Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

[Squeaky]

Hi ppls, I have been trying to get of heroin for some time by doing a tapering down on my usage. I would say I'm currently using bout 0.40g a day, with each IV shot of 0.08g throughout the day. I have been able to obtain 40mls of methadone n was wondering if anyone can advise me to best use the methadone to get clean before I get addicted to the methadone. I have heard ppl say that if using the dome for a few days it's not long enough to be addicted. Is this true and is it doable or am I just wishful thinking?
Thanking everyones opinion n suggestions in advance.

The main reason to switch from h to metadone is 1-its legal and you can get a prescription, 2-it lasts so long that you only need to dose once per day. If your goal is to quit h and get through it with no wds by using methadone, while not getting addicted to methadone, then good luck. In the amount of time it will take to get past the worst of the wds from h, you will already be hooked on methadone.
If you have had good luck tapering on h then maybe it’s a better idea to continue on that road. Don’t forget that methadone is an opiate like heroin, and it’s just as addictive. A huge problem you’re looking at is that if you do transition from h to methadone and yhen you can’t get more, the wds can last for a month because if its long half-life.
Try to get your h usage down to once every 8 hours. Then start lowering the dosage gradually. Maybe then you can transfer to methadone at a lower level and the methadone you have will last longer. Don’t forget that it took you a long time to get here, it will take a long time to get back. And whatever you do, that last jump to zero is going to suck.

 

[Squeaky]

Oops, I did it again. I ran through 100 oxy 30’s in 7 days. Now I’ll be out for three weeks. Yet again I have to plaster on a fake smile and pretend I can’t sleep because of something else.

I keep playing this game where I inventory my tricks for getting through the first four days of withdrawals. Have marijuana? Check. Kratom? Check? Ativan? Check. Sick days from my job? Check. Nowadays I’m sort of looking forward to being out of my band-aids. Some day, probably in the next 12 months, I will be out of something that I need to cover up my wd’s and either get smart and stop filling my prescriptions or admit there’s a real problem and ask for real help. I have become an expert at excusing my symptoms and getting sympathy for the nausea, insomnia, sweating, etc.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Hey Squeaky. I just read your journey with the oxy ( not all of it but enough to get the general idea). You unfortunately will never be able to take your script correctly so it will always be the 7 day fun and 21 day depression every month. You are hard wired to use your script all up until its gone whether it takes 4 days or 8 days. It will always be gone. I did the same exact thing. Every fuckin' month I would make these grand ideas to take as directed and just have fun for 1st 3 days then chill and do right. It was all bullshit. I failed every single month. This was 3 years ago and I would still be doing it to this day had I not been dropped for a dirty test. Re-fill day was the highlight of the month. And of course we always want it early. Your only saving grace is to start taking as directed or you will be on that hamster wheel for the rest of your using days. I had to quit opioids altogether because I can't trust myself to not abuse any script I am given. It's just the way our minds control our addiction. I hope one day you can be strong enough to take as directed. I know I will never be.

 

[Squeaky]

Hey Squeaky. I just read your journey with the oxy ( not all of it but enough to get the general idea). You unfortunately will never be able to take your script correctly so it will always be the 7 day fun and 21 day depression every month. You are hard wired to use your script all up until its gone whether it takes 4 days or 8 days. It will always be gone. I did the same exact thing. Every fuckin' month I would make these grand ideas to take as directed and just have fun for 1st 3 days then chill and do right. It was all bullshit. I failed every single month. This was 3 years ago and I would still be doing it to this day had I not been dropped for a dirty test. Re-fill day was the highlight of the month. And of course we always want it early. Your only saving grace is to start taking as directed or you will be on that hamster wheel for the rest of your using days. I had to quit opioids altogether because I can't trust myself to not abuse any script I am given. It's just the way our minds control our addiction. I hope one day you can be strong enough to take as directed. I know I will never be.

