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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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Thanks for the support. I can relate to everything you are saying. Good luck today. So far I haven't slipped. Yesterday was Hell though. Worst sleep yet cause I ran out of my weed I was using to help. Today is better mentally but not physically. I have the same reaction to oxy that you describe, but I'm sure the effects will be better with less use. I could not have foreseen how drastic the change in metabolism of oxy has been when I began using.

I'm more concerned about not being so physically addicted anymore though. I can't even regulate my body temp without it. I am so screwed how did this happen. I'm sure I am not the only one asking themselves that question. The oxy's already are working more effectively but I'm still walking on eggshells trying to watch out for the rabbit hole. I have to do the every 6 hours thing because for me I need discipline. The moment I take an extra to do something or when I'm feeling rough, my taper turns into an escalation. That's just how it goes for me. Might even be another few months before I work up the nerve to try again, because - like beating the drug increases my self esteem, losing myself within it decreases my self esteem.

Borderline disorder scares me knowing I have that. I have every symptom, it's tough to treat and was caught so late in my life. Always knew something wasn't right, but this is a very serious and complex problem I didn't know existed.

I am feeling okay, and I've been moving around more today. I feel more alive mentally. Took a shower, I'm sure that I'm capable of shaving this beard I have grown without noticing. It seems like there was a major difference between today and yesterday, at least mentally. I am able to concentrate enough now to read, or watch tv, get outside, little things like that.

Peace! Keep strong because the relapses are never fun past the first few doses...
 
My story is very similar to Shroomy's and Pokemama's: I have high functioning Autism. I used to control it with Alcohol, to the point that I was so functional that my family and even people at work made sure I had plenty of booze whenever I needed it because that's when I was the strongest both physically and mentally. Most people who really knew me preferred me NOT-sober.
I haven't drank alcohol in 18 months. Now I have Ativan(Lorazepam) to help control meltdowns/ panic attacks, and the opiates help with the voices in my head as well as the screws in my back. Sometimes I give up on quitting the Oxycodone because my back hurts, sometimes because the mental and emotional relief that the pills provide seems to be reason enough to stay on them.
I'm trying to balance my desire and need to be free from the pills with the stress of managing my Autism, spine surgeries, and the general stress of life. I credit Alcohol with saving me from at least a hundred suicide attempts over the span of 20 years. Problem now is that my panic attacks went from a few hours to now they often last for 2-3 days. The oxy helps with that tremendously. Combine that with the feeling that the screws in my spine are working themselves loose every time I get out if a chair and I have myself a recipe for throwing my tapering plans out the window.
I am starting a taper again as of yesterday. I was at 90 mg/day. My target for today is 60.
 
Squeaky: That must be a weird feeling... that the screws in your spine feel like they are working loose.... I want to share something that popped into my mind, that this is a marathon, not a sprint. And, I forget: do you want to get to a low maintenance dose, or do you want to quit completely? My aunt had a similar situation as yours. She had a hip replacement and a rod was placed in her leg. Around Christmas, she fell. Well, she didn't tell me, or her doctor, or well, anyone, that it felt like her rod (does that sound wrong, lol) had been knocked loose. Finally, she told her cardiologist. He immediately told her to go to her orthopedic surgeon. About 6 weeks ago, she had it replaced. She sounds like a new woman! She must have had so much anxiety around it and now, with no clunking sound, she feels so much better.

She makes me feel ashamed, even though she doesn't do it on purpose, as she does not know that I take pain medication. She only takes 5mg vicodin every night at bed.
She can't stand feeling constipated, lol. When she was in the hospital, she called me. She said she made them stop the morphine drip b/c her stomach felt awful due to having to go to the bathroom. She lives in another state, so asked me to send her that tea, Smooth Moves, since she couldn't get around to go to the store. (Her grown son lives with her, but that is another story). Of course, I sent it to her. But... she has a lot of issues....she just was so lucky that with all her operations, pain issues, bouts of cancer, etc. she never liked opiates.

