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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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P0kemamma will try to send you message (not sure if 2nd character is O or 0)
 
Today is the first day I am capable of experiencing happiness since I fried my brain with the dilaudid about a week ago.

It seems that the one slip up generated an extreme high that blew away all the progress I had made emotionally... which makes sense I suppose as I felt Nirvana for 6 hours...

So bad. And then my physical wd's were still at the same spot - so I was experiencing the anhedonia without the regular wd's to take my mind off things. It was awful, I was an emotional wreck after the dilaudid but I feel better now.

Anyone else notice increased wd's from being active? I usually lay around depressed, but today I have been keeping myself busy all morning with various activities. I notice muscle aches, restless legs, and nausea. I think it is just from taxing my brain which is used to being useless. There is no anhedonia anymore though and that's all I care about.
 
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I have been trying to post...I am getting "server busy" message...hope it works this time.
I often have to forego my tapering plans when I babysit/dogsit due to the extra activity causing withdrawals to set in earlier and stronger. So, yes, Shroomy, definitely, being active requires me to take more medication so I can leave the house without worrying about w/d issues arising. I almost feel like putting my taper on the shelf...I have a lot of appointments/family obligations, etc during the coming months. I am not able to decrease my tapering dosage; in fact, when I leave the house, I need to make sure I have oxycodone with me for breakthrough issues. I find this very disheartening, as I can exist on the oxymorphone only tapering schedule when I am home for the day.
I now understand why some people state that tapering is very difficult... well, because it is.

Shroomy, what you have accomplished during your taper, overall, is nothing short of astonishing! You must either have strong will power or a great tolerance to withstand pain. Kudos to you!

I will continue with my struggles for now so that I do not get in the habit of taking the oxycodone regularly, in addition to the oxymorphone. I would like it to be only oxycodone, as I have shared previously, but need the time and space to do this. I really believed that by tapering slowly I would avoid withdrawal. Not true - w/d is not as harsh, but it is there. I don't know how to increase my pain tolerance levels for the RLS and vomiting... my anxiety skyrockets when these w/d symptoms appear. I will continue to work on this.
 
Shroomy- I have felt all different sorts of WD symptoms at different levels on my taper.
EX: at 90 mg/day I felt nauseous all of the time , but at 60 mg/day I am anxious and lethargic. Perhaps your troubles are related more to your current dose and less to your activities?
 
Possible reasons I can come up with:
-Short term baclofen withdrawal from 2 weeks use during acute wd's for muscle aches (unlikely)

-The line of cocaine I did a few days ago as my brain was seeking alternatives, and I don't even like coke (very likely)

-Entering the post-acute withdrawal phase of opioid withdrawal for the first time, shortly after the physical wd's have subsided (somewhat likely)

-The THC from constant, high dose hash oil intake finally leaving my system after a few weeks (not impossible, but unlikely sole cause)

-Stress related. Unrelated to drugs as I have a pre-existing panic disorder, and I'm not really experiencing any withdrawal symptoms at all anymore at this dose after three weeks (it's probably this)

-I am addicted specifically to klonopin, which I haven't taken in a week (unlikely, but definitely possible as it has a specific anti-seizure action exclusive to this drug compared to other benzos, and I almost always take 2mg klonopin daily at night, and no other benzos)


So yeah dude I think it is related to the extreme stress of waking up to my ruined life and all the shit I have been through in wd’s. To be honest I am planning a full relapse without ever looking back. I have been dosing raw Xanax and Etizolam powder very liberally, I have a scale but I just don’t care. Could be anything from 2 to 20mg but I just don’t give a damn at this point. It is self destruction at its finest. I cannot handle sober life and waking up. It's also just the crushing loneliness I can't handle from being without a woman for so long, and seeing no way out of that. Opiates take away my drive to form positive, mutually beneficial relationships with the opposite sex, and that makes things a lot less frustrating for me. There is also something else I realized about my past that is too uncomfortable to talk about, when I was on the psychedelic Ibogaine. I hope that is not where the additional anxiety is coming from, because that would be way tougher to control in that case.