Thank you for the input. I’m seeing lately that my future looks a lot like your past.
I’ll never be strong enough. I know that now. I came clean to my wife yesterday. I have three weeks to hatch a plan with her where my script gets filled but I don’t get it.
The reality now is that if I can live through three weeks without pain management, then I can live the first 7 days without it too. My back hurts non stop but the bigger picture here is that in today’s climate, nobody is ever going to write me a script for 100 oxy 30’s. She knows this as well. I have wanted to tell my Dr to ‘hold back’ on the script for a while so I can get my tolerance back down, but it would mean that then would start me back on something too weak.
When the time comes that I need the pills a lot, like I cant get out of bed for a week kind of pain, I’m going to need a crap load of pills. And I’m going to need them ASAP. Hopefully the plan going forward is for me to give the bottle straight to her with specific instructions not to let me have even one if I’m able to walk, but as many as I want if I’m bedridden in pain. If I don’t need them for a few months I’ll have a reserve and hopefully one day I’ll be able to stop paying that Dr.
She understands my pain, but she’ll keep me honest. I just have to work up some basic rules while I’m off the pills. Problem there is that my tolerance is legitimately really high, so when I need them I sound like a junkie: ”Give me 5 now (150mg oxy), and 3 more every 4 hours”. No Dr in the world would write that prescription, but that’s what it takes to get me some pain relief. Actually the problem is that I’m doing that junkie math when my pain is at a 5 when I really need to hold off until it’s an 8, but if I could fo that on my own I wouldn’t be in this position.
And if this doesn’t work I’m going to have to bite the bullet and stop seeing that Dr.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Thank you for the input. I’m seeing lately that my future looks a lot like your past.
I’ll never be strong enough. I know that now. I came clean to my wife yesterday. I have three weeks to hatch a plan with her where my script gets filled but I don’t get it.
The reality now is that if I can live through three weeks without pain management, then I can live the first 7 days without it too. My back hurts non stop but the bigger picture here is that in today’s climate, nobody is ever going to write me a script for 100 oxy 30’s. She knows this as well. I have wanted to tell my Dr to ‘hold back’ on the script for a while so I can get my tolerance back down, but it would mean that then would start me back on something too weak.
When the time comes that I need the pills a lot, like I cant get out of bed for a week kind of pain, I’m going to need a crap load of pills. And I’m going to need them ASAP. Hopefully the plan going forward is for me to give the bottle straight to her with specific instructions not to let me have even one if I’m able to walk, but as many as I want if I’m bedridden in pain. If I don’t need them for a few months I’ll have a reserve and hopefully one day I’ll be able to stop paying that Dr.
She understands my pain, but she’ll keep me honest. I just have to work up some basic rules while I’m off the pills. Problem there is that my tolerance is legitimately really high, so when I need them I sound like a junkie: ”Give me 5 now (150mg oxy), and 3 more every 4 hours”. No Dr in the world would write that prescription, but that’s what it takes to get me some pain relief. Actually the problem is that I’m doing that junkie math when my pain is at a 5 when I really need to hold off until it’s an 8, but if I could fo that on my own I wouldn’t be in this position.
And if this doesn’t work I’m going to have to bite the bullet and stop seeing that Dr.

I sure know that you are between a rock and a hard spot. Because you have legitimate pain you need some relief. Guess we all have to be honest with ourselves and realize we aren't taking them only for pain control but to get high as well. You said it yourself. You have no pain control for 3 weeks and you get by okay with other substances. Then you binge when you get them and it isn't because you are in pain it's because you love the high. That was so me. Right down to having someone else hold them. Didn't work for me at all. I just lied about my pain to get them. Made a headache sound like I was having a brain anuerism. I manipulated my Dr. to get them and I manipulated everyone around me to stay on them. It was such a vicious cycle month after month. I know exactly what you are going through. And I really feel for ya. Your only salvation will be to get your pain under control with another opioid. One thats not so enjoyable and abusuable. The blue 30 mg oxy are just fun to get high pills and really hard to stop misusing. If you really want to stop abusing your oxy script maybe an ER formula or another opioid is your best bet. As long as you are getting the IR's you will probably still be tempted to misuse them even IF you do get your tolerance down. The blues are just too easy to get high on and you probably won't be able to give that up very easily. There are other formulations to control your pain but before you can give them a chance you have to break the psychological addiction to the blues. You probably think refill day is the best day of the month and are in the best mood ever and are happy as a lark. Just like me. But it isn't because you are looking forward to pain relief. You are looking forward to that sweet fuzzy warm relief of a high when you finally get out to your car, tear open the bag, rip off the lid and pop those sweet pills into your mouth before you even buckle your seat belt. God......your story was the story of my life. I really really wish you strength man. You are going to be in the fight of your life to take your script as it is prescribed. I want you to win that fight without having to totally quit like I had to. I had no other choice. I can never be prescribed an abusable opioid for the rest of my life. I will never be able to not eat them all up until gone. Was a sad day when I realized I was so weak and had no willpower to control my use but on the other hand I am no longer addicted to anything and I recovered on my own. So I guess I was stronger than I thought. Keep updating Squeaky because I'm rooting for you.