Shroomi: Thank you for the reminder that the relapses are no fun past the first few doses... my mind conveniently has forgotten that many times in the past.... that, in a couple of days, I will be right back where I started: minimal pain relief and beginning of the chase.

I just finished mowing the lawn. I had to do it in sections since my knee is hurting so badly now. I took 1/2 of one of my 15mg oxycodone that I had been holding onto so that I have some in my system for my doctor appt on Tuesday with my new provider. I can actually feel it begin to work... it is a blessing that 7.5 mg is working. Anyway, I have been working on it for several hours.

I have felt so isolated, so alone for such a long time re: my use of opioids. I am an introvert by nature, and with working for myself, I have no co-workers to socialize with. Even though I would never tell them about my issues, at least I would be talking to people. Everyone posting here has helped me feel better, emotionally, than I have in a long time. It has been a week-end where everything good has come together: such nice and validating posts here, having the dogs for company helps as well, another BL friend has been emailing me with so much support and kindness that the shock of my doctor closing down does not upset me as badly as it did... I am on my way to acceptance.
 
It would be one thing if we had a pain free life to look forward to at the end of the day. I have borderline freakouts, panic attacks, wicked bad social issues, naturally depressed mood, unemployment, and my fucked up spine to look forward to. However. That is why I am tapering to a lower dose and not totally quitting. The drugs are no longer working - they might tell me they will provide relief but I know at this point it's bullshit. It's been over a week now and the improvement in effect is just great.

If I don't stop, by the end of the year I'll be using 200mg/day or heroin, I have been watching myself fall for long enough to know that I need to get control quick.

I know that there will be much more balance once I stabilize on these lower doses. I will have pain for sure, but it won't be debilitating. Even today, I watched a whole tv series and played my guitar really loud. That was fun, I can say that today was the first day I experienced any sort of pleasure or energy since I began this effort.

How low will I be able to taper? That is all going to depend on my natural pain tolerance, which I haven't really been in touch with too much these past couple years. I've been too high to be aware of the pain most of the time, and I'm curious if it has gotten any better at all. It's like you forget about what you were originally treating if you use too much.
 
POkemama- My goal is to get off of disability and back to my job. Nobody will let me back to work (that is my Dr or boss ) if I am taking these drugs. If I cannot live in relative comfort without drugs then I will have to get off of them at least long enough to go back to my job and transfer somewhere where I won't fear being drug tested. I have only a couple of months to make all of this happen before I am forced into an early retirement that won't pay my mortgage.
This is also the reason I am doing this without my Dr's supervision. After the first back surgery, i found myself in a lot if pain months after surgery. I was taking 60 mg oxy / day. I quit cold turkey because I feared my pain was a side effect of the pills. I told the doc, then when I was sure the pain was not from the pills a month had passed and the Dr would only give me 20 mg hydrocodone /day. That was totally F'ed up and I would have suffered for 4 months until the next surgery had I not stashed a bunch of percocet prior to quitting. This time I plan to quit without telling my Dr...... This way my Rx never changes more than I want it to.
 
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I seem to get the treatment of being a drug addict only when I am being the most honest with my Dr about how I am managing my situation on my own, particularly when I am pushing myself to take less than they are offering me.
 
I would never rely exclusively on my doctor for this kind of treatment. I know my pain better, and I know how the drugs affect me better. Also, I've noticed that doctors don't really know what they are talking about when it comes to chronic pain. A lot of the time it isn't ever diagnosed and you are just handed pills because it's the easiest thing for them to do. Not handed, you have to fight for them. I've heard contradictory diagnosis too. They are just dumb as fuck when it comes to back pain. That needs to change. The technology is there. At least in my case, they are not even trying anymore. All it is, is the fuckin pills. And then this happens... what do you expect out of a late-20's struggling male.

