Positive The Tapering Support Thread v 2.0

[Squeaky]

Apart from that I'm definitely getting physical withdrawals at day 2 and 3 of my plan of using pods every sixth day.
It's a repeating pattern.
I wasn't able to eat yesterday, only three small bits of bread dipped in soup, felt so sick, so I lay awake with stomach pains, sweating all night and I'm no better today (day 3 of 6).
My head is ok with it but my body isn't.

Question; I used opiates daily for most of the two years of the pandemic, from maybe Aug 2020 until 11 weeks ago, with other attempts to quit along the way, will my body reset eventually or will I keep getting wds like this after only one day of use?

Each time you try to quit it gets easier, but one day of opiate use will likely get you 2 or 3 days of wd’s.

If you imagine your brain/body like a bucket of water with a slow trickle of rain filling it up. Opiates drain it a litte or a lot depending on how much you use. A full bucket means a normal life and the more empty it is means more wd’s when you quit. You could punch a big hole in it with one big day of getting high, but you really can’t get more rain.

Using that analogy you might be able to scoop some extra water into it with exercise, and shitty food might make the rain slow down. And definitely, sitting and watching how slow it fills just makes it feel like forever.

Eventually, the physical wd’s clear up. For me it’s about a month. After that it’s some lingering psychological crap (like insomnia). I never made it more than a few months but I have seen a couple of documentaries that all say 2 years to be 100% back to normal.

 

[papercuts]

Each time you try to quit it gets easier, but one day of opiate use will likely get you 2 or 3 days of wd’s.

If you imagine your brain/body like a bucket of water with a slow trickle of rain filling it up. Opiates drain it a litte or a lot depending on how much you use. A full bucket means a normal life and the more empty it is means more wd’s when you quit. You could punch a big hole in it with one big day of getting high, but you really can’t get more rain.

Using that analogy you might be able to scoop some extra water into it with exercise, and shitty food might make the rain slow down. And definitely, sitting and watching how slow it fills just makes it feel like forever.

Eventually, the physical wd’s clear up. For me it’s about a month. After that it’s some lingering psychological crap (like insomnia). I never made it more than a few months but I have seen a couple of documentaries that all say 2 years to be 100% back to normal.

It's been raining a lot recently, but clearly not enough to fill me up when I'm punching holes in the bag every sixth day.
What I found with doing this the last few weeks is that I'm better by the time day six comes around.
Day 1, still high from yesterday
Day 2, slowed down and tummy upset, no sleep, sweats, want some to get better
Day 3, runs to the loo and bad cravings
Day 4, starting to feel normal, eating again, fewer cravings, feeling proud I didn't do it yesterday
Day 5, today, I feel ok and am looking forward to tomorrow
Day 6, I made it
I don't know if I can keep it going like this, seems a bit rough on my body to be ill every sodding week but I hung on all week so I want my reward and end up having it sooner or later on day six. It's like a compromise between my head and my body. My head has never been that good to my body really, but it's the only head I've got and it's not full blown withdrawal, just a reminder of why I skip five days at all.
I end up taking more than I used to when I used it every day, redosing as I like instead of sticking to mornings only, but that's sort of to get over the increased buprenorphine, so I'm not even spending less, but I can go places without risking full withdrawal.
I know you don't beat an addiction by feeding it, but for me this is fairly good for now.
Was it @Squeaky who said something like the following? Would hate to plagarise you dude,
Ever feel like a goldfish and you recognise this side of the bowl? It's your favorite view, it's why you keep swimming fast as you can back around to it.

Edit; On reflection it's kratom that messed up my tolerance, the bupe sort of rides under it and possibly even potentiates it. Reads like I'm as trapped as ever, but I'm slowly widening the bars of my cage.

 

[Sidban]

Jesus. Last night had the worst night sweats. Dripping!!!! This is Day 6. Feel OK but bloody hell. Off the work.

