Bagseed
Bluelighter
if they pussy out (which I hope they do), I am already looking forward to the outrage
The UK in the EU: "Brexit"
- Thread starter spacejunk
- Start date
StoneHappyMonday
Bluelighter
- Joined
- May 10, 2001
- Messages
- 18,084
As brilliant a post it is that Eschers quoted, it is but a post from CIF in the Guardian and lovely as it sounds, it ain't reality. Reality is "Remain" lost and the article 50 button will be pushed.
They are gutless. They are a gutless party in my gutless country.
TBH, Cameron virtually cried when he resigned. I couldn't even enjoy that. These are horrible, horrible days to be in the UK amongst a majority (yes, a majority, good for them) of stupid people. The longer it went on, the more divided the country got. We scratched the surface and we found mass racism. It might have been occasionally dressed up in 'sovereignty', but it's basically racism. The right to make "our laws" to have "our country back". Twitter, tumblr et al are full of stories this weekend of Blacks, Asians, Polish etc being harassed and told to go back home.
They are gutless. They are a gutless party in my gutless country.
TBH, Cameron virtually cried when he resigned. I couldn't even enjoy that. These are horrible, horrible days to be in the UK amongst a majority (yes, a majority, good for them) of stupid people. The longer it went on, the more divided the country got. We scratched the surface and we found mass racism. It might have been occasionally dressed up in 'sovereignty', but it's basically racism. The right to make "our laws" to have "our country back". Twitter, tumblr et al are full of stories this weekend of Blacks, Asians, Polish etc being harassed and told to go back home.
Deleted member 210577
Bluelight Crew
Finally, something we agree on!! The conservative, and labour parties, do not really represent the people they claim to.. and I think the public are finally starting to embrace this truth. I know no one else here seems to like Peter Hitchens apart from myself, but he's right.. the best thing that could happen is those parties finally collapse and die. Then the elements within both parties that share common ground could form two new parties that genuinely oppose each other, instead of what we have now which is two mutually ball scratching parties with some MPs stuck in a party they no longer resonate with.
Don't give those people airtime. Yeah it will happen, but it will die down if no one pays those cretins any attention. No need to give this anxiety any more attention that it deserves, so don't. Unity and moving forward gets a lot of airtime but now it must be put in to practice.
I befriended a polish woman in the park recently and I had to assure her yesterday that this stuff is just bullshit.. no one is getting kicked out and the people who promote that idea are far, far from a majority and always will be. There's plenty of people with right wing views, but the far-right is small and do not represent the core values of deep England.. despite the desperate attempts of the media to portray anyone with a right wing opinion as being some far-right nazi sympathizing scumbag.
The tories are not going to ignore the outcome of this referendum, though they're trying to buy some time. Time may not be on their side though, as britains bargaining position may get worse over the next couple of months.
In the end there are only two things that can happen: either britain will become significantly poorer, or britain will have to become more like america and it will have to fully embrace capitalism. In the second case the economy will eventually recover after a likely recession. In both cases, there will be tough times ahead for britain...or maybe, just for england and wales.
In the end there are only two things that can happen: either britain will become significantly poorer, or britain will have to become more like america and it will have to fully embrace capitalism. In the second case the economy will eventually recover after a likely recession. In both cases, there will be tough times ahead for britain...or maybe, just for england and wales.
Droppersneck
Bluelighter
That article seems like a liberal with high hopes to stay in the EU. The task of leaving the EU is very difficult but clearly worth doing. I think it will take longer than expected but will happen or they have another referendum in which they put the fix on this time. I hope for the good of the England they do get their soviernty back eventually.
zzz101
Bluelighter
Robin Cook was the only person to resign from government in protest following the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
...and now half the Labour party have quit when the referendum doesn't go their way... GUTLESS
...and now half the Labour party have quit when the referendum doesn't go their way... GUTLESS
manboychef
Bluelighter
I liked how after the vote Nigel Farage admitted he lied in quite a few of his brexit propaganda commercials. 350 Million (whatever they feel like using now because the pound is going to be worth jack for a long time) will not be going to the NHS as was originally stated.
