Positive The Tapering Support Thread v 2.0

[Ghostrae]

Thank you Ghostrae.

Your situation is less complicated than mine. At your age, with your physical issues, Percocet may not be a bad plan. But what I can offer as advice is this:

Opiates take away much more than physical pain. That’s sort of the reason I got hooked. The decision you have right now is whether these last years would be better for you if you have ‘pain’…. or if you have no connection to reality. And there’s probably a different way to mitigate the physical pains without detaching yourself from the universe.

I used to think that “detachment” was a bonus included with my pain relief. And it definitely was a bonus sometimes. But there’s things in life I would like to experience that I haven’t been ‘present’ for in several years.

I will say this much. I can not identify anything that I have lost by taking pain medication. Opiates/opiods never zonked me out. In fact oversedation is a state I have avoided.
Perhaps my memory is selective. Being in a co dependant situation seems an adequate discription of either obtaining drugs or using them. The psychology is there whether loved one or doctor patient relationship.
Maybe my nurses training has helped me avoid bad side effects. I'm an R.N.

 

[Squeaky]

I will say this much. I can not identify anything that I have lost by taking pain medication. Opiates/opiods never zonked me out. In fact oversedation is a state I have avoided.
Perhaps my memory is selective. Being in a co dependant situation seems an adequate discription of either obtaining drugs or using them. The psychology is there whether loved one or doctor patient relationship.
Maybe my nurses training has helped me avoid bad side effects. I'm an R.N.

I’m sure the negatives that you saw before your trip down Opiate Lane have helped you to not fall into the trap as deeply as I did. And I definitely didn’t lose anything from my life when I was on 2 Percocet’s per day. The mess really started for me when my Dr started prescribing me 150 mg of straight oxy per day, and everything accelerated to something exponentially worse when I got to 450mg per day. That’s really when I began losing stuff from my life that I didn’t even realize was gone.

It’s difficult to be ‘present’ with my family when I don’t even remember falling asleep at the dinner table, or when I’m sitting in dis-belief being told that my eyes were closed while driving on the freeway. Knowing that my bank account is overdrawn and having no memory of where the money went. Forgetting that I haven’t bathed in days (and not caring at all). Pooping maybe once per week, or 2 weeks. Getting ‘disciplined’ at work for not showing up at work on Monday morning because I didn’t realize the weekend had ended. Staining our white bedsheets when I don’t even recall cutting my foot, and bleeding on everything while I slept. Etc…

I’m not doing that kind of stupid anymore and it’s definitely a better way to live.

 

[Jerry Atrick]

So much hype surrounds "opoids". Reality and advertising are hard to separate. People are gulible. No, the withdrawal symptoms from the amount of otc opoid ( loperamide)(krayom) (herbal teas) (poppy seeds)or medical prescription strength pain meds will not cause the kind severe withdrawal caused by very high use products like those sold illegally.

Please be careful who you call "gullible" as some people, including those in the medical profession, are gullible enough to believe the medications they are prescribing/prescribed aren't dangerous, don't cause addiction, and are easy to quit.

The population of users have had to be introduced to the concept of "you have to take it every day! Thats the selling point for most drugs. Its money making business! Drugs from antidepressants to antihypertensives. In fact the tolerance throry is a little squirelly. I've needed more because my condition is progressive. I have more pain.
You might wonder where I got my information.

I agree that prescribing meds is a money making business and for profit healthcare needs to be laid to rest in the US. When it costs a company $7 to manufacture a vial of insulin when they turn around and sell it for hundreds, something is broken and it's the system.

However, I don't think tolerance is a "theory" as you say. That's like saying evolution is a theory that doesn't exist. Just because some items haven't been found in the fossil record doesn't mean tested, peer reviewed, hard science isn't able to prove it happened or is currently happening. Sure tolerance is a subjective experience that is difficult to quantify but that doesn't mean it does not happen.

Experience. 76yrs old. 50yrs taking drugs. 34 yrs old had a blotched surgery that had me on morphine round the clock. Falsly declared cancer riddled. Later prescriptions for strong opoids.. Then cut off abruptly. In the early 80's weaning, tappering, maintainance was not medical vocabulary.

Maybe that's because Big Pharma wasn't so efficient in peddling their meds in the early 80s as they are now. Like you said, it's a money making business and I'm somewhat certain that the pharmaceutical industry back then wasn't as out of control as it was/is in the decades that followed.