 

[papercuts]

Jesus. Last night had the worst night sweats. Dripping!!!! This is Day 6. Feel OK but bloody hell. Off the work.

Sometimes I get into the bath just to dry off I hope that was you getting over the hump.

 

[papercuts]

It's funny how much little things count, even that I chose the last day not the first day to dose up. If it's day 1 then it's the start of a run, if it's day six then it's the end instead, the end of waiting and abstaining. That way I can have day 1 again abstaining. It's subtle but I don't think I could do it if I had my using day as day 1. Weird. Sorry I'm avoiding doing work and rambling now.

 

[Mafioso]

Down from 10-12mg/day to 2 and stepping to 1.5mg. I had stepped off for a bit but a whole bunch of stressful events happened that I needed to act upon, and I was basically bed ridden in withdrawal hell, so considering I had a few left on hand I decided to reinstate to jump these hurdles, which are 90% conquered, before finally stepping off. I know the hurdles will keep coming, but the longer I'm on no/low doses, I have really been getting a lot of confidence in myself back. I can see tings like my reading comprehension and mood improve, and maybe the biggest is I don't feel so out of control when it comes to self managing stress without benzos.

Nightmares/intense dreams and waking up all sweaty is probably one of the harder aspects to deal with. This last run I went on a bender thinking I could erase the bad memories and emotions, making it pain free to move on. I knew deep down it was only a temporary fix as this isn't my first rodeo, but managed to convince myself and truly forget a lot of.. troubling thoughts/memories. I've been waking up in a panic and cold sweats every 2-4 hours, often in a flashback to memories I tired to surpress. I know this is part of the healing process, as I must now finally deal with these thoughts and emotions without drugs... which is both the hardest part and the most rewarding part.

I've realized I've got a lot of learning to do, largely around boundaries. I tend to be all or nothing with people, which generally leaves me isolated and appear I only reach out when in need(not untrue, altough I don't reach out often out of fear of rejection). Anyways... healthy boundaries is such a vague concept as it differs wildly for person to person and relationship to relationship. For now I'm just trying to focus on letting go of my anger and the accompanying grudges and finding what a healthy distance is between certain people.

I"ve still got a long way to go, but things have gotten better in nearly every aspect overall. Becoming more motivated, regaining physical strength, brain fog is lifting, and things are looking up for now. I'm pretty nervous about the final step, as I know I'm in a pink cloud as all the other tines I've always looked back and thought about how nice it was just to have even .5mg/day.... but it's coming in the next month- it has to.

Hope everyone is doing ok, and if not, hope youre at least able to hang on to some glimmer of hope. things can change for the better.

 

[Squeaky]

It's been raining a lot recently, but clearly not enough to fill me up when I'm punching holes in the bag every sixth day.
What I found with doing this the last few weeks is that I'm better by the time day six comes around.
Day 1, still high from yesterday
Day 2, slowed down and tummy upset, no sleep, sweats, want some to get better
Day 3, runs to the loo and bad cravings
Day 4, starting to feel normal, eating again, fewer cravings, feeling proud I didn't do it yesterday
Day 5, today, I feel ok and am looking forward to tomorrow
Day 6, I made it
I don't know if I can keep it going like this, seems a bit rough on my body to be ill every sodding week but I hung on all week so I want my reward and end up having it sooner or later on day six. It's like a compromise between my head and my body. My head has never been that good to my body really, but it's the only head I've got and it's not full blown withdrawal, just a reminder of why I skip five days at all.
I end up taking more than I used to when I used it every day, redosing as I like instead of sticking to mornings only, but that's sort of to get over the increased buprenorphine, so I'm not even spending less, but I can go places without risking full withdrawal.
I know you don't beat an addiction by feeding it, but for me this is fairly good for now.
Was it @Squeaky who said something like the following? Would hate to plagarise you dude,
Ever feel like a goldfish and you recognise this side of the bowl? It's your favorite view, it's why you keep swimming fast as you can back around to it.