I want to see what happens when the dust clears. Generally it takes a few years for the economy to resettle and I am hopeful it doesn't hurt as many british people as I believe it will.
I ask one question "Why wouldn't you want to pay to have collective bargaining power against places like china and the US?"
I want to see what happens when the dust clears. Generally it takes a few years for the economy to resettle and I am hopeful it doesn't hurt as many british people as I believe it will.
I ask one question "Why wouldn't you want to pay to have collective bargaining power against places like china and the US?"
Droppersneck
Bluelighter
I think the idea that the brexit was going to have no immediate effect on the pound is unrealistic. With more autonomy and less regulation Britain will return to its former glory. Norway seems to be doing okay? Right now it is the lefts job to fear monger in order to try impose their will over the will of the people. Hopefully BoJo holds strong and helps the world break free from the globalist agenda.
I think all the refugees intended for the U.S. And the UK should go to Germany. They can reform and call themselves Germanistan. Then we can see how the different nations progress over time. It would be interesting from a political/ socioeconomic aspect.
I think all the refugees intended for the U.S. And the UK should go to Germany. They can reform and call themselves Germanistan. Then we can see how the different nations progress over time. It would be interesting from a political/ socioeconomic aspect.
manboychef
Bluelighter
I hope they come here. We need to shake up our economy. We have become complacent as our voting percentage shows. Maybe a real threat to our way of life will make people start asking the harder questions.
BoJo wanted out of the EU because he wants MORE globalisation.
I also think that britains economy could quickly recover from the comming recession, with less regulation. But the question is whether this is what the british people realy wanted. Norway is practically an EU member as it pays contribution and follows EU regulation in some fields. If a product is to be allowed on the EU common market, it will have to meet EU conditions.
I think that many leave-voters indeed wanted to break free from globalisation. But that will come at a price, economically, and will make any kind of return to 'former glory' very unlikely. If you choose for capitalism and a more globalist agenda, wich is what boris johnson wants, it will mean: abolishing labour rights, or at least some of them, abolishing some environmental laws, cutting on welfare, cutting on NHS and make people pay for Healthcare, cutting on elderly care, cutting on the lower segments of public education, deregulate markets, deregulate the financial sector again, tax-cuts for billionaires and big corporations...I think that this indeed could help restore some 'former glory' and help keeping london the financial hub of the world. But that's hardly the anti-elitist program brits thought they where voting for, is it?
MMT
Bluelighter
How will more immigrants (legal or otherwise) shake up our economy ? For better or worse,you didn't state,so does it matter if they come to contribute or to further drain the already strained social safety net ?
What do you mean by "a real threat to our way of life" ? Not being a wise guy but that sounds almost "Trumpian".
What are the "harder questions" you are referring to.
Seriously MBC,I'm a bit puzzled and curious as to where you're coming from.I am not trolling you.
MMT
Bluelighter
Globalism is the ultimate,well global,concentration of power.I dare anyone to provide an example where accumulation of power does not end in corruption and self-interest at the expense of the powerless! One only need look at how America has become a literal police state for confirmation.Wake up world, the mythical "benevolent dictator" does not exist. The founders (of the US) knew this and,via The Constitution,tried to prevent the rise of a powerful central government.Their intent was a loose confederation of semi-autonomous states with a weak central government responsible for security,shared self-defense and as arbiter of disputes between the several states if/when they arose.Notice that they left room for "well regulated militia(s)" in case the intentionally weak central government couldn't resolve an issue peacefully.They never intended for Uncle Sam to rule by decree,yet here we are living,not loving,it.
In truth,the concept of a EU is a noble one, but as always human nature (greed,power) have mucked it up,a story as old as (human)time itself.
But this loose confederation is exactly what the EU is, and that's also the reason why it doesn't seem to be able to solve issues like the eurocrisis and the migration crisis: there is no central european government. And i'll say it once again: the agenda of brexiteers like boris johnson has Always been MORE GLOBALISATION.