 

[Squeaky]

I sure know that you are between a rock and a hard spot. Because you have legitimate pain you need some relief. Guess we all have to be honest with ourselves and realize we aren't taking them only for pain control but to get high as well. You said it yourself. You have no pain control for 3 weeks and you get by okay with other substances. Then you binge when you get them and it isn't because you are in pain it's because you love the high. That was so me. Right down to having someone else hold them. Didn't work for me at all. I just lied about my pain to get them. Made a headache sound like I was having a brain anuerism. I manipulated my Dr. to get them and I manipulated everyone around me to stay on them. It was such a vicious cycle month after month. I know exactly what you are going through. And I really feel for ya. Your only salvation will be to get your pain under control with another opioid. One thats not so enjoyable and abusuable. The blue 30 mg oxy are just fun to get high pills and really hard to stop misusing. If you really want to stop abusing your oxy script maybe an ER formula or another opioid is your best bet. As long as you are getting the IR's you will probably still be tempted to misuse them even IF you do get your tolerance down. The blues are just too easy to get high on and you probably won't be able to give that up very easily. There are other formulations to control your pain but before you can give them a chance you have to break the psychological addiction to the blues. You probably think refill day is the best day of the month and are in the best mood ever and are happy as a lark. Just like me. But it isn't because you are looking forward to pain relief. You are looking forward to that sweet fuzzy warm relief of a high when you finally get out to your car, tear open the bag, rip off the lid and pop those sweet pills into your mouth before you even buckle your seat belt. God......your story was the story of my life. I really really wish you strength man. You are going to be in the fight of your life to take your script as it is prescribed. I want you to win that fight without having to totally quit like I had to. I had no other choice. I can never be prescribed an abusable opioid for the rest of my life. I will never be able to not eat them all up until gone. Was a sad day when I realized I was so weak and had no willpower to control my use but on the other hand I am no longer addicted to anything and I recovered on my own. So I guess I was stronger than I thought. Keep updating Squeaky because I'm rooting for you.

Believe it or not..... I don’t look forward any more to prescription day and I never get high any more, regardless of how much I take. There was a time when that was true, so I do understand what you mean. And I’m not deflecting or making up lies/excuses. About a year ago I started hating refill day.
The amount of time I run through my script now, and the huge quantity I take when I get my little blue pills means this: I get to have no worries about how I’m going to handle my aches and pains for a couple of days, and after that it’s planning how to get through the next two-three days as I’m running out, then dealing with withdrawals for a week, then suffering through the day-to-day grind wishing I wasn’t stuck here for the next two weeks.
There was certainly a time when the pills gave me a buzz. And I definitely overused them every month for a long time. But at the level I’m taking this crap I should be in a coma. I used to drink..... a lot. Like a liter of gin every day for 20 years. I could drink a dozen beers and you would never know. One day I just quit: no withdrawls, no cravings, no paws. Somehow it seems I’ve got a crazy tolerance for these things. The only person who believes it is my wife, because she watched it happen. My first surgery they gave me morphine until they said the next shot would kill me, but I felt absolutely nothing. I guess I’m one of the lucky few for whom these things just don’t work for long.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Believe it or not..... I don’t look forward any more to prescription day and I never get high any more, regardless of how much I take. There was a time when that was true, so I do understand what you mean. And I’m not deflecting or making up lies/excuses. About a year ago I started hating refill day.
The amount of time I run through my script now, and the huge quantity I take when I get my little blue pills means this: I get to have no worries about how I’m going to handle my aches and pains for a couple of days, and after that it’s planning how to get through the next two-three days as I’m running out, then dealing with withdrawals for a week, then suffering through the day-to-day grind wishing I wasn’t stuck here for the next two weeks.
There was certainly a time when the pills gave me a buzz. And I definitely overused them every month for a long time. But at the level I’m taking this crap I should be in a coma. I used to drink..... a lot. Like a liter of gin every day for 20 years. I could drink a dozen beers and you would never know. One day I just quit: no withdrawls, no cravings, no paws. Somehow it seems I’ve got a crazy tolerance for these things. The only person who believes it is my wife, because she watched it happen. My first surgery they gave me morphine until they said the next shot would of them a month. kill me, but I felt absolutely nothing. I guess I’m one of the lucky few for whom these things just don’t work for long.

I believe you. I guess your only way out is if you can't make them last then just take them when you get them and keep comfort meds for when they are gone. Because like you said...the doc isn't going to give you hundreds and hundreds per month. I guess just be damn glad you get anything. As a lot of people who have pain...don't. Make them last or go without. Seems the only 2 options you have. Pick one.