Also, like I said above, the need to wean, taper, or receive maintenance therapy is a subjective experience. Just because you have a will of iron and never got addicted doesn't mean others have been able to dodge that bullet. Have a little empathy or chrissakes. I thought you were a nurse.

When I was cut off either pain meds or benzos I do not remrmber any extreme withdrawal symptoms. I do not remember any nedical concern over the need to tapper.
How about sharing with the forum, some similar experiences u have had. The fact it was not hard to quit using.
The fact what separated u from an addiction was leaving off the last pill or smoke or whatever.

ter

And once again, subjective experience. Have you even read this entire thread or are you just jumping in at the end to add your self-proclaimed expert knowledge of all things addiction. Come to think of it, that is the exact sentiment of what a doctor/nurse from the 80s who is still practicing would say, just quit taking the drug. There's no such thing as addiction or tolerance Meanwhile the patient is in excruciating mental and physical anguish on the verge of a seizure because their dumbass provider cut them off from their benzo script due to being a heartless dinosaur who hasn't studied up on the latest research concerning all these effects. smh

 

[papercuts]

So much hype surrounds "opoids". Reality and advertising are hard to separate. People are gulible. No, the withdrawal symptoms from the amount of otc opoid ( loperamide)(krayom) (herbal teas) (poppy seeds)or medical prescription strength pain meds will not cause the kind severe withdrawal caused by very high use products like those sold illegally.
The population of users have had to be introduced to the concept of "you have to take it every day! Thats the selling point for most drugs. Its money making business! Drugs from antidepressants to antihypertensives. In fact the tolerance throry is a little squirelly. I've needed more because my condition is progressive. I have more pain.
You might wonder where I got my information.
Experience. 76yrs old. 50yrs taking drugs. 34 yrs old had a blotched surgery that had me on morphine round the clock. Falsly declared cancer riddled. Later prescriptions for strong opoids.. Then cut off abruptly. In the early 80's weaning, tappering, maintainance was not medical vocabulary.
When I was cut off either pain meds or benzos I do not remrmber any extreme withdrawal symptoms. I do not remember any nedical concern over the need to tapper.
How about sharing with the forum, some similar experiences u have had. The fact it was not hard to quit using.
The fact what separated u from an addiction was leaving off the last pill or smoke or whatever.

ter

People are gullible aren't they? I'd say whoever taught you about opioids didn't know what they were on about.
I just spent a year longer than I meant to high on pods because I couldn't get my body to behave itself without any.
Am I gullible enough to think I'm imagining that?

PS It's usual to have morphine after an operation while still in hospital. Most people are home within a week and the morphine isn't allowed to go home with them, they are fine. I heard it said once that you have to try quite hard to get addicted to opiates. I'm not sure it was hard to do, but it took a while, I've been on and off them to a certain extent all my life, but only got hooked in the pandemic when it was a gift to just stay home and stay high all the time, for months on end.
I'll always remember the pandemic fondly, I didn't catch covid, none of us died and I had a lot of time off work with free money from the government in my pocket and a you tube music subscription to play with, what more could a girl want?
Even the weather was great.

 

[papercuts]

Anyway I reduced the bupe again yesterday, in theory my absorbtion is equivalent to around 1.2-1.5mg 2mg bupe a day taken sublingually, but it's in patches all over me. The pharmacy only had the smallest two sizes of patch left, so it seems like dozens of them now, I've made a list of when I put which one on and where I put it to keep track, mostly in a line running around my ribs, but some find their way to my legs and there's one for show on my arm (the officially allowed one).
I was really struggling and failing tbh, so I thought I'd up the ante and give me something to get my teeth into. If I'm suffering anyway, might as well be reducing my dose as well. These little patches are good for tapering, I'll give them that.
So that's where I am this morning, feeling a bit sick and shaky, otherwise ok.

Edit, just worked it out properly and after the reduction I'm on exactly equivalent to 2mg sublingual, so a little more than I thought, but it was 2.4mg equiv last week, so all good.

 

[papercuts]

I don't know where you are located but in the US, Psychology Today is a good starting point (linked). After that, my second choice would be Zocdoc. On either one, look for the specialty box and choose "therapy" or "counseling". Make sure to view each individual therapist's profile because they will normally list the different types of therapy in which they specialize. This will save you time. You don't want to see a sex therapist if your problem is coping with asperger's. If you have PTSD, search for a therapist who specializes in that. If nothing is listed and you want to find out, call their office and straight up ask them if they have experience with whatever ails you. They will tell you.

