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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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ShroomySatori said:
Hi so I woke up today having an extreme anxiety attack. It is going on for 3 hours and I can't calm myself down even with valium and a muscle relaxer. I literally feel like I am dying. I understand that I can't die from a panic attack, it just feels that way. But this is so rough that all of my other symptoms have evaporated. I exist as nothing but fear. I am choosing to fight rather than flight and I'm just hoping that I make it through today without dying. Relapse is not an option.

Just wondering if anyone else gets this shit. I can't handle it at all. I have a pre-existing panic disorder and I think quitting weed at the same time, which helps keep me relaxed, is exacerbating this problem. I really need to calm down, I'm just trying to talk myself through it and I have some relaxing music playing but it's not enough, my heart is beating out of my chest. Maybe some of that clonidine which is commonly used would help because it might be high blood pressure triggering it.
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Have you talked to someone about getting proper meds? Im sure as much as it sucks talking about your use you can get some help. Have you tried a different benzo if available? I would be careful not to justify benzo use during withdrawl unless absolutely necessary, but for. Your sake try a Valium & Ativan they worked well together for me.
 
^Thanks man. I might need your advice once I start tapering the benzos in the future, but that will not be for a long while. I will definitely give that a read. I'm prescribed valium for 4 years but from someone who says they shouldn't really be prescribing me benzos (not a psych). Ever since my first benzo, I quit my alcohol addiction cold turkey and that seriously changed my life. Haven't had a sip of that poison since and I think it was going to kill me. I just very obviously need them as I am a complete wreck without them and the doctor saw that. I've been on them for long enough that I could definitely talk to a shrink about different options, and I plan to do this very soon. There are other meds that could help my anxiety while I taper the benzos. I plan on powering through this additional post-acute oxycodone anxiety with natural things from the health food store. H

And yeah man, klonopin is the best benzo for me right now but I get diazepam. I really prefer the clonazepam, and I have no trouble getting any benzo there is (illicitly, but in this country once you possess them it is legal to have them, just not purchase them). I talked to a social worker and nurse recently, and they said I should talk to a psychiatrist about it. I am going for both psychiatrist and psychologist very soon. I take 2mg klonopin a day :(. I save the diazepam for tapering in the future. I am going for a psychiatric evaluation although I already know that I'm borderline, it should still be insightful.

My benzo use is 'justified' by my panic disorder. It has nothing whatsoever to do with my oxycodone withdrawal, as I have continued to take the same doses that I normally do. The additional anxiety I am sure will pass in time, from this withdrawal, as before I started tapering I was very stable. I mean, occasionally I might take an extra benzo if it's really really bad but that is like my mortal enemy because I refuse to worsen that addiction to get off the oxy's. The physical dependency is so much worse to those but at least I don't fiend or obsess about them - the oxy and heroin and dilaudid is the first to go, or it will simply kill me.

I don't take any more benzos than I normally take in withdrawal, as that would be idiotic (except perhaps like once a week). I try and deal with the additional anxiety through natural means. I spent over a year of my life getting hit by thousands upon thousands of panic attacks. The panic symptoms were essentially always present and I was ready to kill myself. I was starting to slit my wrists. I showed up at the ER multiple times claiming I was having a heart attack. I simply couldn't handle it so they gave me xanax. I hated xanax and switched myself over to the longer acting benzos before getting diazepam scripted. I know I am going to have to quit the klonopin too, but not right now. It would completely fuck up my oxy taper if I started tapering off that too at the same time. My pre-existing anxiety issues are extreme. I've been on them long enough that it will be no problem to work with a medical professional - I was taking way more oxy's than prescribed, and heroin isn't really prescribed (actually, every doctor in my country now has the ability to prescribe pure heroin to addicts) - so I haven't wanted to bring that up to anyone. I'm kicking oxy's ass anyway.

I really like ativan too man, it's a great muscle relaxer for me. I prefer the longer acting benzos though as I only have to dose klonopin once a day. I understand how shit they are to be on but my anxiety was so horrific at the time I can honestly say that I wouldn't be here typing this without them.
 