Edit; On reflection it's kratom that messed up my tolerance, the bupe sort of rides under it and possibly even potentiates it. Reads like I'm as trapped as ever, but I'm slowly widening the bars of my cage.

It wasn’t me who said it but it totally fits.

The first few times I quit (ran out), it felt like I should have been far enough past the wd's that I could be able to see if I was just in pain or just an addict. The real, physical pain was back of course but there was a whole list of pains and psychological problems that were just ‘there’. Even after many months of two weeks on oxy and two weeks on Kratom, I still felt all of the new problems that the wd’s were causing (in addition to my actual pains), and I assumed that they were just part of my life forever. That went on for a couple of years.

Now that I only have pills for a few days each month, I can see more clearly that the opiates create new problems that go on for several weeks after I quit. Mostly general aches and pains, muscle spasms, depression, anxiety, insomnia, etc. It’s clear now that I’ll have to be off everything (including Kratom) for at least a month before I begin to really get my life back. I’m working toward that goal right now, and failing miserably.

Ultimately we all know the answer but are afraid to ask the question. We’ll never get to experience life beyond opiates until we quit EVERYTHING, and quit forever. But it’s too hard so we try Kratom, bupe, lope, etc. They all make a softer landing but they stretch out the whole process indefinitely if we never quit those too.

 

[Squeaky]

Gotta practice your fake smile and learn to meditate while standing up.

 

[Chichimami]

This is a social/support thread for those who may be tapering. It is meant to be a thread where we can share our experiences in a safe place. Whether you are getting ready to begin the tapering process or if you've been there before and wish to offer your valuable perspective.... Welcome!

As always, please make sure we are posting per the BLUA - Bluelight User Agreement as well as The Dark Side - Forum Guidelines at all times.

This thread is a continuation of the Tapering Supportive/Social Thread:

Positive - The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

Hi Mods, I noticed we have a few of us discussing our tapering attempts off of our drugs in the past few days. I do so much better when I have the support of someone else going through the same thing at the same time. Do you think a tapering thread would be helpful? Also, would you recommend...

bluelight.org

Hi I’m brand new to forums and not sure if I’m even posting correctly. But I’m very isolated in a 2 year norco/blues addiction. No one knows. I really need advice. Please help

Since Christmas I started spinning out of control, my usage increased and I started picking up pressed blues from off the st…when prescriptions ran out. I was using about 100mg daily of blues off the street. So not sure what they really were. It’s been 8 days since cutting my dose. I’m at 45mg a day and I’m already in withdrawal. Taking the lower dose seems to keep me at a manageable point. But am I just prolonging the inevitable? I don’t know what tapering SHOULD feel like so everything is scary. I’m mostly in the early phases of withdrawal and my dose keeps things just enough to make it through the day with my clients and not start shaking and sweating.

In another week or so I’ll be stepped down to just 15mg a day….is that easy to ween off? Or will I still be wildly uncomfortable?!!

God….please help. Thank you thank you

 

[papercuts]

Hi I’m brand new to forums and not sure if I’m even posting correctly. But I’m very isolated in a 2 year norco/blues addiction. No one knows. I really need advice. Please help

Since Christmas I started spinning out of control, my usage increased and I started picking up pressed blues from off the st…when prescriptions ran out. I was using about 100mg daily of blues off the street. So not sure what they really were. It’s been 8 days since cutting my dose. I’m at 45mg a day and I’m already in withdrawal. Taking the lower dose seems to keep me at a manageable point. But am I just prolonging the inevitable? I don’t know what tapering SHOULD feel like so everything is scary. I’m mostly in the early phases of withdrawal and my dose keeps things just enough to make it through the day with my clients and not start shaking and sweating.

In another week or so I’ll be stepped down to just 15mg a day….is that easy to ween off? Or will I still be wildly uncomfortable?!!

God….please help. Thank you thank you

Welcome, finding this forum could be the most helpful discovery in your journey, folks here know a lot.
It's scary, emotional stuff weaning off that, good luck.