In my city, we have a lot of sliding scale therapists that will see you without insurance and only charge what you can afford. Try googling "sliding scale therapy" or something like that with your city and state included.

When I start out, I typically don't dive deep into all of my deepest, darkest problems. Besides, with hour-long sessions, that isn't enough time to get into much detail. I normally start out with low hanging fruit and basic everyday issues while trying out a new therapist. As trust is gained, I will slowly begin sharing more and more. With my last therapist, I saw her for a year before finally telling her the biggest thing that has been nagging at me for 20 years. Unfortunately my insurance changed after that session and she is not in network anymore so I can't see her again I'm NOT saying it should take you a year to open up, just wanted to give you an extreme example of how therapy isn't a one-size-fits-all type of thing. You'll know when y'all are ready to get real with each other.

Thanks, I had a look on our local version of psychology today and a few caught my eye, they are affordable. I'll have to have a think. There have been enough court cases publicised where the police use therapy notes to help convict people of all sorts, in at least one case therapy notes were what began the case, used to give a woman 3 months inside for helping her 15yo daughter procure an abortion, I want to consider it, but y'know. I can cross a border forty miles away and have more freedoms, that is too far to go often, it's a good hour in each direction, too far for therapy.

 

[Ghostrae]

I’m sure the negatives that you saw before your trip down Opiate Lane have helped you to not fall into the trap as deeply as I did. And I definitely didn’t lose anything from my life when I was on 2 Percocet’s per day. The mess really started for me when my Dr started prescribing me 150 mg of straight oxy per day, and everything accelerated to something exponentially worse when I got to 450mg per day. That’s really when I began losing stuff from my life that I didn’t even realize was gone.

It’s difficult to be ‘present’ with my family when I don’t even remember falling asleep at the dinner table, or when I’m sitting in dis-belief being told that my eyes were closed while driving on the freeway. Knowing that my bank account is overdrawn and having no memory of where the money went. Forgetting that I haven’t bathed in days (and not caring at all). Pooping maybe once per week, or 2 weeks. Getting ‘disciplined’ at work for not showing up at work on Monday morning because I didn’t realize the weekend had ended. Staining our white bedsheets when I don’t even recall cutting my foot, and bleeding on everything while I slept. Etc…

I’m not doing that kind of stupid anymore and it’s definitely a better way to live.

I'm glad you've gotten past all that. No, in the 8 or so years of taking opoids I have rarely taken more than 40mg of hydrocodone per day or since switching to percoset, 40mg per day. Which with percoset each pill is 1.5 mmes, a stonger opoid. Hydrcodone 1. I can tell one could be more addictive than other but thats based on half life and pain trigger of lower blood levels.could I ever become addicted? Maybe. I never delude myself. I did smoke cigarrets for 20 years. It took 10 years to quit.
I saw my mother over dose and nearly die from taking prescribed medications many times. I think those incidents have contributed to my staying on the staight and narrow. In my case I have created a potential problem because I have taken them for so long. Also opoids are not my pick for a "high" I take them for pain.
It is to be acknowledged that everone does not develope addiction. Dependance both mental and physical yes, but not addiction.

 

[Ghostrae]

People are gullible aren't they? I'd say whoever taught you about opioids didn't know what they were on about.
I just spent a year longer than I meant to high on pods because I couldn't get my body to behave itself without any.
Am I gullible enough to think I'm imagining that?

PS It's usual to have morphine after an operation while still in hospital. Most people are home within a week and the morphine isn't allowed to go home with them, they are fine. I heard it said once that you have to try quite hard to get addicted to opiates. I'm not sure it was hard to do, but it took a while, I've been on and off them to a certain extent all my life, but only got hooked in the pandemic when it was a gift to just stay home and stay high all the time, for months on end.
I'll always remember the pandemic fondly, I didn't catch covid, none of us died and I had a lot of time off work with free money from the government in my pocket and a you tube music subscription to play with, what more could a girl want?
Even the weather was great.