I know that sounds arrogant because it's a smart doctor, but health care is a disaster here and doctors are limited in what they can do. I just don't see how 2 minutes is enough time to spend with someone who is going through something like this. It's not just a fucking prescription refill. I have a lot to say every time. I've tried writing notes too, the response was to write less. It was a couple of fucking pages about my struggles. That's the best doc I could find out of around 30 though. I'm way better off tapering on my own with support like this.

I just go stoned as fuck and say 'yep, everything is all good' because that's what they want to hear and they just don't get it. I've put up so much of a fight and gotten nowhere, and they almost took my prescription away and kicked me out of the clinic for complaining about the pain so much. Well... isn't that what I am there to do? Like get another job if you can't fucking dealing with people in agony. They would cut me off of pills with no notice and not give a fuck. I've been on the edge about it. I go to other people than pain management to actually discuss viable alternative treatments (like my GP, who is much smarter). Why is pain management exclusively about opiates when I consistently bring up the fact that more needs to be done. Not only that, but the doctor has less than a minute to discuss how my opiate treatment is going. It's like they know I'm 'lucky' as a young adult to be in, and they are writing like fucking 6 month scripts and not even seeing me anymore.

When I became a 'legitimate' pain patient, nothing really changed. I was already on percs, and I kept taking the percs the same way. In years, my pain level is precisely the same as it was going in. I save a small amount of money on the drugs and that is it. It is beyond miserable, it's easy to forget too because you are so used to the negligence. And I choose to isolate myself from society, because when people notice I am in pain, I find it very awkward and the last thing I want to talk about. It can't really be hidden either, unless I am abusing the stuff people can easily tell how much I suffer. So... do I lay in bed for the rest of my life, or keep upping the dose of this shit. I am definitely split over it, but lowering your tolerance a bit is never a bad idea.
 
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ShroomySatori- dude you said it all. What are we to do when the Dr's first priority is fitting your visit into a small window of time regardless of what you've been throught that month? When the Dr is trying to balance the business of building his business while staying off the DEA's radar and dealing with insurance companies and all of the other crap they must have on their plate...... It's no wonder we can't get good service. My Dr told me that the pharmacy calls them and grills them about why I'm getting so much oxy. Even a good Dr has trouble being good the his patients, and there's a lot of crappy Dr's out there.
 
Yes exactly man. The pharmacists can be miserable people. I actually have a great PM doc but he has no time for me. There is such a disconnect between doctor and patient, particularly in pain management clinics I find. I have way better access to my GP, and I think I might head back to see her to ask about other options. I am also getting into counselling - it really does seem that the PM clinic just gives me the meds I feel that I need and nothing else (that's just my personal situation, and I don't blame my chill doctor they just don't have the time or resources).

Today was the best day yet. I am approaching the two week point pretty soon. I have a lot more energy in my mind today, but my body still feels like absolute shit. I am proud that I didn't relapse yesterday. I came very close to doing it. It would have been a little early for an extra dose. Tapering with percs works amazingly well if you still have the self control. I can totally tell my tolerance is down a teeny tiny bit and even though I am still getting interdose withdrawal, it is great to see at least some kind of promising change.

The real "epidemic" is this total lack of concern for some of society's most agonized people. People have been abusing opiates ever since the poppy plant has been around, and overdosing, so that really isn't anything new.

edit - last night was amazing too. I think I may have had my first recollection of dream fragments in a really long time. Today I woke up two whole hours past my dosing time. The past few mornings I woke up right on the dot, 6am, my brain telling me get out of bed and get to those pills. If that didn't happen this morning it is a great sign, but this is interesting. I woke up in extreme pain. My dose kicked in within 20 minutes and I had zero pain. I guess that was the first 'pain challenge' where I really needed something for the pain. I'm sure that soon enough I will be using exclusively for pain and it is going to feel really good! I see the light at the end of the tunnel now, I absolutely do. It has been around 10 days now, and I found the past few days to be the hardest to get through without a relapse.
 
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^Thanks for the details about your taper... especially about how you are feeling on the different days. It helps me to understand that tapering really works, I mean really works in terms of our body's ability to adjust to lower doses, and the fact that the pain is managed better and better as the taper continues, on lower doses of the medication.

