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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

US Politics The trump impeachment thread

Right. And tell me. What happens if someone like Hillary Clinton is elected. And then decides to try and change the test to deem that someone like say, trump, is a psychopath.

Or perhaps all Republicans?

"if you don't believe in communism, you must be mentally ill and in need of psychiatric help".

I think that's too dangerous a tool to give to any current administration and I'm quite surprised you don't think so too. Given that this is a tool id more associate with oppression by the far left, if anyone not also far left.

That's why I said independent and transparent testing so it can be verified by the public.

I would also like all tax distributions and voting records to be public and transparent. So anyone is able to count the numbers.
 
That's why I said independent and transparent testing so it can be verified by the public.

I would also like all tax distributions and voting records to be public and transparent. So anyone is able to count the numbers.

By public voting. Do you mean everyone can see who you voted for? Cause id never agree with that either. An essential part of what makes the franchise function, such as it does, is that even if someone tries to compel you to vote a certain way, they have no way to determine if you actually did it.

If they could. They would be able to threaten people to vote a certain way, and flow through on it. Whereas in a secret vote, you can't even try because you can't determine if the person really did it or not.

Back on the original point. Even if you start such a test in a truly independent way, because of its potential to permanently shift the balance of power, it seems inevitable that a government at some point will attempt to corrupt it.

Seems safer to not have it at all.

Our systems not perfect, I doubt almost anyone would suggest it's even in the ballpark of perfect. But I fear it may still be pretty close to the best we can do right now.

One change I would be interested to see is some type of instant run off vote. So you can vote third party without essentially throwing your vote away.
 
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I can't support tests to become president for the same reason I can't support tests to be a voter. Whoever controls the tests controls the government. It's too dangerous IMO. It creates a single target that if compromised, would give one side of politics way too much power.

I agree, and who watches the watchers and that kind of thing -- people I have known who have gone into the psychiatric profession have been a rather motley and polarised crew -- either saintly folks who really want to help people in a way for which they can see the results of their work fairly readily, or the most screwed up and criminal people one could imagine, because of the power, I guess.

Asking candidates to fill out a Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory like they do for police officers may be helpful, but that could have problems and misuse too . . . but it could be like the tax returns -- it is not the government mandating it, it is journalists and pundits, and they already get nearly all presidential candidates to turn over medical records . . .
 
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It's not ideal but it's a better option. Like I would prefer that voting remain private, but it's better to have full transparency as opposed to the other eventuality which is electoral and voter fraud.

Full transparency is the only thing that can keep leaders accountable.
 
Voting records means what they voted for in office on roll call votes, correct? Aside from official publications like the Congressional Record, this information is digested into ratings by various interest groups and media outlets such as the AFL-CIO, American Conservative Union, League of Conservation Voters, National Journal and so on -- what I would like to see is a group of patients, doctors, academics, and pharmacists get together and amongst other things to push back start issuing ratings at the state and federal level about all of the things done about the "opioid cri$i$" because this is important, and leads to as much corruption and malfeasance in public office as a lot of other things.
 
they're going ahead with the impeachment


The California congresswoman [Pelosi] told Thursday morning's news conference: "The facts are uncontested. The president abused his power for his own political benefit at the expense of our national security, by withholding military aid and a crucial Oval Office meeting in exchange for an announcement for an investigation into his political rival."

She added: "Sadly, but with confidence and humility, with allegiance to our founders and a heart full of love for America, today I am asking our chairmen to proceed with articles of impeachment."
 
they're going ahead with the impeachment


Yes. Just got this update in my email. Sign the petition.
I love change.org All these petitions make a difference.

 
It's good they're going ahead with it, though it seems unlikely it will pass the Senate. What has been revealed is beyond alarming. Involving foreign governments in domestic affairs is very literally THE THING that the founding fathers created impeachment for, this is the very thing that they wrote about being the worst thing a president could do. Impeachment was also expressly written in to provide a way to remove a president who has undermined public trust, even without laws broken. His actions in foreign policy and "diplomacy" are disastrous and for that alone I want him gone, so we can halt the damage being done. This impeachment is beyond legitimate and 100% called for. This makes Nixon and (haha) Clinton's reasons for impeachment look tame.

Maybe justt enough Repubs will reclaim their balls and vote for removal. There HAS to be a group of them who are horrified by this stuff and just afraid to go against it for fear of their careers being over. Maybe for some of them, this is enough.
 
The Articles of Impeachment are out. They’re for abuse of power and obstruction of justice. Next, to the House floor for a vote. Then to the Senate for a trial.

Here’s a link to the text:
 
Of course. Maybe enough of them will grow a pair and actually serve the people of this country. Although if he just lost in 2020, it would cause less rage. Maybe anyway. But if he wins... ugh.