 

[Squeaky]

Hi I’m brand new to forums and not sure if I’m even posting correctly. But I’m very isolated in a 2 year norco/blues addiction. No one knows. I really need advice. Please help

Since Christmas I started spinning out of control, my usage increased and I started picking up pressed blues from off the st…when prescriptions ran out. I was using about 100mg daily of blues off the street. So not sure what they really were. It’s been 8 days since cutting my dose. I’m at 45mg a day and I’m already in withdrawal. Taking the lower dose seems to keep me at a manageable point. But am I just prolonging the inevitable? I don’t know what tapering SHOULD feel like so everything is scary. I’m mostly in the early phases of withdrawal and my dose keeps things just enough to make it through the day with my clients and not start shaking and sweating.

In another week or so I’ll be stepped down to just 15mg a day….is that easy to ween off? Or will I still be wildly uncomfortable?!!

God….please help. Thank you thank you

You’re going to be miserable. Each time you cut your dose, you’ll have withdrawals. The amount you cut will determine the severity and it will last a lot longer than you can imagine. It’s usually really bad for about a week, then mostly depression, anxiety, insomnia, etc, for up to a month.

I have done EVERY possible combination, cutting back everywhere from 60 mg per day oxy up to 300 mg. There’s plenty of tricks to help but even if you got medical help, it’s not going to be fun.

First: I assume you’re not ready for cold turkey. I have done that too and it’s horrible. If you have time to make some changes before cutting back then I strongly suggest getting your body onto a schedule. Cut your random dosing back to only 4 times per day, then 3, then 2. One dose definitely before bed so you can sleep, one in the morning (at least 8 hours after the night dose), and the others no closer than 6 hours apart to be used for the most difficult part of the day like when your kids get home from school or for that daily board meeting at work. Learn to cut up your pills and guess at what 1/3 or 1/4 pill looks like. And ALWAYS take your opiates with food (after a meal, but not a huge meal.) You need to separate your connection with taking a pill and feeling great. It’s all about softening wd’s.

2: if you are unable to do a long taper (months), loperamide helps tremendously, so does Kratom. Both are over-the-counter in the USA. Maybe not in your part of the world. But there is still a transition period of a week or two while your body gets used to the new drugs. Loperamide is sold as “Immodium” and Kratom is an “herbal supplement”. Both are basically opiates but they both really work well.

3: Start inventing excuses for feeling like shit.... you’re going to need them. Bad leftovers, hurt your back, got dehydrated, etc. You’re going have trouble hiding your wd’s and it’s good to have an excuse.

Lastly, what about suboxone? It’s prescribed for opiate wd and it really does work. Gotta go to a Dr but it might be your best bet.

 

[papercuts]

It wasn’t me who said it but it totally fits.

The first few times I quit (ran out), it felt like I should have been far enough past the wd's that I could be able to see if I was just in pain or just an addict. The real, physical pain was back of course but there was a whole list of pains and psychological problems that were just ‘there’. Even after many months of two weeks on oxy and two weeks on Kratom, I still felt all of the new problems that the wd’s were causing (in addition to my actual pains), and I assumed that they were just part of my life forever. That went on for a couple of years.

Now that I only have pills for a few days each month, I can see more clearly that the opiates create new problems that go on for several weeks after I quit. Mostly general aches and pains, muscle spasms, depression, anxiety, insomnia, etc. It’s clear now that I’ll have to be off everything (including Kratom) for at least a month before I begin to really get my life back. I’m working toward that goal right now, and failing miserably.

Ultimately we all know the answer but are afraid to ask the question. We’ll never get to experience life beyond opiates until we quit EVERYTHING, and quit forever. But it’s too hard so we try Kratom, bupe, lope, etc. They all make a softer landing but they stretch out the whole process indefinitely if we never quit those too.