It takes my body a week to recover from a slip-up causing anhedonia, so hopefully it just takes my body a week to recover from whatever is causing this extreme, extreme, relentless, miserable anxiety that makes cold turkey withdrawal look like a nice, sunny day at the beach. I would honestly take the physical wd's of full body muscle aches, restless legs, and nausea for the rest of my whole entire life - as well as my chronic pain at its finest - if this extreme, relentless panic somehow could go away in return. It's that awful. I can't handle it. You know I want to get well friends, but this anxiety is not something I am able to handle.

Also, I won't be logging in again until I can get this anxiety somehow managed. I am no longer struggling with tapering or opiates, but rather extreme anxiety of an unknown origin. If it goes away in a few days I will never be more thankful in all my life to be alive. I will never use disgusting coke again. Who knows what was in that shit but I've been this way ever since that night. Just know that I am going through a period of relentless, non-stop hardcore panic attacks and self medicating with abusive, risky benzo doses, and that if things don't change by the end of the week then I'm planning to relapse since I can't fry my brain with benzos for very much longer than I have.

I swear it was some garbage in that disgusting coke because I was fine anxiety-wise before that night - so hopefully I'm still just crashing from it as I am hypersensitive to stimulants. Then again, the reason I did coke was because I was seeking alternatives and the symptoms were changing from less physical to cognitive. I mean, I was getting anxiety prior to the bump but nothing anywhere even close to 1/10th as much. And I had a horrific experience that night, almost ended up going to the hospital. Hopefully I am good in a few or it is inevitable that I will have a full relapse. I'm focussing on trying to be stress free. I obviously do not want the relapse, but this kind of hardcore anxiety makes me want to hang myself. I am still here in spirit.

And there is one thing that gives me hope. The sleezebag who I got this off also has meth. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together and realize that I had unintentionally ingested coke laced with meth. The poison-low (refuse to call that filth a high) lasts for 24 hours, and it can be detected 3 to 4 days later in urine. This gives me a lot of hope. It has just been 3 days since that Horror Night. Maybe I just need to wait a few days and my anxiety will be back to normal.

And I am not running away just because I am dealing with a different problem now. I will always keep posting here, but this issue is so extreme that it requires 100% of my attention right now. I woke up this morning having another attack. I am in no position to be posting here or offering support to anyone in this state, I just have to be alone while I try and figure out where this extreme anxiety is originating. Anyways, just so people are not that worried this is my anxiety plan for the next week until I check in again:

-Switch to Klonopin only. It is a strong possibility that I am addicted specifically to Klonopin, and no other benzo has the same effect. Klonopin is the longest lasting, hardest to abuse, and has a specific anti-seizure action that other benzos don't. I am actually praying it is just this since it has been a good week since I took any Klonopin and that is the benzo I am almost always using because it is the hardest to abuse, remains the most effective with long term use, and I only have to take it once a day. NO more raw powders before I black out and completely fuck myself over. But high doses of klonopin (4mg to 6mg daily as opposed to the regular 2mg for this week)

-Stop taking all supplements with the potential to interact with benzos, like Valerian (this could very well be it too)

-continue baclofen as prescribed to make sure it isn't withdrawal from that, and it is easy to taper off that shit

-Don't watch movies like Boogie Nights that make me have the 'monkey see, monkey do' mentality and use drugs I don't even enjoy like coke

If it is not any of those things, then chances are I've just fucked my brain with anxiety to the point of no return and, to anyone who has used a lot of benzos and opiates, it's obvious which is the better family of drugs to abuse. I'd sooner start iv heroin than abuse benzos like I have been lately because they make me feel really stupid in the head, and heroin just doesn't.

My blood pressure is at 150/90 at best... when I am typically at a consistent 120/80. Not good. Not healthy.
 