 

[Squeaky]

I believe you. I guess your only way out is if you can't make them last then just take them when you get them and keep comfort meds for when they are gone. Because like you said...the doc isn't going to give you hundreds and hundreds per month. I guess just be damn glad you get anything. As a lot of people who have pain...don't. Make them last or go without. Seems the only 2 options you have. Pick one.

Yeah, I’m fucked.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

Yeah, I’m fucked.

No you aren't. You just haven't figured it out yet. But you will.

 

[Squeaky]

No you aren't. You just haven't figured it out yet. But you will.

Thx

 

[jbags091992]

I need help kicking the speed ball habit as well. I’ve been iv heroin and cocaine/crack on and off for about ten years. I have NEVER been able to quit on my own. the longest I’ve gone was maybe 36 hours. The only time I was able to quit cold turkey was being in jail. It was horrible, but I feel like it’s the same thing as cigarettes when you got locked up. You know your not going to get them so you don’t feen for them as much. But when I was out on the street. I just couldn’t make it pass that 2nd-3rd day. I would eventually find a way to get well. I have no insurance so I can’t go to a detox where they help you medically withdraw with shots of buprenorphine in the arm. I need to help ween off of it. I can’t do it cold turkey. And idk what kind of fucking kratom you guys get. But I tried it when trying to kick and it did absolutely nothing. Maybe helped with the restless legs a tiny bit.

 

[Squeaky]

I have been out for 6 days now. Only Kratom and weed. I’m back to my normal aches and pains. It feels like my new pattern is however many days I use up my script is how many days it takes me to feel normal again afterwards.
This time there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Knowing I have already committed to stopping the pills is definitely giving me a bit of determination and hope. And knowing that I have support is changing my thinking about the future

 

[Purposefull]

Most clinics will let you back in over time. A discharge is usually a strong warning shot to drive the point home. Personally I'd swallow whatever pride I had left and get in a methadone clinic @ 30mgs and start tapering right away. Last clinic I went to @ 30 I immediately dropped to 25mgs and kept dropping a mg every two weeks after that. In less than a year you can be done without the nasty WD.. It's expensive, but heroin isn't exactly cheap either and you probably won't get tossed in the hoosegow going to the clinic..
The hoosegow for as innocent sounding as it may seem is still the slammer. Nobody pays for a weekend getaway to the hoosegows..

 

[Jabberwocky]

I appreciate this guys, as to getting back on subs, I was discharged from the program due to relapsing. Failed drug tests from the cocaine and 1 for h. I can get some subs from a buddy to try and slowly ween off those after h hoping it would be easier than tapering off h. Especially since it's just as mentally addictive as it is physically. The warm feeling in your entire body as it relaxes. Fortunately I've never shot up I've only used h nasally or "snorting"

How are you doing now?
I'll give you a warning about the subs which is that the WD's last very fucking long and can be very severe.
I'd rather do fent rehab than be on sub rehab right now.

 

[Purposefull]

How are you doing now?
I'll give you a warning about the subs which is that the WD's last very fucking long and can be very severe.
I'd rather do fent rehab than be on sub rehab right now.

Which is why methadone is probably the better option. I've tapered off it. It takes awhile, but from everyone I've ever spoken to about the difference it's night and day. I dunno about subs, but do know about methadone..
Thinking about methadone I forgot to take my little 6 mgs this morning ..Little tingling in the feet, but that's all..

 

[deficiT]

People say that suboxone and methadone withdrawals are terrible, and they're certainly not fun, but it's far easier to taper off of one of those than it is off of fent/heroin due to the long half lives. If you do it right, suboxone withdrawal isn't nightmarish. I never want to go through fent withdrawal again, that shit is horrible, especially if you're doing it raw with no help.

 

[Squeaky]