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I am feeling more positive than last time I posted. A good friend of mine pointed out that I had recently stopped my benzos...ativan, and that could be affecting my feeling of well being, as well as my progress in my taper. That friend is right! I have been on ativan for years, at least 3 years, and before that 2 years on Xanax. Because benzos potentiate opiates it make sense that I have bad withdrawals in the early morning hours and that is when I tend to need to dose a little extra. I was beating myself up emotionally, and now have stopped.
I only took my ativan right before bedtime. That meant there was enough in my system to help increase the effectiveness of my morning dose of opiates. And, it is not even a month that I have been off... maybe 2-3 weeks? And I only had one month to taper the benzo and be done, per doctor's orders. My mind and body does miss the benzo, but does not crave it, if that makes sense.
I am also going to Physical therapy, and am doing very well. My focus is to maintain my current dose of opiates, and continue to work hard at home on my p.t. exercises so that I can regain some mobility that I lost due to knee injury.
Oh, Squeaky, my heart goes out to you. I understand how you feel. It is so frustrating to taper, and I need to remember to be kind to myself. I have thought that suicide would be a relief, but I could never ever do that to my children. They would feel an abandonment that would last their lifetime. But, I have felt hopeless at times and by hanging in there I got to regain my positive outlook.
 
Hey Squeaky brother this is directed to you when you log in next time. We started off at the exact same doses of everything man. Your ativan dose is equivalent to my klonopin dose if I'm not mistaken. Your oxycodone dose was exactly the same if I'm not mistaken. Coincidence? I think not dude. We were meant to help each other get clean.

You gotta see my progress man, it will help you. Check out my youtube channel. The first few videos are completely fucked and then I start appearing so damn good, like nothing is wrong. I still have a long way to go, in my opinion I am not clean until I am clean. I live with the constant threat of relapse and have insane cravings to just rail a fuck ton of dilaudid. Man... I was sniffing fucking china white chipped off a brick from southeast asia for years. If I can beat this, so can you. It has been so tough for me and I started this such a long time ago. I recognized this problem back in January and started trying to correct it. I have relapsed countless times, again and again. And I will never give up.

How can you be down on yourself for fighting the demon of all demons? Im tellin ya man oxy wd's are worse than heroin wd's. Not sure about your strategy but I don't think it matters so long as you are fighting. No matter how many times you relapse just keep going. You'll never be normal until you get clean. I know this because I am on the same exact situation as you and that's how I feel myself. I know you want off too and you just gotta keep lowering your dose until you get it next time. I truly believe that you can do it so long as you believe in yourself. I'm the most fucked up individual ever. I guarantee you that I am way more screwed in the head than you, times 10 man. If I can do this, of course you can man. It doesn't matter what dose you're still on, so long as you are tapering.

Worries me how you mentioned suicide and I understand. I was suicidal for years and I have fucking scars all over my left arm to show for it. It's embarrassing man. And I'm telling you dude it's not you who is suicidal. It's the fucking drugs fucking with you because when I start getting clean I would never, ever harm myself and take a pair of scissors and cut at my arm like I used to until there was blood everywhere. I'm tellin ya man I am an absolute nut case... borderline personality disorder is the worst.

I'm also not sure of your priorities in life, I think you mentioned a wife. Well, I am a basement dweller man. That's how I do it... I literally do nothing else whatsoever until I am clean. It is the 100% focus of my life right now. If I had any sort of priorities at all, I would be unable to do this. Maybe you just need to take it easy for a while. That's also why I am tapering so harshly... I can't be a basement dweller forever man. So it's a bit different for me, but we have the exact same drug problems. 40mg/day isn't really shit except for a lot of progress. I still have cravings all the time that I have to fight off and I feel like the last little bit is going to be the toughest of all.

If you are serious about this you have to talk to people man and let out your emotions, it is the best thing to do. On a daily basis, so PM me if you want and we can email or whatever. Don't beat yourself up fighting fucking Satan man. It's tough shit.
 
ShroomySatori said:
^Thanks man. I might need your advice once I start tapering the benzos in the future, but that will not be for a long while. I will definitely give that a read. I'm prescribed valium for 4 years but from someone who says they shouldn't really be prescribing me benzos (not a psych). Ever since my first benzo, I quit my alcohol addiction cold turkey and that seriously changed my life. Haven't had a sip of that poison since and I think it was going to kill me. I just very obviously need them as I am a complete wreck without them and the doctor saw that. I've been on them for long enough that I could definitely talk to a shrink about different options, and I plan to do this very soon. There are other meds that could help my anxiety while I taper the benzos. I plan on powering through this additional post-acute oxycodone anxiety with natural things from the health food store. H

And yeah man, klonopin is the best benzo for me right now but I get diazepam. I really prefer the clonazepam, and I have no trouble getting any benzo there is (illicitly, but in this country once you possess them it is legal to have them, just not purchase them). I talked to a social worker and nurse recently, and they said I should talk to a psychiatrist about it. I am going for both psychiatrist and psychologist very soon. I take 2mg klonopin a day :(. I save the diazepam for tapering in the future. I am going for a psychiatric evaluation although I already know that I'm borderline, it should still be insightful.