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I can already say with certainty that it was just from not taking the klonopin. After I reinstated the clonazepam, I haven't had any panic attacks.

I was fucking around with short acting benzos as I felt the panic attacks were so extreme that I needed the shortest-acting benzos, but those don't work as well for my condition as the klonopin. I got out for lunch yesterday with my mom and grandma and it was nice. So now I'm just lonely and very depressed, not anxious anymore. Before I began to escape with drugs, I experienced crushing loneliness 24/7, no matter where I was or what I was doing. I feel like I have reverted to that original state.

There's always something wrong. I don't need to stop posting here though for any longer, why would I? I have nothing to do anyway and it helps to write. I don't think I would start abusing my pills again at this point. I was thinking, for example, about how I have a trip to Florida booked next year. What am I going to do if I am doing heroin then? I won't be able to travel. I love the beach, and the travel aspect alone is worth not to be a drug addict for. I am just going to stick with my prescribed dose... besides, it's starting to get me a little high like the good old days. I was definitely high yesterday during lunch, as I had the bright idea to take my extended release a couple hours before my instant release so I had some pleasant energy from 20mg going on.
 
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I am back to getting a little high at a relatively low dose too. It's really nice to get a buzz at 15 mg when two months ago I was taking 150 mg/day and never feeling high.
 
Yo Squeaky how did you say you get the max effect? I find taking my 10mg ER dose on an empty stomach, followed by a light, but fatty meal (like a small tuna steak flash-fried in avocado oil with fresh avocado and cilantro, for instance), and then my IR dose about an hour later gives me the best effect. If I take pills on an empty stomach, they seem to just run through my body and I'll hit wd's sooner (well, my withdrawal is pretty much just my natural depression at this point).

Yeah dude. I remember just a year ago I was happy to get high off 15mg. Now I can get noticeably high off 20mg again, I mean just a little bit, and that is really the reason why I wouldn't consider going back to higher doses than prescribed. Too much of a hassle, I am only going to keep getting higher as my tolerance drops. Oh yeah, and the pain relief. My back pain is totally managed now at this dose level.

Pretty much could have written what you wrote there myself.

p.s... think of all the pills we wasted!!! I wasn't getting high when I was in the hundreds of milligrams. I was getting deeper and deeper into the depths of hell. I'd take 30mg IR and be sick 3 hours later. I am feeling that pleasant, cheerful, functional, euphoric energy boost from the oxy's again, it is very noticeable. I definitely crash hard though for the hours before I get to dose again. It's worth it for the high (I dose 12 hours apart so I can take higher doses and get high, really). It's still really helping my back pain and I couldn't function without it; I would say the euphoria is a not-unwanted side effect.

So long as I am prescribed this stuff, I won't be dosing any lower. The high is just great, the pain relief is pretty decent (I still have some pain), and it just keeps me going. Something to look forward to. A nice little high every 12 hours.
 
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I have my pain management appointment today, and then head out of town for the Thanksgiving holidays. I hate being an addict: I have to pack the stuff I use to crush my oxymorphone and have to be so secretive about it, due to sniffing it. I am so frustrated with this problem I almost feel like telling my doctor... almost. However, I would freak out too badly if he were to just cut me off 100% instead of helping me... I have major trust issues with medical providers.
Therefore, I will just be quiet, and hope to remember how badly I feel... the frustration, shame, imprisoned... so that when I return home I can deal with the withdrawal symptoms instead of allowing them to defeat my attempts to do a meaningful taper.
Happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate the holiday!
 
Do not tell your doctor. Seriously. Also, you shouldn't feel ashamed Pokemama. I'm not sure of your specific chronic pain problem, but you clearly need the meds and might not be getting prescribed enough. In any case, even if you are abusing there is nothing at all to be ashamed of. Society generally views opiate users in a very demeaning way and I am personally really against that. I've had cocaine-addicted friends who obnoxiously try to force lines on me, but then claim they are allergic to opiates as they view them like the plague, and never looked at me the same way when they found out I tried heroin. Up here in Canada, cocaine use is as socially acceptable as alcohol in many social circles, and it is absolutely horrible for you. My body had trouble handling a single line the other day... just remember, at least we wound up on a drug with therapeutic benefits to get hooked on, and it causes no long term side effects whatsoever on human health, pretty much. You are doing that because you are in pain. Not because you are recreationally getting all high.