I've another plan, I'll switch to every eighth day. Longer time and I can line it up with my bupe patches, so I use my patch seven days, then pods on the eighth day, then new patch the next day. It stretches out the patches to eight days instead of seven, it means less interference of bupe on my pods day and is an extra two days of not using my DOC between each use.
Best of all, it lines up on Tuesday, so I can start it on the day I would have next had pods anyway

 

[Squeaky]

I've another plan, I'll switch to every eighth day. Longer time and I can line it up with my bupe patches, so I use my patch seven days, then pods on the eighth day, then new patch the next day. It stretches out the patches to eight days instead of seven, it means less interference of bupe on my pods day and is an extra two days of not using my DOC between each use.
Best of all, it lines up on Tuesday, so I can start it on the day I would have next had pods anyway

If you go back to the previous thread, about 2 or 3 years, you’ll find me saying basically the same thing. It didn’t work out so well. Now.... I’m only using my script for a few days, and using a lot with no real benefit. Opiates have a nasty way of keeping us on the hook. Bupe is a lot like Kratom and lope in that it raises tolerance and takes away the fun parts.

 

[Chichimami]

You’re going to be miserable. Each time you cut your dose, you’ll have withdrawals. The amount you cut will determine the severity and it will last a lot longer than you can imagine. It’s usually really bad for about a week, then mostly depression, anxiety, insomnia, etc, for up to a month.

I have done EVERY possible combination, cutting back everywhere from 60 mg per day oxy up to 300 mg. There’s plenty of tricks to help but even if you got medical help, it’s not going to be fun.

First: I assume you’re not ready for cold turkey. I have done that too and it’s horrible. If you have time to make some changes before cutting back then I strongly suggest getting your body onto a schedule. Cut your random dosing back to only 4 times per day, then 3, then 2. One dose definitely before bed so you can sleep, one in the morning (at least 8 hours after the night dose), and the others no closer than 6 hours apart to be used for the most difficult part of the day like when your kids get home from school or for that daily board meeting at work. Learn to cut up your pills and guess at what 1/3 or 1/4 pill looks like. And ALWAYS take your opiates with food (after a meal, but not a huge meal.) You need to separate your connection with taking a pill and feeling great. It’s all about softening wd’s.

2: if you are unable to do a long taper (months), loperamide helps tremendously, so does Kratom. Both are over-the-counter in the USA. Maybe not in your part of the world. But there is still a transition period of a week or two while your body gets used to the new drugs. Loperamide is sold as “Immodium” and Kratom is an “herbal supplement”. Both are basically opiates but they both really work well.

3: Start inventing excuses for feeling like shit.... you’re going to need them. Bad leftovers, hurt your back, got dehydrated, etc. You’re going have trouble hiding your wd’s and it’s good to have an excuse.

Lastly, what about suboxone? It’s prescribed for opiate wd and it really does work. Gotta go to a Dr but it might be your best bet.

Wow. I floored. I could cry with gratitude. Thank you so much. These were some of the very specific questions I needed answered.

I have been experiencing the intense withdrawals everytime I step down in dose! That’s exactly what happens. But also I have been very regimented and I’m doing a fairly fast step down. I’m 10 days in and down from 90-150mg/day to 30-45mg/day. I am taking at scheduled times and definitely trying to disassociate any good feelings. Just keepin the withdrawal manageable. I have a fair bit to go a week or so at 30mg/day. But I also chose this route so that i would in fact feel the consequences.

I have found that Valium at .5 mg 3-4x a day is keeping my shakes away. I’m a tattoo artist and I can’t shake when I’m with clients obviously. I can’t for the life of me sleep. My boyfriend is so worried. I’m already quite thin and this is obviously progressing disordered eating. Weed is helping with the apetite and stomach though, I’m in California. So I can get that easily. The night terrors and sweats are killing me though. I’ll try taking my lady dose tonight very late. I also have muscle relaxers which have helped, but the twitching and shaking in my sleep has put me on the couch.

