many of us can remember the end result of a conversation in a room; few can remember the steps of conversation, or all of the objects in the room.

Nihilism is a rejection of the "false world" of symbols, memories and the "knowing" of others. When we say all values are baseless, we mean they are a choice and there is no writing on the wall or Word of God or scientific "proof" which can justify them. The world does not tell us what to believe; the world just is. Nothing is inherent and we cannot prove that some value or truth is inherent. We can only elect to believe them.

 

[Soul Garden]

Abject - I like the read you posted. The more you know

 

[-=SS=-]

I get where you're coming from OP, and I both agree and disagree with what you said.

I think there is a point to 'all of this' but it's difficult for us to see it because we're wrapped up in the game of life. You know how it's always easier to see the major flaws in other people but when it comes to yourself.. ha, we're masters of denial and ignorance of what is plainly obvious to others about ourselves. So the same is true with humanity itself. We have this continuing assumption that we are/ top dogs of organic life on this planet and have constructed a fancy cosmological tale to justify our current behaviors, when in fact we are part of a process much grander than we can know, in the same way the cells that constitute our body have no idea what purpose they are helping to fulfill.

We clearly are robotic. Again we love to deny the obvious and think of ourselves as complex mystical creatures, but we're just robots with thousands of pattern reactions. No different from the fly that lands on the table and jitters about with its movements.. calculated, reactionary, machine like.

But in terms of a point? Our purpose is no different from other life.. reproduce and then provide food for other organisms with our waste, and eventually our corpse too. So in relation to society and humanity.. no, there is no point.. you make it what you make it, or what others make it for you (which is like 99% of people). It's all games and fairy tales. But in relation to the Universe and beyond that, I definitely think there is a point to all of this but it might not be what you want it to be. Like the cow or the chicken in the coop, our purpose may be far less glitzy than what we've constructed down through the ages.

Life just happens to us. The only way to have new meaning is give yourself new meaning through doing, through becoming something less than a robot.. which is basically what the philosophical/spiritual path is about.. finding ways to interrupt the programming for a moment and throwing in a new problem to the computer/brain, such as, Who or what am I? So I disagree with your statement about freedom and being free. I think it's quite the opposite.. we are far more enslaved than we realize, and those who protest their freedom are usually the most enslaved of all.

 

[Shrooms00087]

Of course there is no "point" to it. It just happened, and we can get destroyed by the universe in a multitude of ways. However, there is a purpose behind life that is devoid of a point. There is no reason behind us having any sort of purpose or forming any society or even keeping society together. However the purpose to do and sustain these things overshadow the question of "primary cause of life" because there is none. We build onto ourselves with purpose.

 

[ComfortablyNumb95]

We clearly are robotic. Again we love to deny the obvious and think of ourselves as complex mystical creatures, but we're just robots with thousands of pattern reactions. No different from the fly that lands on the table and jitters about with its movements.. calculated, reactionary, machine like.

beings that can produce beautiful things such as music, visual art and literature are complex imho
it is true that we react following certain patterns, but everything in the universe acts like that. (that i know of course, if someone can correct me I'd be very glad )

 

[-=SS=-]

beings that can produce beautiful things such as music, visual art and literature are complex imho
it is true that we react following certain patterns, but everything in the universe acts like that. (that i know of course, if someone can correct me I'd be very glad )

But one shouldn't assume that just because we appear complex (to ourselves) that we are somehow not robotic and gifted with divine imagination. I don't know about literature and language, but music and visual art definitely have their roots in geometry, geometry that is inherent in nature and the mechanics of this universe.. but when it comes to producing art and music I think a lot of it is still essentially mechanical. However, I do believe that through the mind we can tap into this "divine imagination" and access patterns that no one else has channeled into this world yet. Essentially this means I believe that all patterns exist as a potential in some sort of unmanifested domain and that these can be brought forth into physical reality.

This might sound slightly drab but it doesn't depreciate the art and music I love. If anything it makes it more poignant and touching in a much deeper way than I had considered before.

Trying to bring this back around to the topic, one could suggest that art and music should help facilitate a connection with this mystery, and that in terms of a point to life one could devote themselves to making transcendental creations in order to help mankind find its roots again. Or maybe this is the wine talking, I don't know.

 

[Foreigner]

The only thing happening is right now. You can choose to see a point to it or not. It is only "me" that causes contraction. When "me" is put aside, there is an inherent happening that's being done despite any doer. You aren't doing anything.