I hope you have a good Thanksgiving. Just don't be ashamed of yourself over using pills. There is nothing to be ashamed of even if you are abusing. Just hide it from everyone or people will look at your differently and possibly gang up on you. That's the sad reality of the way our society socially discriminates against addicts. There are huge stereotypes, when most people use drugs that are way worse for your health like alcohol and cigarettes. It's good that your are tapering of course, but you have not a damn thing to feel guilty about.
 
^Thank you very much, S! I feel better after reading this. The worse thing about pill addiction is that it is rampant in the US. I read recently that 1 in 7 Americans have an abuse/addiction problem. (21 million people). Much of this is opiate related. So sad. Obviously, a lot of people are walking around and hiding it well, for at least some amount of time. I would like very much to NOT be that 1 in 7.
Hang on to your level of dosing with all your strength... you worked very hard for months. So did Squeaky.
 
Thanks, and that is a crazy statistic. I hope they don't cut me off my meds for some stupid political reason because I really do need them to function with my pain. I'm not going to slip - especially now that I can actually feel my prescribed doses and even get a little euphoric energy from them. Just goes to show how much progress there has been, when these doses would still have me in horrible wd's a month ago, even at peak effect there would be very little relief from the symptoms. Now, they get me kinda high.
 
I am back home from the pain management appointment and getting ready to leave soon. It went well and I just kept my mouth shut about my tapering. I realized something after reading your latest post: ^ When I am withdrawing, I think it will last forever... the physical parts of it. I forget that we move through it and that they do eventually end; I get so anxious that I get stuck in the moment. Of course, with distorted thinking like that I cave. I need to tell myself that they will decrease with time as my body adjusts.
 
It normally takes me between two to three weeks to become stable when I make a medication adjustment (well... I think it's safe to say I am never quite stable : p). Of course, that seems like forever at the time.

I have no physical wd's whatsoever at this point. When I first started, the 12 hour waiting periods were unbearable and I was never comfortable. I get depressed and lethargic during the hours before it is time for me to dose again - but that will eventually probably go away too, especially once I ask for more ER meds and less instant release (but the same overall dose).

I takes a while to see progress especially with the inability to feel pleasure at first. That is the worst part for me and begins to stop around 10 days in if I am strict. Then, there might still be withdrawals but you start to feel human again so it's not as bad...

I am still struggling a lot but it is all pre-existing emotional problems now. My back pain I'd say is well managed for the most part, and I am getting some ambition back which is nice.
 
I have some more thoughts... I forgive myself for the abuse. I took a nap, and I skipped my noon dose to wake up at 4pm. The pain was so extreme, I had trouble getting out of bed. I struggled to the washroom to brush my teeth, it was really tough for me to walk up the stairs and get a glass of milk and a banana to take before my pills.

One of my problems is that I feel obligated to get into engineering because of how tough the education was. However, I studied that before I had my injury. It is not within the limits of my chronic pain condition anymore, or I would have an office job right now working on engineering drawings. Whenever that happens, my pain becomes so extreme that I just end up abusing pills and spending the money I earn on them so I can make it into work. Not to mention how much discrimination there is in the workplace against people with chronic pain. It's just not for me anymore and I have to accept that. I have to adapt.