I am just jumping in with a reply to several coments actually. The word gullible seems to have hit a few nerves. I meant in general and when using that one word didn't realize it would be percieved as being so negative or necessarily uncomplimentary.
The bigger issue would be co dependancy. A very complicated issue. I'll give it some thought. Revisit the subject of co dependancy at some other time. Protection of addiction. Any thoughts.
Yes, covid and the lock down. I managed to take all my "emergency" meds during that period of time.
There is our self opinion, whatever others think of use and then there is REALITY.
I see myself as being in control. [What is step 1 or maybe 2?]. When my drunken x husband visited me at my job demanding money in order to get whiskey because he "had to have it" I was not sympathetic not towards his addiction [need] or that whole consept. I drank as much as him. Why did he think his need was greater than mine.
Good points were made. Thanks for responding.

 

[Ghostrae]

Thanks, I had a look on our local version of psychology today and a few caught my eye, they are affordable. I'll have to have a think. There have been enough court cases publicised where the police use therapy notes to help convict people of all sorts, in at least one case therapy notes were what began the case, used to give a woman 3 months inside for helping her 15yo daughter procure an abortion, I want to consider it, but y'know. I can cross a border forty miles away and have more freedoms, that is too far to go often, it's a good hour in each direction, too far for therapy.

I checked out the local state supported mental health clinic a few years ago. I dropped before intake was completed. It seemed to be more an extension of court system than healthcare.
I recently did some research about opoid liaility. I learned our doctors are advised by AMA that doctor shopping or taking drugs from one doctor and not informing primary dr of additional meds ,(opoids) is a felony being committed by patient. Our doctors are advised to report us to local police or DEA. This to me, is definitely a means to criminalize medicine. Its terrible. People have fewer and fewer rights. My doctor can't be pervieved as my caring suportive. Caregiver. He is my advisary!
I discussed these things with my doctor. I think its wrong to fire someone, take away their jobs, food for their children if they fail a damn pee test.
Strangely enough the response to mass shootings is not less guns manufactured, its less rights allowed citizens. More controll more piss test. Gitmo. After 9-11 the government took that opportunity to improve the security of this country how? Encouraging sharing information. More piss test. Striking down privacy laws.

 

[Squeaky]

I would say that I’m smarter than average. But I was also a bit gullible. I was never told I would become addicted, but I was never warned either. I imagine that I assumed the Dr wouldn’t do anything but help me and that I could handle it all. I quit a prescribed benzo once and had a small seizure, not knowing I could have died. When I told the Dr what I had done she said “YOU CANT JUST QUIT THOSE DRUGS!!!”. That was my family Dr and I believe she was a really good one.

Gullible might be the wrong word, but it’s not far off.

 

[Ghostrae]

Today, I aim to put my money where my mouth is.
Last 10 mg oxy 8AM .March 29, 2023.
I hope I have not made anyone mad with my recent posts. I will certainly need your support in the coming hours.
Maybe I should 12 step it.
Step 1
To admit one has a problem, right,? I'll look the steps up. If no one objects I might post the A A steps here since I have reached this point in this forum.
I actually did a bluelight search for proper forum. Searching for programs AA was included. Don't think just because I am 76 yrs I do not know how to use a computer. I think I was in my late 50's when I got my BS in computer information technology. 2005. I am an old white lady by the way.
The first long term goal is to very simply go 12 hours without taking a single pain pill. This time tomorow at 8AM.Mar.30 may be 24 hours. I like making detailed charts.8PM tonight 12 hours.
I certainly have not gotten past denial.
In the past couple of weeks I have yo-yo-ed
Tappered to less than 50% daily dose. Delayed pill refill pickup appointment 2 weeks. Faced the wrath of the certified, by AMA pill pusher. Listened to his efforts to destroy my confidence. Really. He's a bastard. My brother says maybe I am the bad patient. No, he is a bad doctor.By my definition.
After the 40 mi trip and fresh 120. (I fell. Like a snow drop from heaven to hell < my fathers favorite poem contains some of these lines. He was a premediated suicide. He planned his own demise for weeks. Set a date. He got his blood alcohol % to a potentially fatal level then shot himself. Inflicting a fatal wound to his aorta. Rationale, there is none. Except he was thought to be manic depressive. Alcoholic, maybe. He fought in WWII. I was 10 years old at the time. My mother in hospital giving birth to my sister. My brother and I in his care.)
I am getting off subject. A little bio should be ok. I still have 100. (trying to stick to bluelight rules) Unfortunately I was back up to a daily dose of 40mg divided by 4 per 24 hours. I spent the last 24 hours round the clock q4hrs. I know a lot of people on this forum are amazed to think I think a dose that low could possibly be categorized as a problem. Yesterday, I made another pill refill appointment for april. Its my hope to quit taking pain medicaton today Not another tapper. I have stocked up on Kratom, loperamide, food grade, washed poppy seeds. Valarian sleepy time tea. I have a few benz. Beta blockers, clonodine nitrostat.wellbutrin.
A week before my next appointment date I will cancel the appointment. I probably need another doctor but not the doctor I see now.