London IS a place where an awfull lot of (financial) power is being concentrated. And under BJ this has only become more so than already was the case. London is the financial hub of the world, more even than wall-street. It's the city with the largest amount of billionaires in the world, and the london housing market has skyrocketed at the expense of common londoners. BJ's wish has, form the beginning on, to consolidate that posistion. To make london the economic capital of the world again..restore 'old glory' as droppersneck puts it.
The reason why the tories (meaning 'pirates', a nickname the conservatives gave themselves), hate the EU so much, is because they think of it as a socialist project, protecting europe AGAINST the stormy sea of globalisation. If one particular group of people is going to pay the price of all of this, it will be the so called 'common man'.
Vagina Lover
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2016
- Messages
- 1,513
There are many costs and contributions which are overlooked when assessing the role of the EU in financial legislation within the UK
Wasn't it the EU that invested hundreds of millions of euros to assist UK with the aftermath of the London bombings, while UK contributed a fraction of that?
I believe the costs were in the order of 1.2 billion pounds, of which EU contributions formed the large majority.
Perhaps a financial expert within the UK or EU can assist me with my memory, as I seem to have misplaced the exact figures?
There seem to be a lot of experts here...
Wasn't it the EU that invested hundreds of millions of euros to assist UK with the aftermath of the London bombings, while UK contributed a fraction of that?
I believe the costs were in the order of 1.2 billion pounds, of which EU contributions formed the large majority.
Perhaps a financial expert within the UK or EU can assist me with my memory, as I seem to have misplaced the exact figures?
There seem to be a lot of experts here...
jpgrdnr
Bluelighter
In terms of how I understand it leaving the EU was never really a brilliant idea financially. Its money the UK would have spent anyways towards trade. And its not really something that will happen right away. It'll take years.
I really do feel as a referendum tends to gain momentum that they become something greater idea-wise and the Brexit represents the dissatisfaction with the current government.
Its like all good sense just suddenly disappeared in England and the rural population decided to wave a middle finger and say piss off.
I really do feel as a referendum tends to gain momentum that they become something greater idea-wise and the Brexit represents the dissatisfaction with the current government.
Its like all good sense just suddenly disappeared in England and the rural population decided to wave a middle finger and say piss off.
Deleted member 210577
Bluelight Crew
Well it depends on how you look at it. The public haven't had a real choice in Westminster for decades, as both major parties have essentially adopted the same ideology underneath their outward name and appearance, and this was certainly a moment for the public to unleash some dissatisfaction in that respect. Can you blame them though? Respect is a two way street, and so is the relationship between electorate and government. This should be a warning to all democratic governments the world over.. you can't play dumb with the electorate or you will create tension that inevitably will find an outlet, one way or another. Just be thankful no blood was spilled! I know remainer's don't want to acknowledge this fact, but this is why democracy is so important and worth preserving. If we had remained in the EU and continued to be further undermined politically it would eventually invite disaster. This is the major failing of the elite and people on the left who can't face the fact that there are forces involved in large populations that you simply can't legislate out of existence. Nature always wins. We have to respect that and work with that fact, not oppose, suppress and ignore it.
The EU was setup by the elite to remove accountability. Forget all the pretense and notions of peace.. if they really cared they would never have allowed the project to reach this point in the first place. It has backfired on them. And good riddens. Again I know remainers won't see it this way, but actually this is a step forward.. this is progressive (I hate that word so much). It was an experiment, and it has proven that it does not work in the current format.. and given there is no chance of real reform (re: true agenda/founding principles), what choice is there except to leave or destroy it before it grows too powerful and does something stupid like provoke war with Russia.
I take it you would also support a scottish seccession then?
Escher's Waterfall
Bluelight Crew
Agreed that someone will have to push the button. EU is already pissed and wants to move forward.
But I also agree with that article that whoever does push the button will do the political equivalent of falling on one's sword. Probably both for their personal political career and their party.