• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist

The Vegetarian Debate: is a meat-free lifestyle healthier?

Just thought i'd throw this out there....

"Human evolutionary history clearly shows that we are primarily herbivores. Human saliva contains alpha-amylase, an enzyme specifically designed to break down complex carbohydrates into sugar compounds. Our teeth are designed to cut vegetable matter and to grind grains. The so-called canine teeth of humans bear no resemblance to the canines of even a domestic house cat. The human digestive system is long, and the food is processed slowly to extract all the nutrients from plant material. Conversely, carnivores have short digestive tracts that digest flesh very quickly. The digestive systems of carnivores are able to eliminate the large amount of cholesterol consumed in their diets, and carnivores do not have alpha-amylase present in their saliva"

So therefore, evolutionally speaking, are we all destined to be vegetarians, or at least predominantly (say 80/20) vegetarian?
 
^^ Besides, 25% of caucasians and 75% of blacks are lactose intolerant (not able to break down milk). Our bodies weren't designed to process animal tissue, which is why research indicates that meat-eaters are more at a risk of colon cancer. Animal products contain no complex carbs or fiber.. It contains things that are made for carnivores, which ends up rotting in our colon because we're not compatible. The cholesterol also clogs in our arteries. Also, Natural meat-eaters never develop atherosclerosis, no matter how much saturated fat and cholesterol they consume—this is the disease that kills almost as many human beings in the industrialized world as all other causes of death combined.

http://www.goveg.com/feat/ns-health.html
 
StagnantReaction said:
^^ Besides, 25% of caucasians and 75% of blacks are lactose intolerant (not able to break down milk). Our bodies weren't designed to process animal tissue

so...what's the point of having enzymes for breaking down meat and milk? humans do have those enzymes ya know...
 
StagnantReaction said:
^^ , Natural meat-eaters never develop atherosclerosis, no matter how much saturated fat and cholesterol they consume—this is the disease that kills almost as many human beings in the industrialized world as all other causes of death combined.

http://www.goveg.com/feat/ns-health.html

Stag, I really hate arguing with you because I am in so much agreement with your motives.

I guess I have to look at this as giving you food for thought (pun intended), so you can refine your arguments to make them most effective.=D

I think you could make a case for the American Indians not having any problems with saturated fat and cholesterol. Reason being once again, low fat, grass fed meat.

Also there is alot of research out there now comming to the forefront in the health food industry, that polyunsaturates are a main factor in aging and degenerative disease. Which would make sense for those adhearing to the free radical theory of aging and death.

There are studies on both sides of this issue Stag, I just want to make you aware of that.

Also there is very strong evidence to support the health benefits of saturated fats. A good example is all the great press that coconut oil is getting right now as an amazing health food.

Once again, where I got yer back is on the animal rights issue.:)
 
SLM, so you know, lots of Kellog's cereals have a good amount of vit B12 in them and as your body stores it and only needs a very small amount a day, we're generally alright with it. Marmite's a great source too which is good since it's so nice.

It's nice to see a thread on vegetarianism that hasn't descended into name calling and pictures of steaks for once. At the end of the day, the effects from vegan to meat eating diets really aren't THAT much - if you generally eat in moderation and varied foods.

But as a vegan I don't consume cholesterol at all, am 30% less likely to have heart diseaase and have nothing hanging round in my colon for over a few weeks. I've found I need less sleep and have more energy if eating well and seem to be more sensitive to the effects of chemicals entering my body. I do have an overall feeling of lightnesss and as though my system is working quickly and with ease but that could just as well be totally psychological.

It did take a little while to adjust to becoming vegan as I only spent a month as a vegetarian before making the final step. I spent 2 weeks coughing up phlegm and having a runny nose. This was the mucus that dairy products make you produce more of so it was a sure sign that things were changing. I've now been vegan for over 5 years and don't feel like it's caused any real problens at all. In fact, I enjoy food more now than I ever have due to having a finer palate and a much greater interested in food overall.
 