 

[Squeaky]

Today, I aim to put my money where my mouth is.
Last 10 mg oxy 8AM .March 29, 2023.
I hope I have not made anyone mad with my recent posts. I will certainly need your support in the coming hours.
Maybe I should 12 step it.
Step 1
To admit one has a problem, right,? I'll look the steps up. If no one objects I might post the A A steps here since I have reached this point in this forum.
I actually did a bluelight search for proper forum. Searching for programs AA was included. Don't think just because I am 76 yrs I do not know how to use a computer. I think I was in my late 50's when I got my BS in computer information technology. 2005. I am an old white lady by the way.
The first long term goal is to very simply go 12 hours without taking a single pain pill. This time tomorow at 8AM.Mar.30 may be 24 hours. I like making detailed charts.8PM tonight 12 hours.
I certainly have not gotten past denial.
In the past couple of weeks I have yo-yo-ed
Tappered to less than 50% daily dose. Delayed pill refill pickup appointment 2 weeks. Faced the wrath of the certified, by AMA pill pusher. Listened to his efforts to destroy my confidence. Really. He's a bastard. My brother says maybe I am the bad patient. No, he is a bad doctor.By my definition.
After the 40 mi trip and fresh 120. (I fell. Like a snow drop from heaven to hell < my fathers favorite poem contains some of these lines. He was a premediated suicide. He planned his own demise for weeks. Set a date. He got his blood alcohol % to a potentially fatal level then shot himself. Inflicting a fatal wound to his aorta. Rationale, there is none. Except he was thought to be manic depressive. Alcoholic, maybe. He fought in WWII. I was 10 years old at the time. My mother in hospital giving birth to my sister. My brother and I in his care.)
I am getting off subject. A little bio should be ok. I still have 100. (trying to stick to bluelight rules) Unfortunately I was back up to a daily dose of 40mg divided by 4 per 24 hours. I spent the last 24 hours round the clock q4hrs. I know a lot of people on this forum are amazed to think I think a dose that low could possibly be categorized as a problem. Yesterday, I made another pill refill appointment for april. Its my hope to quit taking pain medicaton today Not another tapper. I have stocked up on Kratom, loperamide, food grade, washed poppy seeds. Valarian sleepy time tea. I have a few benz. Beta blockers, clonodine nitrostat.wellbutrin.
A week before my next appointment date I will cancel the appointment. I probably need another doctor but not the doctor I see now.

You can do it!!! I have found that little milestones work great for me. Hitting that target early in the morning (24 hrs, 48hrs, etc) really works for me. Aim for occupying your brain as much as you can. Weed, Netflix, even sex. If it distracts you for even just a few minutes, it’s a good thing. Save the benzos for sleep. Kratom really helps, but be cautious with lope. And get some excuses ready to tell anyone that you don’t want knowing what’s really going on. “I think I got Covid…. Dr says it’s not Covid but I think he’s wrong so I’m getting tested again tomorrow…. The testing place was closed… and finally: I had 4 tests that all came back negative, must have been food poisoning, now I think I’m dehydrated”

It’s soooo much worse for me when I have responsibilities at work and home. Lying sucks but the endless offers of help somehow make it worse. The absolute last thing I ever want is to need to seem ‘normal’ when I’m dying inside.

 

[Squeaky]

I like making detailed charts.8PM tonight 12 hours.

If detailed charts work for you, try this:

Make a chart that outlines how far you made it, not how far you still have to go. It’s a gigantic mountain to climb. If you focus on the progress you already made, it might be easier to push through when you want to quit. If you focus on how much farther you still have to go, it might make you want to give up.

Also…. Mark down how crappy you feel along the way. When you can see that it’s actually starting to get better in a few days, you’ll be inspired to stick with it. It’s difficult to tell if you have crossed that threshold when all you can think of is the blisters from the journey.