I have been looking for alternatives and I am considering becoming a professional musician. I am rapidly progressing and I want to increase my practice time from 4 hours a day to 8 hours a day. If I am going to be serious about this, that is what it will take - at least 8 hours of dedication to guitar every single day. My playing is already unrecognizable from just a week ago, and this talent is closely related to mathematical ability, which was my strength in school. This will get me somewhere in life, I'm not sure where, but somewhere, and it is well within the limits of my chronic pain condition. If I need to rest, I have the option of laying down on my heating pad for a while and reading a book, instead of sitting at the office in excruciating pain unable to do anything while appearing like a slacker to others. I see this very clearly now, how I have been ignoring a very strong talent that I have for music. For the near future, I will be focussing all of my time and energy on being the best guitarist that I can ever possibly be. That will get me somewhere, as opposed to trying to fit into the office life which is stressful enough for people who don't have extreme pain. It's just not for me, unless I want to be a heroin addict, and I refuse to raise my dose of painkillers for any job. Even if I was handed all the painkillers in the world, it wouldn't be enough for that type of employment. My tolerance would skyrocket, and I would be too numb to focus. I feel like I have something to live for now. Something to dedicate my life to, that I will never grow tired or bored of, never stop improving at. So that is what I am doing now (and trying not to be a borderline douche about it, changing my mind every day on what I want to do - I am fucking serious about this, I am honestly shredding it on the guitar after just a week of practice). Everything I do is improvised and of my own creative ability. I teach myself musical theory as I see fit. I'm great at writing lyrics from all the freestyle rapping I used to do stoned. This is what I will be doing with my life, as well as finding a simple part-time job which I can definitely handle as well.

My pain was so extreme that it devastated my life. Now, it has been an hour since I dosed and I don't feel the pain anymore. I am ready to time another one hour practice session on my guitar actually. These meds work so damn well for pain, I have no idea what I would do without them. As much as I abused them, I owe my life to them. I wouldn't be here writing this if I hadn't found a smart doc who was compassionate enough to prescribe me a low dose of oxycodone for it.

That pain was fucking extreme, and it wasn't withdrawal. It was my natural pain level that I felt for two years before getting into a specialist. Thank God for these pills, honestly. One of my greatest fears is that some asshole politicians will ban use of them for anything other than cancer pain, and then what would happen to me? I literally can't even get out of bed without them. Even laying on my heating pad in my comfy bed, there is no escaping it.

It's times like these that I realize what led me to my addiction, and how I can easily forgive myself for it. I wouldn't forgive myself for going back to abusing them, though. My doctor won't give me a milligram more than what I'm prescribed and it is because he is smart. I have to find balance with these medications and I feel like at my present dose, I have. There is still quite a bit of pain, but nothing like what I experienced waking up 4 hours after my dose. It was torture. My life was devastated by it before my pain began to be managed by oxycodone. I'll never lower my dose one bit, and I only hope that asshole politicians do not interfere in medical practice and impose new regulations on these drugs, which are miracle drugs in my opinion (especially oxycodone with it's high oral bioavailability and uplifting over sedating effect). That is one of my biggest fears... being cut off my meds. I know my doctor would never do it, but I feel like he is influenced by higher forces that be. And it totally sucks having to worry about that. They can never stop the abuse problem anyway - where there is a will, there's a way. I just hope I can keep getting this scripted for the rest of my life, it really helps me so much. I think I'm ready for another timed one hour of guitar practice. My playing is like night and day compared to a couple weeks ago. I can hardly believe it is me who is shredding like this, but pain, loneliness, and anxiety tends to do that. I need an emotional outlet and that's it for me.

I honestly feel like I have found my life calling, and it isn't some borderline bullshit this time. I am dedicating every waking moment of my life to this, apart from short breaks and cooking healthy food since guitar playing is actually a workout when I shred (another reason to do this, it will keep me physically healthy). I just know, with certainty, that I can accomplish something great through music. I have suffered so much and I could never be creative before I suffered. You really have to suffer I feel. I have a lot of emotion to transmute into beautiful music and it's really just exciting to me - especially when I see very rapid progress. Even my grandma enjoys my shredding these days.