My benzo use is 'justified' by my panic disorder. It has nothing whatsoever to do with my oxycodone withdrawal, as I have continued to take the same doses that I normally do. The additional anxiety I am sure will pass in time, from this withdrawal, as before I started tapering I was very stable. I mean, occasionally I might take an extra benzo if it's really really bad but that is like my mortal enemy because I refuse to worsen that addiction to get off the oxy's. The physical dependency is so much worse to those but at least I don't fiend or obsess about them - the oxy and heroin and dilaudid is the first to go, or it will simply kill me.

I don't take any more benzos than I normally take in withdrawal, as that would be idiotic (except perhaps like once a week). I try and deal with the additional anxiety through natural means. I spent over a year of my life getting hit by thousands upon thousands of panic attacks. The panic symptoms were essentially always present and I was ready to kill myself. I was starting to slit my wrists. I showed up at the ER multiple times claiming I was having a heart attack. I simply couldn't handle it so they gave me xanax. I hated xanax and switched myself over to the longer acting benzos before getting diazepam scripted. I know I am going to have to quit the klonopin too, but not right now. It would completely fuck up my oxy taper if I started tapering off that too at the same time. My pre-existing anxiety issues are extreme. I've been on them long enough that it will be no problem to work with a medical professional - I was taking way more oxy's than prescribed, and heroin isn't really prescribed (actually, every doctor in my country now has the ability to prescribe pure heroin to addicts) - so I haven't wanted to bring that up to anyone. I'm kicking oxy's ass anyway.

I really like ativan too man, it's a great muscle relaxer for me. I prefer the longer acting benzos though as I only have to dose klonopin once a day. I understand how shit they are to be on but my anxiety was so horrific at the time I can honestly say that I wouldn't be here typing this without them.
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I honestly find klonopin to be overprescribed because it's long half life doctors don't really have to follow up with patients as often and therefore less accidents. I would prefer the valium & ativan and would submit to urine tests to get on them instead, but there is really no fighting my current situation since I cannot afford a good psych and my D.O. prescribes my meds for me (which costs me nothing, and scripts are $1.00).

I finally tried xanax this past year/two in powder form when I didn't have a script and I found it helpful in place of klonopin for about 2-2.5 months after that my tolerance was back to where it was with klonopin and I was not feeling the relief I used to. I don't know why but recently I've wanted to try phenazepam, I understand the risks people take by trying to get high from it - but for my needs it may help me (specifically with getting to bed at the time I wish - if the effects are what I've read).

Guess we'll see.

Good luck feel free to PM me.

-dp
 
So today is a great day. I am so full of life it is so lovely to feel human once again. This is Day 8 of my 40mg dosing and I am considering dropping to 20mg sooner rather than later. I'm going to enjoy a few days of feeling great first. Yesterday was also a wonderful day, there was essentially nothing wrong with it. I'm shocked at how good I feel.

I was laughing this morning... I haven't laughed for real in so long! I mean, stoner giggles sure, but nothing real. I was laughing at how screwed up I am in this horrible predicament. I know I'm going to beat it now, and I am finding humour in my struggle somehow. The feeling of getting clean is like nothing I have ever felt before. I wasn't expecting this at all. I feel better than I've ever felt in my life I feel. I know this won't last forever, life is full of pain and stress, but waking up from being numb is simply incredible. There really is a light at the end of the tunnel. Being able to feel basic human emotions again is just wonderful.

I am so damn proud of myself. I might even drop to 20mg tomorrow... fuck it, why not. I know I can do it. This oxy has nothing on me now. I should probably wait a few days though... I've been through hell. I just don't like feeling so good when I know there is still a lot of work to be done. I've got restless legs right now though so maybe it's a sign to take it easy. Also, I am so skinny you can see all these veins... it's weird. I have really lost a lot of weight doing this. I just know this will be over soon enough and I will be looking back laughing my ass off at how screwed up I got. I cannot believe I became a junkie... how fucking dumb do I have to be to get hooked on heroin and oxy's. aaaaahahahahahaha. Trust me friends, you will start to feel amazing​ if you stick with it. It doesn't even take long if you just really suffer for a bit.