What defines addiction? If I were diabetic, would they say I’m addicted to insulin? I eat lunch every day, so am I addicted to the peanut butter or the jelly.?
When I’m in pain and I take more pills than prescribed because what they give me isn’t working.... I’m labeled a junkie.
There’s a Kratom documentary on Amazon and they interview the owner of a rehab center. He implied that using Kratom could mean I’m still an addict. It’s not heroin. It’s not crystal meth. No needles, no snorting, not getting high, no overdose......
The politics around this tell the whole tale. The whole medical community is made up of Dr’s who don’t really know what they’re prescribing and others who are glorified drug dealers. The guy writing the prescription, the guy responsible for trying to cut me and fix the problem, and the guy who could see the connection between my pills and my new symptoms (withdrawals): THEY NEVER TALK TO EACHOTHER!! I’m left to solve my own problems. To ask for help is to admit I have a problem. That will only get me labeled a ‘drug seeker’ and cut off from the only thing that really works.
How is it possible that nothing has changed but last month I was a pain management patient and next month I could be a junkie? And if I turn to Mother Nature and eat the wrong f’ing plant, I could ho to jail! Thank God for Kratom, and weed is legal here(but not everywhere), but there’s other possible treatments (like Ibogane) that nobody in the USA has any access to because the federal government has made it illegal.
We live in a dictatorship. No joke. The difference here is that the dictator is a combination of politicians and CEO’s, and we have all been blind enough to believe that this is freedom. I’m going to start doing whatever the fuck works and keep my mouth shut. It’s better to beg for forgiveness that ask for permission. I’m going to have to figure out some way of getting my script filled but have no access to the pills for a while. Maybe a year.

 

[MyrandaK]

Anyone know if pregabalin is noticeably better than gabapentin for opioid withdrawals?

I’ve never noticed Ortega akin to do anything at all. Gabapentin is wonderful, though. Sadly tolerance develops fast.

 

[MyrandaK]

I’ve never noticed pregabalin to do anything at all. Gabapentin is wonderful, though. Sadly tolerance develops fast.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

What defines addiction? If I were diabetic, would they say I’m addicted to insulin? I eat lunch every day, so am I addicted to the peanut butter or the jelly.?
When I’m in pain and I take more pills than prescribed because what they give me isn’t working.... I’m labeled a junkie.
There’s a Kratom documentary on Amazon and they interview the owner of a rehab center. He implied that using Kratom could mean I’m still an addict. It’s not heroin. It’s not crystal meth. No needles, no snorting, not getting high, no overdose......
The politics around this tell the whole tale. The whole medical community is made up of Dr’s who don’t really know what they’re prescribing and others who are glorified drug dealers. The guy writing the prescription, the guy responsible for trying to cut me and fix the problem, and the guy who could see the connection between my pills and my new symptoms (withdrawals): THEY NEVER TALK TO EACHOTHER!! I’m left to solve my own problems. To ask for help is to admit I have a problem. That will only get me labeled a ‘drug seeker’ and cut off from the only thing that really works.
How is it possible that nothing has changed but last month I was a pain management patient and next month I could be a junkie? And if I turn to Mother Nature and eat the wrong f’ing plant, I could ho to jail! Thank God for Kratom, and weed is legal here(but not everywhere), but there’s other possible treatments (like Ibogane) that nobody in the USA has any access to because the federal government has made it illegal.
We live in a dictatorship. No joke. The difference here is that the dictator is a combination of politicians and CEO’s, and we have all been blind enough to believe that this is freedom. I’m going to start doing whatever the fuck works and keep my mouth shut. It’s better to beg for forgiveness that ask for permission. I’m going to have to figure out some way of getting my script filled but have no access to the pills for a while. Maybe a year.

Hey Squeaky. People like us that take all of our prescribed medicine in the first 6 days of being issued said script are addicted to the meds. We try and fool ourselves that we need more to deal with our pain but we lie to ourselves. We have both admitted that when we run out our pain is still manageable with different things ( like kratom and weed ) so obviously we can deal with the pain without the script. You aren't alone as there are many on here that gobble up their scripts ( I have seen BL's that report eating them in as little as 3 days ). Because you are prescribed 30mg oxy you are one of the millions that got the most abusable little blue pill out there.

I know I sound like a broken record but you will never be able to take them as prescribed. You will binge on them every single month and go without for the remainder. It is just the nature of addiction. It doesn't make us bad people or a " junkie " or anything else. Oxy feels amazing. It is extremely abusable. Your only way off of the hamster wheel is to get your Doc to give you an ER formulation or to switch to a painkiller that helps your pain yet does not produce the euphoria that you seek. I know you say you don't get high off of them but I don't believe that entirely. Maybe not as high as you used to get but I know you still feel euphoria or you wouldn't gobble them up so quick.

You can continue to misuse the script or you can admit you have a problem. You actually already admitted you had a problem a few posts ago. You can start taking methadone to control your pain and the addiction. You can also get suboxone. Or you can stay on the Oxy and live your life as you have been. If you think that filling your script and giving them to someone else will work you will just manipulate that person to give them to you. Your wife in this instance. You can't fill the script and pretend they don't exist.

Changing meds or using your script as prescribed is the only way out. I am pretty sure you know that already. I'm pretty sure you have known that for a long time now. Read back through your posts on this really long thread and I think you will see what I mean.