edit - so I am really serious about this. I will never put myself in a situation again where I could be discriminated and harassed in an engineering workplace environment due to my chronic pain condition, and the only way of doing that is to never work for one of the bastards again. Last time, after telling them I had chronic pain they actually had me doing manual labour so that I could get a better grasp on what I was designing. It was fucking abuse and I had to take so much shit for it... oxycontin 80's, IR 20's, and fucking heroin just to get through that week of hell. They just had me working on light parts to 'accomodate' me. These fucking scumbags don't know a thing about chronic pain and it really is sad, because if I had something like autism I'm fairly sure I'd be fine to do engineering. They just don't understand, and every last one of them can go fuck themselves. I'll never bother applying for another one of those jobs again because time after time, I get harassed.

In the past hour and a half, I have already written a whole song. They just seem to flow naturally, and there is a lot of variation in my music due to the borderline shit and my constantly fluctuation emotions. This is a kind of grungy track, I think it's really nice. I asked my little bro if he'd check it out and do some vocals over it. So I will be recording it over the next week, and maybe you friends can let me know what you think once it's done.
 
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Shroomi- max effect for me= chew my pill, add 500 mg Tylenol(not chewed), all on an empty stomach. Wait 30minutes and have a heavy meal like steak and potatoes - no stimulants like sugar or caffeine. Then find a place to relax like watching a calm movie or sitting outside lustening to music.
 
edit - I think you are right man, I got high as fuck off 10mg percs on an empty stomach this morning. Now that I have a more abuse-oriented attitude, it's empty stomach all the way followed by bacon and eggs. However, I find that green tea adds to the euphoric cognitive stimulation of the oxycodone, while drastically reducing the side effect of constipation if had on a regular basis. Maybe I'll have to try chewing the pills lol. I have a pill crusher of course, but I don't like the bitter taste or the idea of bad breathe from it (super self conscious about shit like that). Maybe I can just cap them up with my 00's and see if that helps them kick in even quicker.

At first I doubted you, but I read up on it and a lot of people are saying the same thing. I'm just wondering how eating food 30 minutes later does anything to the high, when I am already high at that point in time (unless we are talking ER meds).

Well Squeaky my friend, you sure know what's up with this shit. Getting way stronger of an effect on empty stomach followed by meal, it probably just won't last as long but who knows.
 
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A full stomache is a big natural dopamine producer. Crush up the pills and give them time to be digested before eating. Then treat yourself to a big dopamine blast from a solid meal. It makes for a good combination.
 
I'm just editing this to apologize if I am letting anyone down. I couldn't handle it and I wasn't dealing with it right. You're not supposed to start extensively abusing benzos, that I'm already on to treat my panic disorder and that I really need. I was still abusing in other ways. I couldn't handle anything remotely close to sobriety. I'm not suicidal especially now that I have dope. I'm being very cautious with dose. I feel happy, energized, getting my health back. Of course it will not last, but it will last long enough to get the fuck out of this miserable basement of bad memories and pain. I feel that, for me personally, I very desperately need to get into therapy with a psychologist and also a psychiatrist if I have any hope of getting this under control. I will be fighting in other ways, because that's just what I do. I never give up, but this just wasn't working out right now. I will be fighting for a career in my field, a girlfriend, and a post-hardcore band before it's too late. The addiction can wait, until I am in a better life situation as if I spend any more time alone in this basement trying to kick without any support in real life, and like with my girlfriend us just splitting up... I can't handle it right now. I will be fighting in other respects, and I will continue to watch this thread and support my friends here that I've made too. I won't just run away and disappear, as I know that makes at least one or two of you worried - even though I have no desire to quit anymore. I am escalating, not tapering. I was suffering too much, both physically and emotionally and it was not just related to withdrawal. I'm really fucked up and I know I need serious help.


"Vapid souls check the market price. Lifetime slave living in a suburban grave. If there was a God, was a God, you would be the death of him" - Architects. Just thought I'd throw in some badass metalcore lyrics, haha
 
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