I actually developed a massive kratom addiction last summer after detoxing with it. So I can’t use it this time around.

This is all very isolating and embarrassing and I’m so grateful for all the advice. I don’t think I’ll be going the Subox route. I’m hoping at the end of the taper there will be so little in my system I will transition ok. Last summer I had a seizure while detoxing. So the Valium is really important for me.

Thank you again! And anything else is appreciated!!!!

 

[Chichimami]

I’m successfully at 30MG today! But wow…could really use some guidance with the sweating and shaking in my sleep. My boyfriend thinks I’m possessed.

 

[papercuts]

I’m successfully at 30MG today! But wow…could really use some guidance with the sweating and shaking in my sleep. My boyfriend thinks I’m possessed.

It's a shame you can't use kratom, that is my best suggestion too atm, along with buprenorphine. Can you get hold of gabapentin or pregablin? They can really help with the mental part and I find baclofen helps with muscle spasms, nefopam is a very good non opiate pain killer that I find easy to pick up and drop again. Try black cohosh (or clonidine) for night sweats, day sweats, temp control in general, take more than the normal dose until it works. I'm working on getting clonidine from the dr for myself, just to have for next time (never say never). Black cohosh amazed me, I dont expect herbal stuff to work, but this does.
Like Squeaky says, keep grumbling about how you are coming down with a stomach upset or a flu.
I tend to be too thin and a picky eater too, in withdrawal I lose weight and look like a bag of bones, but it's mostly dehydration, it looks worrying but I'll be filled out again after a few days. Rehydration salts speed the plumping up process. Weed edibles can help knock you out for sleep, doesn't always work. Temazepam for sleep too, unless you have benzo problems. (my problem with benzos is they turn me into pacman, tricky for detox, lol).
Mostly be kind to yourself, you'll be getting every negative thought in your head presenting itself for attention, tell them to bog off with some more weed, I vape myself into semi-oblivium as much as poss in wd, so I need time off work too.
Keep a tank of hot water so you can jump into the shower/bath as needed to feel human. Nice scents to cheer you up and stop you smelling yourself too much

 

[Squeaky]

I’m successfully at 30MG today! But wow…could really use some guidance with the sweating and shaking in my sleep. My boyfriend thinks I’m possessed.

Don’t get too comfortable. Wd’s start anywhere from a few hours to about one day. They can keep climbing until about day 4. Be ready for some ‘extra’ hell in the next few days.

The sweats at night an when it’s cold outside are the most disturbing for me. That’s the one symptom that I can’t hide.

It’s a game of percentages. Going from 150mg per day to 30 will likely feel the same as going from 30mg per day to about 10. And the closer you get to zero, the more each milligram hurts.

As for the valium.... don’t get too aggressive. I had a small seizure trying to cold turkey from 6 mg per day of Ativan. You can try reducing your morning and afternoon doses by 1/2 and taking the remainder of your daily doses before bed to sleep. If you have access to plenty of valium, I suggest you stock up. That crap lives in your blood for a long time and it can take up to a year(after long term abuse) for a successful taper without life threatening side effects.

Just remember..... you started taking opiates for probably one reason, but they change so many aspects of the way your mind and body function. They reduce appetite, cause constipation, disable pain receptors that weren’t even hurting, put you to sleep, give you patience, and on and on. When you stop, every one of those thing will be turned upside down and backwards. You get diarrhea, vomiting, insomnia, sweating, pain EVERYWHERE, etc, etc, etc.... And it doesn’t even start getting better for several days.

Just don’t give up. Imagine going through this and deciding you deserve a little break. It won’t be little. One slip can take you back to square one.

 

[Chichimami]

QS as

Wow. I floored. I could cry with gratitude. Thank you so much. These were some of the very specific questions I needed answered.