A true story by someone else;

That
chilly day in December, 2001 when I first heard X speak, I had no idea
that I was entering upon the most important phase of my life. An “earth shaking”,
“mind-blowing”, “life altering”, reason for being!! After the seminar my new
friend and I celebrated our meeting and sharing of experiences by going to
my favorite restaurant for dinner. I remember enjoying a Mai sandwich, little
did I know that this delicacy would fade into nonexistence for me. I remember
giggling about where we were headed – “Beautiful Fountains of Youth!” It all
seemed so easy – they would just give us these alignments and we would meditate,
bring in these rays and then (like a Fairy God Mother had waved her magic
wand – Poof, we would have our beautiful bods – sure sounded good to me).
I
went home and did all of the things that I believed would help me become the
person that deserved such a wonderful gift as the “Fountain of Youth”. It
all seemed a bit grandiose, but it still had a ring of the strangely familiar,
so I worked harder at eating the right foods, you know – less red meat and
more veggies. It wasn’t too long and the instructions changed to, “stop eating
meat”. I thought, “I can do that!” (by now I realized that this was serious
business and that this was God’s Business!). I observed the people around
me – some were also overweight and some were older (like me). Being 55, I
knew that I would have to observe the rules more carefully than a young twenty
something person, so I dug in and quit the “meat thing”. I remember a conversation
with another attendee. “I bet that cheese is going to be eliminated soon”.
Sure enough….. NO ANIMAL PRODUCTS!! By then, we were so set on the path that
it seemed as if it was the natural thing to eliminate! Since the whole idea
of the diet is to eliminate animal products from our bodies we have also added
fasting to our lives. Being of sound mind and cells full of animal products,
I decided that I had better get busy and push the garbage out.
Now
the crunch: where, oh where are the vegan restaurants when you want them??
I live in a small California town – far from the vegan restaurants. I first
tried the veggie burgers (forget that). I found a Thai restaurant that served
a mean vegetable curry. After several trips there I found out that they used
chicken broth to make the sauce. I have become much more vigilant with my
choices of food, for I realize that , “what goes in – must come out!”. I have
come to adore the waitresses who honor me with their thoughtfulness and willingness
to find a vegan item on the menu. Or the owner of a small Chinese buffet who
thoughtfully went through the different dishes and checked the ingredients
only to come back to me and say, “I am so sorry, but I don’t have anything
that is made without animal products”. I could have hugged him.
When
working to ascend and lose animalistic thoughts and actions I also began to
see more clearly my animalistic food habits. Even though I am a strict vegan
I have to work on portion control and remember that food does not equate with
happiness. As most people, I equate food with good times; when growing up
we always had lots of delicious food to gather around at meal time.
This
spring when I was visiting in L.A. we stopped at a little Falafal restaurant.
I scanned the menu on the wall and asked about the vegetarian dishes. Although
the communication was not the best the man behind the counter said “yes, it
is all vegetables. As I thought about the choices he jovially reached into
the greasy pile of deep fat fried potatoes and handed me a huge grease laden
slice of potato. I remembered the deep fat fried potatoes that my Mom used
to make and smiled, bit, chewed. Somewhere in my brain I expected to feel
my Mother’s arms around me, instead the old familiar grease gathered on the
top of my mouth. I hurridly chewed, bit again, chewed and gulped the huge
potato slice. As it went down I regretted my action. While swallowing I asked
“what is the oil that you fry them in? He replied “Natural”. I said like…like…
“pig grease?”, he said, “yes, yes, natural!”. Now, why didn’t I ask that question
before I bit? Was it maybe because I knew the answer and really wanted to
taste that “pig grease?” I even fleetingly thought about running to the bathroom
and trying to retrieve the “pig grease”. No, just remember that 50 + years
of animalistic living does not go away over night. I was disgusted with myself,
but now I smile and remember that I still have a ways to go in eliminating
old habits. I have found that for me changing my diet and fasting has been
the easiest part of working towards ascension. I guess that I like the strictness
and the challenge of “staying the course”. Of course, there is so much more
to my ascension than just what I put (or don’t put) into my mouth. We each
approach our individual challenges with courage and faith. Faith that we are
moving forward (with the help of our friends) and courage to get back up after
we stumble. I decided that every bite counts and the stakes (not steaks) are
really high, so therefore if someone tells you that just a little bit of animal
in our body won’t kill you. My answer would be “oh, yes it may”.
 
amnesiaseizure said:
SLM, so you know, lots of Kellog's cereals have a good amount of vit B12 in them and as your body stores it and only needs a very small amount a day, we're generally alright with it. Marmite's a great source too which is good since it's so nice.