 

[papercuts]

Today, I aim to put my money where my mouth is.
Last 10 mg oxy 8AM .March 29, 2023.
I hope I have not made anyone mad with my recent posts. I will certainly need your support in the coming hours.
Maybe I should 12 step it.
Step 1
To admit one has a problem, right,? I'll look the steps up. If no one objects I might post the A A steps here since I have reached this point in this forum.
I actually did a bluelight search for proper forum. Searching for programs AA was included. Don't think just because I am 76 yrs I do not know how to use a computer. I think I was in my late 50's when I got my BS in computer information technology. 2005. I am an old white lady by the way.
The first long term goal is to very simply go 12 hours without taking a single pain pill. This time tomorow at 8AM.Mar.30 may be 24 hours. I like making detailed charts.8PM tonight 12 hours.
I certainly have not gotten past denial.
In the past couple of weeks I have yo-yo-ed
Tappered to less than 50% daily dose. Delayed pill refill pickup appointment 2 weeks. Faced the wrath of the certified, by AMA pill pusher. Listened to his efforts to destroy my confidence. Really. He's a bastard. My brother says maybe I am the bad patient. No, he is a bad doctor.By my definition.
After the 40 mi trip and fresh 120. (I fell. Like a snow drop from heaven to hell < my fathers favorite poem contains some of these lines. He was a premediated suicide. He planned his own demise for weeks. Set a date. He got his blood alcohol % to a potentially fatal level then shot himself. Inflicting a fatal wound to his aorta. Rationale, there is none. Except he was thought to be manic depressive. Alcoholic, maybe. He fought in WWII. I was 10 years old at the time. My mother in hospital giving birth to my sister. My brother and I in his care.)
I am getting off subject. A little bio should be ok. I still have 100. (trying to stick to bluelight rules) Unfortunately I was back up to a daily dose of 40mg divided by 4 per 24 hours. I spent the last 24 hours round the clock q4hrs. I know a lot of people on this forum are amazed to think I think a dose that low could possibly be categorized as a problem. Yesterday, I made another pill refill appointment for april. Its my hope to quit taking pain medicaton today Not another tapper. I have stocked up on Kratom, loperamide, food grade, washed poppy seeds. Valarian sleepy time tea. I have a few benz. Beta blockers, clonodine nitrostat.wellbutrin.
A week before my next appointment date I will cancel the appointment. I probably need another doctor but not the doctor I see now.

Try some high dose vitamin c, around 15-25g a day and also black seed oil drops in the mouth for nausea and more. In my view vit c might be as effective as clonidine without any of the dangers, but I guess if you're a nurse you know what you're doing, I used both recently to good effect.
Good Luck.
I'm managing on my new lower dose, loving sex all the more for it gotta look on the bright side. Also I got some real knockout weed on the go, so that helps a lot, literally I don't get finishing my vape, my husband takes my pipe off my chest and turns the light off.

While we are on that, why be so down on codependant relationships? I love my husband and he loves me and we depend on each other to stay alive and with some sanity, we both were heavy drinkers when we married and realised at some point we don't have much else in common, but that doesn't mean we have to run for a divorce, we still have great sex for one thing, married nearly thirty years, as codependant as they come, why not? We're from the same community of the same city so we understand each other no problem.

Why does the accepted fact have to be that it is bad to depend on your nearest and dearest? We are social animals who do badly in isolation and I'm not the most social human, but I see the need for others.
We do not need to be able to do everything a human can do, not if we know other people with other skills we can depend on.

As for drugs, you can't be codependant with drugs, the drugs will never need you, we are dependant on them, one way relationship.

 

[Ghostrae]

You can do it!!! I have found that little milestones work great for me. Hitting that target early in the morning (24 hrs, 48hrs, etc) really works for me. Aim for occupying your brain as much as you can. Weed, Netflix, even sex. If it distracts you for even just a few minutes, it’s a good thing. Save the benzos for sleep. Kratom really helps, but be cautious with lope. And get some excuses ready to tell anyone that you don’t want knowing what’s really going on. “I think I got Covid…. Dr says it’s not Covid but I think he’s wrong so I’m getting tested again tomorrow…. The testing place was closed… and finally: I had 4 tests that all came back negative, must have been food poisoning, now I think I’m dehydrated”

It’s soooo much worse for me when I have responsibilities at work and home. Lying sucks but the endless offers of help somehow make it worse. The absolute last thing I ever want is to need to seem ‘normal’ when I’m dying inside.