From Squeaky's posts I also see that by sticking to the goal of tapering over a long period of time creates significant, successful results. I think, for me, it is crucial to hear about your successes. You both give me so much hope!

I can't believe that 2 weeks ago from today, I was on 50 mg of oxymorph, and today, very very little. There is some drama re: appt with my new doctor, not from him, but from others reviews of him, regarding past medical records from other doctor's. I am not going to trip over it; I will call a few of my past providers and ask them to fax my records today so that they have the necessary material; that is all I can do. If it ends up that he won't see me without records, which is highly unlikely, I will have three days free from any appointments or responsibilities so that if I am sick I can be sick without stressing about other responsibilities.

I will just look for another doctor; although options for pain management are very limited in my area right now. I am feeling remarkable well today, it is definitely "one day at a time."
 
Awesome work shroomi. Learn from my mistake..... Don't tell your doc the truth about your dosage decrease. Wait until you at least have time to build up a bank of reserves before he cuts you off.
 
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Pokemama, I figured it would help to share details. I think the 10% reduction each week will be good from here on out. Believe me when I say there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that I am capable of recovering really well. I was very doubtful over the weekend but not anymore. I really want to figure out what my true pain level is like and how much meds I require at minimum. It would be really cool if I could somehow get down to like 20mg oxy. You seem to be constantly chipping away at it sort of eh? It gets much more challenging when you have responsibilities like you do.

Hey squeaky, everyone makes mistakes dude. I don't think I have this time, because I am essentially about to fall down a bottomless rabbit hole. Don't be hard on yourself for messing up a taper, it even took me like 15 tries to quit smoking weed back in the day. And I didn't need it for anything like I do with oxy now. I can't bear the anxiety of living pill by pill anymore, so most days I will hopefully be taking less than my max daily dose. I'm not too concerned about being cut off in the future, so long as oxycodone continues to be produced. I would pass any drug test and I've been scripted for years and I have a lot of paperwork. Street drugs are out of the picture for good. I get a lot of refills too, ever since I have become a little more mature and stopped complaining so much.

There is definitely such thing as telling a 'white lie' - the meds are so hard to get even with paperwork and really my doc would probably be cool with me having a safety reserve so long as I'm not overusing. They throw me some extras sometime in a funny kind of way (only when I am being chill), and the pharmacy gives them shit about it. So it's pretty cool man, I have it really good actually. I get good meds and losing that privilege would be hell for me. If my doc retires, it might take some time to find someone I am comfortable with and that is what reserves are for. Or if I move. Not for overuse, but for healthcare concerns.

I've been taking 5-htp and definitely notice a difference. I take 200mg at night. I would highly recommend trying this supplement out if you have mood problems, and for this detox it has been great. Apart from that I'm just eating healthy, staying hydrated, and drinking kombucha (which seems to help with the constipation).

Hang in there man you are doing pretty much the exact same taper as me. It shows commitment that you are continuing to try and that is very impressive not to throw in the towel. If I can do this (and I'm pretty sure that I can), then so can you. Anyone can, it just takes a real commitment and not a haphazard commitment. I made some horrible mistakes recently related to being too high and that is why I am fighting this shit with a vengeance now. My withdrawal symptoms and erratic use cost me a couple really good job opportunities in the past month and I'm unemployed detoxing now. I know that I can have a normal life in the future. I already feel like I could start dropping further but I need to get my shit together for a few weeks at least.
 
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My target was 60 mg/day (down from 90). I did two days @ 80 mg , and today I'm on track for 75. This is more gradual than I wanted, but then that's probably why I failed before. At this rate it will be a month of tapering to zero, but then again my first failed attempt was more than a month ago.
Perspective seems appropriate here. ( I started at 150 mg/day 2 months ago so I guess overall it has worked. I no longer consider myself a pain paitent who requires 150/day and that is an achievement by itself)
 
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^That is amazing, Squeaky... I understand now why you are on the fast track...with wanting to have clean ua's so that you you can get a job... well it makes sense. Well done!