There is so much reversal that needs to happen... it's upsetting to even start thinking about. Yeah, the economy is doing well, but we're on the road to becoming indentured servants. And even more than that, there is some scary shit going on on the world stage right now. And this leader is the farthest from what we need to deal with all of that than anyone attempting to run for office. He has no idea what he's doing, he's getting played like a fiddle and two world powers are watching us lose our power, in fact helping it to be so. And this administration blames our ally for it instead of the cause.

China is the scariest though. They're really smart and they own us, pretty much. We need someone who isn't an impulsive egomaniac.
 
Republicans are so spineless.

Disagree. Republicans show a spine by not laying down and taking this fabricated miscarriage of justice. Dems are being spineless by spending 3y+ in trying to justify an impeachment (and failing with each claim, and moving on to another one rather than face reality), and carrying thru with this process when they haven't proven grounds for impeachment as evidenced by both the American people's opinion (check the polls on impeachment) nor their own members either declining to vote in support of it or in one case actually switching parties to the Republican side.

A party with a spine would have accepted they lost the 2016 election and worked to win the next one (they did well in 2018 midterms, lets see how they do in the 2020 presidential year). Instead, they've wasted millions of dollars (Mueller says 'hi') and a shit ton of time (um, they were elected to pass laws, correct? What does the record show they spent their time on?).

We can each have our opinion. Mine is in direct contradiction to your assertion.


There is so much reversal that needs to happen... it's upsetting to even start thinking about. Yeah, the economy is doing well, but we're on the road to becoming indentured servants. And even more than that, there is some scary shit going on on the world stage right now. And this leader is the farthest from what we need to deal with all of that than anyone attempting to run for office. He has no idea what he's doing, he's getting played like a fiddle and two world powers are watching us lose our power, in fact helping it to be so. And this administration blames our ally for it instead of the cause.

China is the scariest though. They're really smart and they own us, pretty much. We need someone who isn't an impulsive egomaniac.

Indentured servants? Which system of gov't best represents that - socialism or capitalism? I'm asking, because the left agenda puts more onus on the earners to carry others if they want to or not.

But let's look at the global stage, shall we? Trump's been in office for 3y+. All these scary situations like the Middle East, China, US Border concerns....did they start because he got elected? No, they pre-existed. So how were they brought into existence? One may suggest the lack of tough leadership from America (looking at both parties) allowed those other problems to develop rather than addressing them directly. Trump's moving to address them directly. Let's look at China specifically, a country with a known history of stealing IP, manipulating currency, disregarding international laws, and let's not forget civil rights abuses. Trump caused those things? No. Is he addressing them? Other than civil rights, yes. This is wrong?

Nevertheless, it's about doing the right thing here. Interference with presidential elections by the president by enlisting a foreign power is essentially the very thing the founding fathers wrote impeachment into the American system for.

I'm going to hang onto this quote until after an actual investigation is done into the 2016 election shenanigans. There is a very valid chance the Dems were the ones who did exactly what you outline, and are instead trying to pin it on Trump. I'd like to see the results from such an investigation, as Mueller's already cleared Trump, and nobody has really looked into all that the Dems have done to date (note, Biden on video boasting of such behaviour).
 
If POTUS can rig an election without being impeached, to quote one of the legal scholars who testified in the impeachment inquiry, “then nothing is impeachable”.
And Trump’s poll numbers on impeachment are impressively high:
 
if he's so innocent then he has nothing to fear from a trial. nothing to hide, nothing to fear, right?

Which is why he wants it to go to a trial. He's asked the senate to go to one so he can properly address this. He may get under cut by the senate preferring to dismiss it outright and move on rather than drag it out with a trial as we head towards elections.
 
Senate Dems are requesting as much. Odd, the House had the chance, but wouldn't take the request for their testimony to a judicial decision when they had the chance. Why is that?

Why should they have to? These witnesses were subpoenaed. They should agree to appear without a court battle. If an ordinary citizen defied a court subpoena to testify a judge would sign off to jail them that day but we all know how the courts work for wealthy and powerful people. It would be stupid to play into Trump and company delay and obstruct tactics. We've been waiting for over a year for the tax records and other assorted bullshit to go through the courts. We would never see those witnesses in a timely manner and that's exactly the game that Trump and his cronies are playing. The courts are where subpoenas go to die.

Just more proof of obstruction to add on... You say the dems have been out to get him for 3yrs, trying one thing after another but I say that Trumps actions over those 3yrs have brought us here. He just keeps doing the same kind of bullshit over and over again but worse and the glue is starting to stick more and more. If I keep committing crimes and getting away with it but eventually get a charge that sticks its not because the law is out to get me. It's because I'm a criminal.

I don't even come into this thread to comment anymore because it is obvious that there are those who will believe whatever they want to believe. As long as Trumps supporters feel they can plausibly deny the obvious or make technical excuses they will because of their political slant. Ive seen enough and I don't have the time to waste my breath.
 
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