Thanks for the feed back.
I am at 26 or so more hours this morning. The first 24 hours I have gone without a 10mg pill in a very long time. Already past the arguement with myelf to drop back to tapper and take just one. No I am not going to do it!
My doctor once told me testing for viruses are extremely unreliable because it's complicated. Gook luck with dealing with the disease.
I am lucky. Just me and my pets. No responsibilities to others.
A problem I already have developed from discontinuing pain meds is a stangling cough. Dexthro did not help in the past but it is in my arseol of otc self helps.
There are all kinds of theories around freeing oneself of a habit. One is relocating. Too bad I can't afford to take a trip.
Stay safe!

 

[Ghostrae]

Try some high dose vitamin c, around 15-25g a day and also black seed oil drops in the mouth for nausea and more. In my view vit c might be as effective as clonidine without any of the dangers, but I guess if you're a nurse you know what you're doing, I used both recently to good effect.
Good Luck.
I'm managing on my new lower dose, loving sex all the more for it gotta look on the bright side. Also I got some real knockout weed on the go, so that helps a lot, literally I don't get finishing my vape, my husband takes my pipe off my chest and turns the light off.

While we are on that, why be so down on codependant relationships? I love my husband and he loves me and we depend on each other to stay alive and with some sanity, we both were heavy drinkers when we married and realised at some point we don't have much else in common, but that doesn't mean we have to run for a divorce, we still have great sex for one thing, married nearly thirty years, as codependant as they come, why not? We're from the same community of the same city so we understand each other no problem.

Why does the accepted fact have to be that it is bad to depend on your nearest and dearest? We are social animals who do badly in isolation and I'm not the most social human, but I see the need for others.
We do not need to be able to do everything a human can do, not if we know other people with other skills we can depend on.

As for drugs, you can't be codependant with drugs, the drugs will never need you, we are dependant on them, one way relationship.

I'm not married. My children no longer live at home. The codependency I am in reference to is between doctor and patient. And friends, even well meaning social media friends.

 

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I'm not married. My children no longer live at home. The codependency I am in reference to is between doctor and patient. And friends, even well meaning social media friends.

OK, I was genuinely curious, but I googled it and it seems that like addiction, codependancy is one of those words which by definition is having negative consequences on the person's life.
I read it and I can't take abandonment, that stands out among the other shit personal traits listed, I finished most of my relationships through not trusting the other person not to fuck me over as badly as either of my parents did, take your pick, I don't know which of them was worse. Or was it growing up in a bit of a war zone? People were dying for no good reason every day. People move or die, my parents just told the oldest two of the eight of us to fuck off, each at the age of sixteen, that's less usual. I still I can't get it into my thick skull that other people won't fuck me over, so I undervalue relationships and don't often bother maintaining them. It never seems worth it long term and now I'm older, raised my kids completely sober for 24 years and I'm enjoying revisiting my earlier joys in life, with someone I trust, me
My husband trusts noone at all, he calls me too trusting, but in recent years he has told me how I am the only person he trusts, so that's a step forward for him.
However it's one thing having a counsellor point out I have trust issues, it would be another thing entirely to get help for it, lol

I think I will pick out a counsellor or two and email them, see what their response is like, then if I need to mention anything illegal (possible a little opium addiction may come up) I can choose how I speak.
If I tell the counsellor it's a friend, while of course they know it's me, then they might escape the legal requirement to tell the authorities?

Would that work, has anyone experience of counselling where they had to talk about something illegal?
Might be different in the US, you have freedom of speech, while the rest of the world gets privacy over their body (no penalties for refusing drugs testing, abortion in most places).

I'll ask the counsellors, shit, that is an easy solution, they tell you before you start that anything illegal will have to be reported, so it's easy to ask would they need to report it if it was a third party I was asking for. Sounding them out is necessary for my safety.

It's ironic, to get counselling for my trust issues I would need to trust them to break the law on my behalf, I mean, really?

 

[Squeaky]

Thanks for the feed back.
I am at 26 or so more hours this morning. The first 24 hours I have gone without a 10mg pill in a very long time. Already past the arguement with myelf to drop back to tapper and take just one. No I am not going to do it!
My doctor once told me testing for viruses are extremely unreliable because it's complicated. Gook luck with dealing with the disease.
I am lucky. Just me and my pets. No responsibilities to others.
A problem I already have developed from discontinuing pain meds is a stangling cough. Dexthro did not help in the past but it is in my arseol of otc self helps.
There are all kinds of theories around freeing oneself of a habit. One is relocating. Too bad I can't afford to take a trip.
Stay safe!