Shroomi: I will definitely look into the 5-htp as I have had mood issues since I was born.

Now, tomorrow is the big test for me. I am seeing that I am able to taper out of necessity; however, when I have my fresh refill, as I mentioned before, I plan the work, babysitting, yada yada, when I can increase my dosage. That is no longer how I want to live my life... I want the taper to be the focus, not the responsibilities.

I should be able to get my oxycodone refilled tomorrow; and the oxymorphone by the week-end. The oxymorph has wrecked my oxycodone tolerance. My goal is to keep my oxycodone dose at 60mg a day, or lower. That is 4 doses, or 8 if I split them. I anticipate I will be a little sick during the 2 hours or so before I am able to dose.
But you two, Squeaks and Shroomi, have been able to do it... that is so much motivation for me to be able to do it. I don't know if my metabolism is weird, but I only need 10 mg-15mg of oxymorphone ER a day to not get sick, at this point. However, the beginning of last month, for example, I needed a minimum of 90 mg of oxycodone to keep w/d symptoms away.

I wonder if there is something significant about the 60 mg dose of oxycodone and tolerance. It has been over a year, I think, since I was able to make due on 45 mg or less.
My goal is to post here, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, how much oxycodone I have honestly taken.
 
Keep us informed on your sucess/progress POkemama. You are inspiring me to take this more seriously and maybe I'll make it also.
 
It's so awesome to not go through this alone. It sucks that you can't use a tool you need to work to get work, squeaky. If I couldn't use my meds, there is no way I could work.

I'm trying to be honest with myself, every time I dose, to make sure I'm taking it for pain, not for mood or anything else.

I'm very excited about 5htp. I'm going to look into that right away. Unfortunately, antidepressants make me gain tremendous weight. But I definitely need something now. Thanks for sharing, Shroomy! And good for you, seeing the light. I truly feel that making that turn makes all the difference.
 
Let me know what you think of the 5-htp if you try it. It is definitely doing something positive for my mood, but overall I am starting to feel like myself much faster than I had anticipated. I guess I was anticipating the worst, as in months of disfunction. I'm already able to function again. I still don't trust my mind one bit and could slip up any day. I'm beginning to think of how I am going to drop down from 60mg now (I think just like another 2.5mg every week taken off some dose, since now that my dosage is reasonable, if I have self control there's no reason to rush it).
I used a lot of orally active hash oil the first week so if you can get that and like weed I highly recommend. I wouldn't be able to smoke anything because that makes me feel like shit, edibles are too filling and fatty, dabs can generate panic, but orally active THC is excellent for beating the mental part.

I had to do that first larger cutdown to show myself that I mean business this time, but from here on out it should be much more relaxed.

edit - my acute withdrawal is essentially over and there is no sign of any PAWS approaching the 2 week mark, I don't think there will be Paws since I'm still using. Everyone seems to be doing well. It's hard to find support but encouragement helps so much. Like squeaky dude you slipped up a few times but so long as you keep trying I think you'll find it easier than you think, plus, you are still on a downward slope and have gotten used to a significantly lower dose, that's awesome to hear.
I heard sex or masturbation is good to do in acute withdrawal, because it helps reboot natural endorphin production somehow. My sex drive is back real strong, it's almost painful waking up to it after so long. I think that's a pretty common side effect of opiates if I'm not mistaken. I was pretty much a vegetable on the higher daily doses which was very emasculating, when you are in your late 20's and more interested in oxycodone than women, but that has very clearly changed this past week.
 