I have been experiencing the intense withdrawals everytime I step down in dose! That’s exactly what happens. But also I have been very regimented and I’m doing a fairly fast step down. I’m 10 days in and down from 90-150mg/day to 30-45mg/day. I am taking at scheduled times and definitely trying to disassociate any good feelings. Just keepin the withdrawal manageable. I have a fair bit to go a week or so at 30mg/day. But I also chose this route so that i would in fact feel the consequences.

I have found that Valium at .5 mg 3-4x a day is keeping my shakes away. I’m a tattoo artist and I can’t shake when I’m with clients obviously. I can’t for the life of me sleep. My boyfriend is so worried. I’m already quite thin and this is obviously progressing disordered eating. Weed is helping with the apetite and stomach though, I’m in California. So I can get that easily. The night terrors and sweats are killing me though. I’ll try taking my lady dose tonight very late. I also have muscle relaxers which have helped, but the twitching and shaking in my sleep has put me on the couch.

I actually developed a massive kratom addiction last summer after detoxing with it. So I can’t use it this time around.

This is all very isolating and embarrassing and I’m so grateful for all the advice. I don’t think I’ll be going the Subox route. I’m hoping at the end of the taper there will be so little in my system I will transition ok. Last summer I had a seizure while detoxing. So the Valium is really important for me.

Thank you again! And anything else is appreciated!!!!

taking my last dose at night When I went to bed was a game changer! I actually slept. Wow. Sleep is such a blessing in withdrawals.

I don’t have insurence. I do live in a big progressive city. But I have no idea how to obtain the medications you guys are talking about. The US sucks. What were the most recommended herbal? I don’t think I can try kratom again, my boyfriend will lose it. And it hurts my stomach so much. I have s panic disorder and complex ptsd so Valium is easy enough to obtain and I actually dislike the skeepy feeling. I don’t have concerns about leaving that behind.

Just how everyone has a different road to this hell….I hated drinking and other drugs. Made me sick. But I fell in love with it oxy and norco.

 

[Chichimami]

Also forgive my typos. I have very long nails.

 

[Chichimami]

Don’t get too comfortable. Wd’s start anywhere from a few hours to about one day. They can keep climbing until about day 4. Be ready for some ‘extra’ hell in the next few days.

The sweats at night an when it’s cold outside are the most disturbing for me. That’s the one symptom that I can’t hide.

It’s a game of percentages. Going from 150mg per day to 30 will likely feel the same as going from 30mg per day to about 10. And the closer you get to zero, the more each milligram hurts.

As for the valium.... don’t get too aggressive. I had a small seizure trying to cold turkey from 6 mg per day of Ativan. You can try reducing your morning and afternoon doses by 1/2 and taking the remainder of your daily doses before bed to sleep. If you have access to plenty of valium, I suggest you stock up. That crap lives in your blood for a long time and it can take up to a year(after long term abuse) for a successful taper without life threatening side effects.

Just remember..... you started taking opiates for probably one reason, but they change so many aspects of the way your mind and body function. They reduce appetite, cause constipation, disable pain receptors that weren’t even hurting, put you to sleep, give you patience, and on and on. When you stop, every one of those thing will be turned upside down and backwards. You get diarrhea, vomiting, insomnia, sweating, pain EVERYWHERE, etc, etc, etc.... And it doesn’t even start getting better for several days.

Just don’t give up. Imagine going through this and deciding you deserve a little break. It won’t be little. One slip can take you back to square one.

With the Valium….I’m at such a low dose. About 1.5-2mg/day. It’s also been a medication that’s been apart of my life a long time so I don’t think I have to worry too much about the step away with that one. I can feel the intensity of electricity in my body and the brain misfiring. It’s so horrific. So I’m grateful I have it. In daily life I enjoy not being tired though, and Valium has never been euphoric or fun to take. I’m so afraid of a seizure and Valium keeps those at bay.

I HAVE noticed my taper seems to get easier as the dose is smaller. The initial big step down was like death. And now each step down is hard but manageable. Do you think even the conservative and low dose step down will destroy me? Those first days were unreal. I just want to be prepared for the end of the taper.