During intense suffering I may pray to God while I am crying, with the full knowledge that all I'm doing is creating an extreme 'other' that is more grandios and omnipotent than myself so that I can extract some kind of comfort and reassurance. But my body needs this... so I do it anyway. When Jesus was on the cross he said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" And likewise it is said that a camel can be more easily put through the eye of a needle than have a rich man turn toward Heaven. These statements are all about ego and how it has to die. Jesus said the Father and I are one, yet he asks about why "me" has been forsaken on the cross. It's all ego death baby.

There really is no point apart from the one that you make. You can create any construct, knowing full well it means nothing. That doesn't mean you should cease doing anything. You are still this animal body, you still possess intellectual faculties, and you can still relate; but the only difference between the pure Empty vessel that is doing it and someone who is freaking out about whether or not Emptiness is real, is mind. While mind is creating things to hold onto, Emptiness is there silently being. While the mind asks how to achieve stillness, there is already stillness happening. It never goes anywhere.

Ego death is so necessary to transcend suffering. It doesn't mean you won't suffer anymore, it means there would be an imbibed acknowledgement that there is nothing in there to experience the suffering. Unfortunately, in my case, it's not just ego death, it's ego being tortured to death.

It would be really great if they made a movie where the main character just quietly dies, and there is no explanation. Nothing next, no mourning, no nothing. That would be epic. Seems like every system that humans have thought of so far is to give ego something to do. I love Buddhism because it turns people into wonderful human beings, but even the idea of merit and karma is to give mind the idea that it can do certain things to be in control. Even at the time of death, a time of supreme letting go, they expect you to be doing something to achieve enlightenment.

There is nothing that needs doing, and it's wonderful.

 

[Zerrr]

IMO

There may be a point if somehow you could get every human to understand each other.

I basically hold the same view, somewhere in the Nihilism/Solipsism/Existentialism range.

Unless J.Krishnamurti and Bill Hicks are actually right...

 

[Ninae]

More like there are too many and you have no chance of covering all.

 

[malakaix]

Soul Garden.. I just wish to say thankyou for this thread, it's very refreshing to know that someone else also has an understanding of this.

When I say there is no point in life, I say there is absolute freedom. There is no point or expectation to live up to. The point in life is not to be happy, to please religious figures, to live life in general, etc... This is simply because there is no point in life. To believe there is an actual point in life is to put limitations and restrictions on it. Every being is absolutely free. Free to act chaoticly, free to show random behavior with no real meaning, free to make any choice, free to fulfill any dream, free to do anything...

I could not agree more, and i see existence in the exact same view. It's liberating to realize this.. that accepting and acknowledging the pointlessness of life liberates you from every and all restrictions and your thrown into the chaos of everything.. a great sense of freedom; some days i think about the simplicity of this and it makes me laugh that i allow life to stress me out so much.. and on the same token, it makes me question 'how can i apply meaning and purpose to my existence?'

This is the real question here, because your now within a free domain to define and create value where you see fit..

And i personally have no idea how to do this.. i have been stuck in 'limbo' for years. I see the world as chaotic, beautiful and meaningless with moments of supreme catharsis.

 

[Zerrr]

More like there are too many and you have no chance of covering all.

Ha, yes, unless I created them..

op's topic doesn't differ much from Existentialism...Existence precedes essence

 

[pmoseman]

This repeats some of what was said above, maybe it will spark ideas, or not.

Many things have purpose: pigs and chickens, bacteria and yeast, cars and sunglasses. The dead things are subject to laws of matter, nothing more, but why do the living things choose to do what they do? We put microbes in the warm environment they enjoy, serving our purpose, but even after you have eaten that fat pig and taken your own life out of serious depression, those little bacteria seem to think being alive is a great idea and are more than happy to utilize all that energy you have consumed to help themselves to being alive.

So why do they? Are we content to believe bacteria understand a deep and rich tapestry of meaning, while we fail to see the purpose of it all? Surely, we are the brighter of the two.

We may have a purpose for something larger, but not for ourselves. Neither thing is what keeps us going. The universe has a purpose for us, we are here to accelerate entropy, we are destroying ourselves, like yeast in the oven, but not before we complete the task and if we are lucky, all get eaten. In the truly big scheme of things, our years are so many minutes on an oven dial. Not real inspiring or meaningful, yet we trudge on.

Well... that is, if the universe has an actual boundary (which there can never be evidence of). Why would the universe (all known existence) just want to speed up entropy and destroy itself, as soon as possible. Seems a noble task, if you think of it like wanting to sleep, possibly be reborn, to be left alone, to be without pain. Not because it lacks any real purpose. But being dead then does not quench anything.