I only slept one hour last night, but nothing can phase me anymore. I've been beaten to the ground so bad that I just don't care anymore. I will take the shit kicking until I'm off the stuff. I even started to forget to dose on time. I'm almost through this shit but the last little bit is going to be the hardest I think.
 
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^Can you give the dilaudids to someone to hold... or better, yet, just flush them down the toilet? You don't want to spend several days feeling guilt and remorse over taking them. You sound better than you ever have on this thread.
 
Good for you!!:D Why put yourself through all that again, when you already have come out the other side? Your self esteem will continue to grow and life will get better each day, as you already know. When I quit drinking a saying I would use often was " I was taking alcohol off the table"... meaning it was no longer an option. It sounds like you are taking "dilaudid off the table".
 
Hey, I just PM'd you the link.

Now I just have to figure out how to deal with the extreme agony. Played guitar for 30 minutes before my back gave out this morning. I remember now why I started using. I have to figure out some way of dealing with this. I am going for acupuncture asap and a massage, this is just fucked.

Supplements I would recommend:

Inflammation: turmeric with black pepper; pineapple

Anxiety: L-theanine, Valerian tincture, Chamomile Tea

Liver health: Milk thistle

Sex drive for men who have lost it to opiate abuse: Gelatinized maca root powder

Nausea: ginger

General health: Vitamin B complex; camu-camu berry (vitamin C and antioxidant source), Spirulina, Wheatgrass, protein supplement (whey or hemp)

Constipation: Green Tea, Kombucha (even if kombucha doesn't do shit, it's still awesome. I personally think it is excellent for digestion)

Blood pressure and vasoconstriction: L-Arginine (recommended by a friend, they were out of it at the store)

Full body muscle aches and restlessness: Magnesium (I get 100% pressed-buckwheat crackers that are full of the stuff)

I think this stuff is helping my health so yeah. Just be careful where you get this stuff as health food stores tend to rip people off as bad as cannabis dispensaries. Also, if they try to sell you anything just research it first, as again, it's easy to get ripped off. By the way, cannabis does fuck all for me. I'm dealing a lot better with this since I cut out the hash. Not sure if it's like that for everyone, but that stuff honestly just makes me weak-minded and stupid. I smoked for the giggles and I'm happy that I quit. I personally can't be serious about getting clean without cutting out everything that gets me high in any way.

This was from less than two weeks ago. I can't believe how much progress I have made. I really started taking it seriously and the progress is happening fast now. I think that for a long time when I first joined this thread, abusing pills was still okay with me as I was just trying to fight off the heroin cravings. It's insane for me to think about how much progress I have made in these last 9 days. Also, I feel like the cannabis was destroying my memory. I have total memory lapses while I was dabbing all day every day. I can't believe I was sitting around feeling like shit and the only thing I was doing to try to make myself feel better was using enormous quantities of cannabis. That wasn't working! I hardly even remember what happened and I kept relapsing, I just wasn't serious about it. So long as I live, I will never use cannabis in any way, shape, or form again.

So yeah, me less than two weeks ago:

"alright I have calmed myself. I took a long, hot shower and it's time for some yoga. I honestly just hope I did not overdose myself at this point. I took 15mg ir oxy and sniffed 10mg hydromorphone but that's a lot for me with my significantly lower tolerance. I'm nodding off right now. I rarely do anything other than oxycodone. I don't have much benzos in my system though, at least. I'll skip my nightly dose."

Honestly, that doesn't even sound like me.
 
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I had fallen into the bag of taking other medications hoping they would help me get over the hump in my oxy taper. I figured out Lyrica would get me pretty trashed at a low dose, so I tried replacing my oxy with that and then calling it a win when I took less oxy that day. Problem was it only led to me needing extra oxy the next morning and having a hangover from the Lyrica. According to my notes, the Lyrica made it hard for me to stay at my current dose of oxy in the end. Sometimes I would have to take a whole 30mg pill to get any relief. That would be before 9 am just to get my head together and only last me for 2 hours.
I'm back to only Ativan and oxycodone. It sucks, but it definately sucks less. I cut my pills into 1/4th's now and take 8 doses daily. That hits my planned new target of 60 mg/day and I don't have to suffer for more than an hour before my next dose.
I'm not trying to say I've found the holy grail, but at least I'm getting closer to a solution. I take about 25 mg at night to make up for the doses missed while I sleep and it makes me happy to have that to look forward during the day when I am suffering. I had been taking that extra dose early around 4 am, but that only set me up to fail when I knew I had taken 1/2 my day's pills before the day even started.
Shroomy and Pokemama- thank you for your kind words. I know my wife and son would miss me and sometimes that is the only thing keeping me alive. But when I decide it's time i'll just go and be gone.
 