Vegemite's better ;) (Aussie here).

So true - supplements and enriched foods are god's gift to vegetarians :) They should use them; because damned if I see how they're going to get enough iron (in particular) otherwise. Particularly women, who need four times as much iron as men under normal circumstances, never mind things like vegetarianism or pregnancy.

Some facts, as I have researched this topic extensively:

* 27% of vegetarian women in Australia are biochemically anaemic - and that's only those who present to doctors. As it is, 70% of women (regardless of vegetarianism) in Australia don't get enough iron in their daily diet.

* Lean red meat is unquestionably the most superior source of biovailable haem iron:

http://www.ironpanel.org.au/AIS/AISdocs/adultdocs/Aphysiology.html

(note the difference in absorbtion levels between spinach and lean steak)

And here, including some non-haem (vegetable iron) sources for comparison:

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/iron.asp#h2

Vitamin C increases the availability of non-haem iron in the body, but not to nearly the extent that it matches haem iron. Say, if soy beans alone gave 8% available iron, eating broccoli with them might increase the iron content to 12%. Not 20%, like piece of steak.

Now I'm just saying be careful guys (well, especially girls!) and be vigilant about getting enough of this important mineral. Every female vegetarian should probably be getting her iron levels checked regularly and taking a (liquid, chelated) supplement if necessary.
 
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I became a vegetarian about 2/3 years ago now, and I'm not entirely sure I've noticed much change. I wouldn't say I'm any worse off now, although I did have two illnesses that put me on my back for a while, that I didn't seem to get as bad when I was eating meating but that could have been any number of factors and 2 illnesses (one exam stress related, so really one) is hardly indiciative of how my diets affected me.

It's a lot harder to prepare food your self so I've learnt an awful lot about cooking, which was a nice side effect. Some days I really, really fancy meat andI think this "sacrifice" as it were has a slight affect on my happiness levels, but then if I were eating with guilt they'd go down too. I'm really slim and reasonbly toned, I want to put on a bit of weight but again it's a lot harder to eat a plate full of mushrooms and eggs for protein than it is a nice tin of tuna.

Ahhh sweet meet!
 
Actually one thing I really have noticed is my bones crack now and I swear they never used to.

I also think when I'm having a bad day that would meat would make more:

a: more productive
b: less lazy
c: more able to respond intelligently

And all the stuff on how fishes do omega3 brain juice gets me down but tbh, I think I'm just a lazy get with or without meat :)

Arent the red hot chillis vegans? theyre awesome.
 
i have been a vegetarian for 2 decades and have no health problems. i really like meat, but i find that after eating it my mind and body become sluggish, not to mention smelly! i have no iron deficiency and i am female.
an analysis of a food may show a breakdown of contents, but that is not the whole story. for example, red meat may contain a lot of nutrients, but because it is digested in the stomach in a small time period, most of the nutrients hit the uptake receptors simultaneously. a lot of nutrients never get absorbed. B12 is actually produced in the stomach provided your diet includes plenty of fresh plant foods and their enzymes. A healthy body without deficiencies can make all the EFA derivatives it needs when supplied with linolenic and linoleic acid. with a little education it is entirely possible to get all nutrients required from non-animal sources.
people like to eat meat because it increases dopamine production. this is where people who eat meat get their energy from, not increased nutrient intake.
our systems were not designed to deal with the large amounts of acids that red meat releases into the blood. this is why red meat consumption is linked to kidney stones.
All carnivores and omnivores on this planet produce vitamin c in their bodies to compensate for these acids. Humans, and a small handful of fruit-only eating bats, birds, monkeys and marsupials do not. clearly the fundamentals of our physiology were laid down during a long period of vegetarian evolution. That we eat meat now will not change that.
 
Nutrition of meat = Sunlight,water,earth + slowly digested doe eyed loving earth creature + clogging bowels with putrefactive sewerage + karma of animal + karma of eating the animal +proven health detriments...
 