Viewing ourselves, we see that we do not control whether or not we are alive, we are born without any choice in the matter, and we get put in an environment with these maniacs, for whatever other purpose, that is not easily known. I am simply curious, why I would say revenge is one purpose of my whole life. In so much, as I want to feel like I have a choice. I want my choice to affect something larger than me. I want to know what that larger something is, what its purpose for me is, and how much control I have, and why it wants me alive or dead, because it doesn't feel like I have any control. Even if I could know, it doesn't feel like I can, I might turn out to be my own worse enemy. I may find out I am being kept alive for some evil, myself.

The purpose of doing work or creating work, to stay alive... and to hell with whatever the bigger picture may or may not be. This kind of purpose is directed inward, toward solving a problem like boredom, which can end up killing you, or protecting your skin from herpes or something. The work then has a purpose to simply keep us alive and comfortable. To keep our family unit alive. Simply being alive is very rewarding, in my opinion. This goes beyond simply existing, it goes into exploration and having those moments of joy that you experience by waiting around for them.

You don't need to be a human to experience being around, you could just be a brick. They exist, probably pretty cool... being a brick, to have no purpose of life beyond being a brick... or in a vegetative state. A brick being "dead" doesn't see the point of "living" either, maybe something else saw the point of it being dead, which was likely a human accomplishment, really, probably some forest fire we started 50,000 years ago. Then again, there is no particular reason that we became alive, for ourselves, in the meanwhile we think there is a purpose, and that is why we are still keeping ourselves alive... and why we are such useful little agents of destruction for whatever created us.

We have a purpose and nothing is going to a better job of telling itself it has a purpose than us. Kind of the reverse of what one might expect, or the inside out. There is almost a competition inside of me for finding purpose. With it I could acheive and control, without it I am wasting time and possibly being set up for some horrible death. What purpose am I fulfilling, in a survival sense, is a very vital question. I think the impulse for an irrational purpose comes out of nature and survival, and seeking our true purpose and convincing others they have a purpose is a really great for survival. Then the desire to "end it all" is just a gambit nature plays, which sometimes back-fires. After all, I seem to be accepting that life has no purpose, why should that even matter to us? Accepting that life doesn't have a purpose but deciding to go ahead anyway and hopefully eventually you will run into something unexpected. That's life, it is weird, but why would I want to kill myself? No purpose. Brick. All knowing, all powerful brick. You can just go on happily being a brick in all this chaos. The brick was... miniscule, unimportant, he found there was more to see, more important, intelligent, beautiful things out there than being a brick, and whether we actively choose to be "dead" or "alive" we stand a slightly better chance not to get eaten like a universal loaf of bread; so we create life.

There is definitely something going on. It doesn't matter how we got to this point... exactly, but we are now aware of a vast universe that we are not equipped to even explore. It is just crazy how much variety of how much stuff there is. If you want to call exploration a purpose, that is fine, I'll just hang around until something comes up, and dream secretly of revenge.

 

[Zerrr]

Great post pmose..

One of the many things that keeps me going is...

I want Neuroscience to explain why us humans have this biological need to compete and survive, not only what is going on in the brain, but why some of us can (seemingly) overcome it and become what we refer to as "enlightened".

I used to tell people you explain things to yourself, you understand them, and then you grow/evolve but that is just philosophy, and (afaik) according to the elite of Academia 'Philosophy is dead'.

 

[Foreigner]

This conversation is too intellectual and mind based. I know that's true of philosophy as a whole, but it really applies to this particular topic. All that really exists is this given moment... why make it anymore complicated than that? "Life" beyond this moment is anyone's guess. It's always been that way. The "point" is Empty because it constantly changes. In this moment I'm eating cereal because I'm hungry, and I'm typing on an internet forum as some sort of recreation. Those are the purposes being served in this moment. At some point I will probably go to bed, and that moment's purpose will be to achieve rest. If you ask any given person what the meaning of life is at any given moment, you'll engage their mind, and then they'll just go back to doing whatever it was they were doing before you asked -- tasks that are devoid of some kind of "higher" meaning until you tried assigning one. Do you see how this is a mind-based question only that is actually quite irrelevant to anything going on in the present moment?

If you're looking for one, permanent, fixed point of purpose to life as a whole, I doubt you're going to find one. Everything about this existence is impermanent. Just when you think you've found a point to it all, the perspective is liable to shift again... maybe in 5 minutes, maybe 5 years, or maybe at the point of your death. Who's to say? Either way... this is verbal masturbation. Without mind applying its controlling terms and contractile "me" to every moment, the moment is just happening. It is empty of purpose aside from what you assign to it. It can also have no purpose at all, and that's just fine.

Why must everything mean something for us to feel okay about it? A rock doesn't need a purpose, neither does a mountain, a river, a fish, or a deer. They just do what they do, so do you. Isn't just sitting with the splendor of the present moment enough? Trying to project beyond that is one big headache.