Day one is a big milestone for me. It’s like the lowest basecamp on Mt Everest. The first time I quit, I couldn’t stop sneezing for a couple of weeks. My hands sweated so much that I had to walk around with a small towel all day. Hot flashes… not fun.

I watched a documentary series on the crazy idiots who pay thousands of dollars to climb Mt. Everest. One guy was a double amputee. Both legs above the knees. Two prosthetic legs. He made it but had frostbite and blisters on his ‘stumps’ and had 2 more inches of his stumps amputated. That guy was so happy and proud of himself that he didn’t care at all about the new damage to his legs.

I was a little jealous until I made it through my first 30 days of sobriety, and I totally understood. It will all be worth it in the end…. I promise.

 

[Squeaky]

OK, I was genuinely curious, but I googled it and it seems that like addiction, codependancy is one of those words which by definition is having negative consequences on the person's life.
I read it and I can't take abandonment, that stands out among the other shit personal traits listed, I finished most of my relationships through not trusting the other person not to fuck me over as badly as either of my parents did, take your pick, I don't know which of them was worse. Or was it growing up in a bit of a war zone? People were dying for no good reason every day. People move or die, my parents just told the oldest two of the eight of us to fuck off, each at the age of sixteen, that's less usual. I still I can't get it into my thick skull that other people won't fuck me over, so I undervalue relationships and don't often bother maintaining them. It never seems worth it long term and now I'm older, raised my kids completely sober for 24 years and I'm enjoying revisiting my earlier joys in life, with someone I trust, me
My husband trusts noone at all, he calls me too trusting, but in recent years he has told me how I am the only person he trusts, so that's a step forward for him.
However it's one thing having a counsellor point out I have trust issues, it would be another thing entirely to get help for it, lol

I think I will pick out a counsellor or two and email them, see what their response is like, then if I need to mention anything illegal (possible a little opium addiction may come up) I can choose how I speak.
If I tell the counsellor it's a friend, while of course they know it's me, then they might escape the legal requirement to tell the authorities?

Would that work, has anyone experience of counselling where they had to talk about something illegal?
Might be different in the US, you have freedom of speech, while the rest of the world gets privacy over their body (no penalties for refusing drugs testing, abortion in most places).

I'll ask the counsellors, shit, that is an easy solution, they tell you before you start that anything illegal will have to be reported, so it's easy to ask would they need to report it if it was a third party I was asking for. Sounding them out is necessary for my safety.

It's ironic, to get counselling for my trust issues I would need to trust them to break the law on my behalf, I mean, really?

In the USA we have Dr/patient confidentiality. It’s illegal for a Dr to tell the police anything unless they would be stopping a future crime. So if you already committed a murder and told a therapist, they can’t say anything. If you plan to commit a murder, they must inform the authorities.

Maybe you can be totally honest but replace ‘poppies’ with diet soda, or coffee. Addiction doesn’t need to be something illegal and the treatment is the same. A friend years ago went to a fancy re-hab. There was a guy in there who couldn’t stop drinking milk. It sounds crazy but he was there with the heroin addicts in the exact same 90 day program.

 

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In the USA we have Dr/patient confidentiality. It’s illegal for a Dr to tell the police anything unless they would be stopping a future crime. So if you already committed a murder and told a therapist, they can’t say anything. If you plan to commit a murder, they must inform the authorities.

Maybe you can be totally honest but replace ‘poppies’ with diet soda, or coffee. Addiction doesn’t need to be something illegal and the treatment is the same. A friend years ago went to a fancy re-hab. There was a guy in there who couldn’t stop drinking milk. It sounds crazy but he was there with the heroin addicts in the exact same 90 day program.

Milk? Unless he's lactose intolerant hard to see the problem!
No, it's past crimes here, current crimes, ones you overheard at the bus stop, anything local, the law says any local person (not the ruling/voting ones, just us) who knows of a crime and doesn't spill all to the authorities gets the same penalty or three years in prison, depending on which is greater. That's the same penalty as if they had committed the crime themselves mostly. Now I'll admit noone cares to obey that particular law, we tend to keep away from the authorities, but occassionally someone feels it's their civic duty to be a twat and a counsellor might be just such a twat, no way of knowing.