Come on, That doe is also eaten by other animals, why aren't you condemming them.

The putrefactive sewerage, comes from your mind.

You don't know what plants feel. Ever read -The Secret Life of Plants?

Why don't you come up with something concrete, and quit the political hate mail.

Your post reminds me of a religious zelot.
 
Shalom!

C'mon U.R.B.4.U.R., are you having a bad day or something and you decided to pick on me? , well that won't work, because the more you flame or troll, the more love, compassion and forgiveness I shall have for you. You have been on this board for one month (compared to my 4yrs plus, you are a dear newbie) and according to that you seem to want to just mostly abuse me. Well at Bluelight, I am proud to say we generally attempt to work on higher principles than unmitigated negative criticism. We come from a place of empathy and peace and meaningful dialogue, helping us all evolve to a "better" state of existence. A state that we already are we just need to be true to our heart to see it. :)
I am encouraging compassion, common sense, and wisdom. I have read that book you mentioned and its sequel. I do highly recommend them. They are totally awesome. They start off in a very grounded scientific manner, then in the end prove that fairies exist. A very wonderful and highly commendable work indeed.
I am not the other animals, I do not need to eat meat to survive,and I have an intelligence and instinct that says to me it best not to eat meat.This is being constantly reiterated by scentific lterature as well as anecdotal evidence.
I have been studying Vegetarianism and Natural Health & Hygiene for at least a decade; I know a lot about the subjects.
I Do know what plants feel, I am an organic gardener of more than 14years in duration.
It is true that the mind can neutralize toxins throgh certain thought pathways, I agree; however my statement was more in reference to our physiology not being able to cope so well with a diet consisting of products that are further away from the photonic energy of sunlight, combined with the karma involved in the livestock agricultural industries.
I have information harder than concrete (the best may yet to be of present apparent recognition) however it is never intended as "politcal hate" as you may puzzlingly call it; It come from the land of truth,science,instinct and PLUR because I am a loving Kandy Raver.
:)
You are right in that I am a religous zealot. I am zealous about health, happiness and wellbeing for all of earth and its inhabitants.
Zealot(spelt with an a, by the way) is defined by
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=zealot
as
A fanatically committed person
and that I proudly am, to the principles of pure sparkling health achieved through best practices.
Peace be with you, and may you and all beings believe what they want to believe in the highest freedom possible.
:)
 
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Yeah, Sorry I did get angry there. Too much ego goin on.

If you notice from my other posts I am not anti-vegitarian. I have spent over 20 years in the natural foods industry. I know alot I guess also. I have been a vegitarian also at one time.

But here's the thing Ocean, I don't like people telling me I'm polluting myself with meat when it is just not a proven fact.

The American Indians lived on meat, I think did very well on it. It was lean, grass fed, and provided them with exactally what they needed to live.

Now lets compare that with Grain fattened meats, Maybe GMO, lots of hormones, antibiotics, stress from inhumane living conditions. And you have something very unhealthy. Now you can do the same thing to fruits grains and vegatables and they are. Very unhealthy also.

I try to be fair about the debate. Really I'm against eating meat on humane grounds. But I have seen sick vegitarians get well on meat and I have seen meat eaters sick, get well on a veg, diet.

It isn't black or white Oceanboy. I'm very sorry I got hot under the collar. There is no excuse for it and you have every right to call me on it. I'm sorry.

I did feel attacked by your statements. And I don't believe them. Still that doesn't mean I am totally at odds with you. I know my outburst makes it seem that way. I also have been an organic gardener for over 30 years.

I'm lucky enough to have a source of grass fed organic meat for me and my dog. These animals aren't stressed or tortured. I'm in my 50s and I look and feel in my 30s. I'm alot healthier than many vegatarians I work with and sell to. I fast, I eat mostly organic veg, and fruit, dairy and some small amount of meat.

Every one in my family lives to be 80 to 100 on meat. They are mostly healthy right up until the end.

Once again Ocean I am sorry for flaming you. It's not a loving thing to do and that's much more important than whos right or wrong here. Thanks for letting me know. I will take this as a good lesson and you as my teacher here. Peace.
 
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