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Thx Shroomy. I had the same problem with sex drive on opiates. It is pretty sad when there's a beautiful naked woman in bed next to me and all I want to do is go to sleep. Mine is coming back now that I'm lowering my daily intake.
My current plan is simply 'Never go backwards' I am now trying to lower my daily dose by no more than 5 mg/ day even if I feel I can handle more. Every previous try I got slipped up by having a good day, going extra agressive on my taper, then having a bad day on top of my extra withdrawls and giving up on the whole damn thing just so I wouldn't be suicidal. Two days later I would be struggling to get back DOWN to the dose I had started at.
New taper plan. I started at 90 mg/day. I either take no more than yesterday or cut today's dose by no more than 5 mg. I can maintain forever at yesterday's dose, or cut by 1/2 to 5 mg today but no more. Every morning I check my ledger to see what I was at yesterday. I make a schedule for the day. Then , when I have completely F'ed up today's dosages, I force myself to stick to the main plan. On good days I cut my dose by a few mg's. On bad days i spend half the night in withdrawls. But I never go backwards on my dose reduction.
On good days I even get a chance to get a little high and lower my daily dose by 5 mg if I am a good little boy all morning and save my pills for the evening.
 
How long have you been using pain meds Squeaky? My girlfriend was like, "WHAT, you have a sex drive???" and came rushing over haha. It was great. Yeah man you just need to be at a lowish dose to avoid sexual side effects. 60mg isn't gonna stop me, especially if I stick to my yoga exercises to boost up testosterone.

That is a good plan man, taking it slow. It's best to shock the body as little as possible. I am all for tapering if you have enough meds to do it, and the self control. Just because self control is tough at first doesn't mean you can't develop it with effort. It's so critical that we act fast because of the tolerance escalation. People end up in really nasty situations, that make what we are going through look like a cozy, happy, and stable existence. They are the ones who didn't quit soon enough.

Your second paragraph hit home. An extra dose is a huge deal, although it might not seem like it. It strengthens my resolve because I am aware that tolerance goes back up very quickly. It goes up about an order of magnitude faster than it goes down once you have a long term habit. I actually find that I go up, and then some in a relapse - possibly as a defense mechanism to try and discourage me from attempting something so physically exhausting in the future that I failed at. Just a stoner theory right there, I've been dabbing quite a bit of hash lately.

My plan is to go from 60mg to 30mg daily dose by the end of the year. I will be taking it very easy after I shocked my body like that these past couple weeks to get down to 60. I'd hate to try 50 now and then ruin it all, even though I sort of feel up to that. I generally haven't been taking care of myself so well. I'm gonna need a bit of a break, and I don't mean extras, just tapering more slowly so that I don't have an outburst and pop a handful of them.

I don't trust myself getting high on them anymore at all. Part of the problem was that I would suffer withdrawal for hours to save up some pills so that I could feel really good. Or I'd use them all during work hours and then crash at night and be unable to rest. That never worked out for me... I actually ended up thinking of it as addict behaviour.
 
Just checking in after the worst day ever. I went to new pain management... doctor was very compassionate and smart. He changed my oxycodone to oxymorphone IR 5mg; along with my oxymorphone ER 10mg. I went to/called over 10 pharmacies.... no one carried either! I was about to start withdrawals any minute.

I called the doctor and asked could I come back, give him the oxymorphone IR 5mg script back, and get the oxycodone. He said yes.. office would stay open to wait for me, as it is downtown rush hour crazy traffic. OMG... it was like I was going to cop H... which I never have, by the way.

So. finally, nice pharmacist filled the oxycodone, and will order the oxymorphone ER,.. should be here by the week-end. Now... if today was not a sign that I must taper, taper taper... nothing is. I know that although I am frustrated and exhausted that I will not deviate from my plan. I will not go faster or slower. Of course, I took my oxycodone. Alright... the truth.... I took an extra half. ( I told myself I "deserved" it.). I deserve a kick in the butt for taking it. I am going to see what happens now that I have a firm goal of 15 mg every 6 hours. It will be hell... oxycodone feels so weak after oxymorphone. At least I can taper. The problem is: I am only prescribed 3 a day but that is for the days I am taking my 20 mg oxymorph. I will figure it out when I am not so tired. So glad you guys are here... I can just cry. There is more, but I will write later.
 
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