Hi Squeaky: I also take small, more frequent doses on my tapering plan, and it works much better at this time. Sure, I have tried to extend the time between doses, and sometimes I succeed. But right now, I am in physical therapy and need to have some energy, so my goal is maintaining at current dosage. I say, whatever it takes.

Shroomy: I have nothing but compassion for you. I am just wondering what it would be like for you to set a boundary around time spent with ex? Maybe she is just too triggering, emotionally, to handle at this stage in your recovery. I don't know how important it is for you to maintain contact with her, but she sounds toxic. Just sayin.
 
You sound so much calmer! I sometimes struggle with wanting to just let you other posters know I am reading your posts, and with giving advice. Please let me know if you want me to withhold feedback. I do believe we all have the answers we need within ourselves, however, if we are emotional it may takes us awhile to access those answers.
 
Hopefully this thread can be revived, and I will continue contributing towards it. I have made a new personal thread however in sober living.

My thread: All about me and my trainwreck. Support for heroin cravings that could instantly kill me if I go back to it, dealing with the extreme stress of my ruined life without any drugs at all, dealing with borderline disorder and getting over a toxic relationship, career options, healing with psychedelics, healing from past trauma.
 
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Ever since I abused that dilaudid, I feel like I got so high that I fried my brain. It ruined my recovery and everything I had going for me. It transformed my state of mind so that I feel there is no longer hope. I just want to die at this point, or start using heroin again. I cannot live another day like this. It has been 3 days now, and I still feel like complete shit. It ruined my recovery, and the hope I had for my future.

Too bad everyone is gone as this is the one time I actually feel like I need to talk. I am feeling suicidal. My borderline symptoms have never been worse since I quit smoking hash at the same time as this, and I guess I scared everyone away. I'm planning on ending my life in the near future, as I simply no longer see the hope that I had going on before I abused the dilaudid. I just don't understand how 12 hours of being high could change everything so drastically. I ruined the last chance I had at ever living a normal life.

edit... well I started taking Ibogaine at low doses and that sure as hell fixed that.
 
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Dude, no! You had a slip up. We've all had them; I think to be successful, we need to accept that we're going to mess up once in a while. Pick ourselves up, start again. You're doing so great; don't let one mess up bring you down. We're here for you, even if we don't always check in, we're sending you virtual good vibes.
 
Thanks - I'd like to share one thing. Ibogaine can be extremely helpful for mitigating withdrawal symptoms and cravings. I took a low dose of it this morning, when I was feeling really down, and it immediately changed my mood from suicidal ideation to feeling like my good old self. It's really powerful stuff... it has activity on the mu-opioid receptor kind of like subs or methadone, but it's not physically addictive... it's a really weird psychedelic.

I'm pretty much over the slip-up now. I mean, it was such a miserable thing to experience that I sure hope I'd have the common sense not to repeat it. 6 hours of heaven is simply not worth 3 days of hell and a huge setback. I'll be okay. I've been tapering as usual since then.

I'm trying to work on my mental health issues. It is more important than tackling my chronic pain. My mental health has never been worse, and I think it was a bad idea to quit daily hash use at the same time, as it helps with my borderline issues which simply explode for a while when I get off the stuff. I am very toxic at the moment interpersonally. I have insulted a lot of people close to me over absolutely nothing because something will trigger my borderline symptoms, and when that happens I am capable of the emotional destruction of a soul in the blink of an eye. My brain has no filter, it just sucks. Nothin worse than a borderline junkie in wd's, that is why I'm pretty much posting to myself now.

I'll stabilize soon enough, just gotta have the right mindset and keep at it. At 35mg today. Thanks Ibogaine.

If you are interested in psychedelic use for healing, that is the direction my other thread has went. The most important thing for me right now is just to apologize to anyone whom I've hurt from stupid fucking borderline attacks. There is no filter as to what I will say and I just turn into a monster. The withdrawal is exacerbating the symptoms by an order of magnitude, it's that bad.
 
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Fifth day off oxycodone. I'm hitting the depression and craving stage. I don't want to take it, I just don't want to feel like this. I won't use opiates of a lesser god to get off, so no Kratom posts please. I just want to get through the anhedonia. I'm cramming food, cites, and pills down my throat. I don't have a ton of support here but I'm grateful for any. I feel alone and exhausted and like this is futile.
 
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