Positive The Tapering Support Thread v 2.0

Ugh, I don't like tapering. But sudden is worse. Every time I move, the world spins clockwise or down, I nearly met the carpet face first going to the loo last night.
Of course I keep thinking it's covid or something deadly. I've another tumour to be removed at the end of September, I'm shitting myself as usual, scares me, but I need to do this.
First I need to be safe in hospital and not going into withdrawal infront of them. Second, I'll need the pain relief to work for real physical pain and not just my personal needs, which wouldn't impress the doctors much.
Probably not a dangerous tumour, I've had one before, but this is in the roof of my mouth, so will hurt afterwards.
My cat died from mouth cancer, I'm sure humans get it too.
Only had 5g of pods yesterday and a bump of buprenorphine. My use had crept up to 25g-30g a day average over the summer. Had a good big cup this morning, yesterday's big drop was to shock me into realising I'm doing this. Not quitting, just reducing as much as I can manage, those are both on long half lives and I'm drinking grapefruit to hang onto it longer.
My problem this time is my tolerance for weed is ridiculous, I vape 20% stuff and a gram a day isn't even touching the sides. I don't want to go back to concentrates for tolerance reasons, so again I must reduce or it will never work for me again.
As it is I spent this summer trying to recreate some of the bliss of last summer, or was it the summer before, either way it just isn't happening.
I've got to get a grip on all this at some stage, then I disagree with myself and think, "Why bother? It's not as destructive as pills" I wonder if that's true.
I would be afraid to have surgery because the pain management they propose may not work, considering what you’re already taking…having built a tolerance. I had a procedure done during the days of my opioid abuse, and they ended up giving me the max dose of Demerol, and it STILL was extremely uncomfortable. Be careful, buddy.

Weed isn’t as bad as pills to me.
 
I would be afraid to have surgery because the pain management they propose may not work, considering what you’re already taking…having built a tolerance. I had a procedure done during the days of my opioid abuse, and they ended up giving me the max dose of Demerol, and it STILL was extremely uncomfortable. Be careful, buddy.

Weed isn’t as bad as pills to me.
The doctor told me they can't actually close the wound after, they are leaving a hole open there. He said, "they usually heal up very well" but with no skin covering, no neat little stitches, just an open wound in my mouth. Sounds fun, doesn't it?
I wasn't asked my opinion, he told me he had decided to do it, so there we have it, it's happening, lol.
It's ok, I trust them enough so far. They were close to deciding this in January but we were still in lockdown and even the red flag cancer surgeries were being cancelled at the time, so it wouldn't have been practical to say they would do it then.
I expect to be sent home with a few Kapake and told to rest.
I'm buying numbing sprays like anabesol, they use that for tooth extractions, chloroseptic is good too.
Any ideas on what else might work?
 
Ugh, I don't like tapering. But sudden is worse. Every time I move, the world spins clockwise or down, I nearly met the carpet face first going to the loo last night.
Of course I keep thinking it's covid or something deadly. I've another tumour to be removed at the end of September, I'm shitting myself as usual, scares me, but I need to do this.
First I need to be safe in hospital and not going into withdrawal infront of them. Second, I'll need the pain relief to work for real physical pain and not just my personal needs, which wouldn't impress the doctors much.
Probably not a dangerous tumour, I've had one before, but this is in the roof of my mouth, so will hurt afterwards.
My cat died from mouth cancer, I'm sure humans get it too.
Only had 5g of pods yesterday and a bump of buprenorphine. My use had crept up to 25g-30g a day average over the summer. Had a good big cup this morning, yesterday's big drop was to shock me into realising I'm doing this. Not quitting, just reducing as much as I can manage, those are both on long half lives and I'm drinking grapefruit to hang onto it longer.
My problem this time is my tolerance for weed is ridiculous, I vape 20% stuff and a gram a day isn't even touching the sides. I don't want to go back to concentrates for tolerance reasons, so again I must reduce or it will never work for me again.
As it is I spent this summer trying to recreate some of the bliss of last summer, or was it the summer before, either way it just isn't happening.
I've got to get a grip on all this at some stage, then I disagree with myself and think, "Why bother? It's not as destructive as pills" I wonder if that's true.
The mouth heals super dooper fast, because of the enzymes in our saliva or something. My mum explained it to me many years ago (she's a dentist) but I can't quite remember exactly what she said. My dad, brother and sister-in-law are all dentists too but it's nearly 3am here so I can't ask any of them lol. I'll try to remember to ask in the morning.

BUT yes it should actually be fine without stitches.
As for the pain relief, it's really surprising how well the combination of Tylenol + ibuprofen works, cos they potentiate each other. The first day or two is rough but you'll be fine after that ❤️
 
I’m having a heck of a time tapering klonopin; I keep taking a little bit extra; trying to stay at .75mg for the next 6 weeks. But I take 1.75mg on some days.
And then I feel like I am fucking it up!

Don’t feel too bad at .75, no withdrawal; but cravings get the best of me. I want to stay at .75mg; because I also need to cut it again to .5mg/day.
If I am taking .75, should I divide my dose to .25mg at bedtime and .5mg in morning.
Or just .75mg in one dose/day?
 
should I divide my dose to .25mg at bedtime and .5mg in morning.
Or just .75mg in one dose/day
I would say keep doing what you have been doing but try to tame that beast when it wants the 1.75mg for starts cause this will prolong the taper.
I know its hard to taper benzos. A real PITA. Takes a lot of self control and determination.
Do you usually take the .75mg once a day?
 
Tl;dr Yes

I take it at like 2:00 am, same time I take Wellbutrin 24 hr release 300mg.
The wellbutrin kinda makes me feel speedy; so I take .75mg at the same time; and I can sleep till 6 or so. That is the time; I crave the clonazepam and sometimes I just take 1mg then to hopefully go back to sleep for awhile. I should just get up and moving at 6am!
I only seem to sleep in 3 hour maximum time.

Are you familiar with lamictal; I have a psychiatrist that is saying to take 100mg/day; but I only take 50mg so far.
It does seem to drown out the lows of depression; she also wants me to take a stimulant for ADD and motivation; but probably not until I finish the benzo taper. They take me down .25 every three weeks;

I can ask for smaller cuts on the k-pins when I get to .5 in six weeks. (.125mg cuts) if I have withdrawal symptoms. They really are trying to ease me off slowly; but they have no interest in switching me to valium which I hear is easier to wean off. So far no withdrawal and I am down to .75 from 3mg/day.

I also get 40mg methadone/day and 30mg norco/day; so I guess that does make me an overdose risk. If I could get rid of my occipital headache I would be golden as I am feeling more motivated after my last "episode". Simply looking up and I feel achy weak and shaky for a month; including my arms and legs and also Essential tremor. Im torn(pun intended); on weather to pursue another fusion as I have adjacent segment trouble after a disc replacement in summer 2021.
I simple looked up/and down for and xray and one of my vertebrae slides 3mm over 2 fused levels and I was hurting pretty good for a solid month.

Thinking I may be looking at another fusion to correct this condition (I would like to dream that could give me a life without pain); but another surgery is a crapshoot. Although mild in size; not in symptoms. Its at C4 where I have cervical instability but its only grade 1 so no surgeons in
Central Oregon want to touch it. Injections and pain meds is all they are able to offer; I will be tapering the methadone and vicodin next. I fiend out on the vicodin shhheee!; (opioid misuse disorder I know)
After I blow thru the vicodin in a week or so I use kratom for rest of the time.
I guess I am a junky thanks to my liberal pain doc.
my regular doc just wants me to switch to suboxone next......stay tuned if ya want!
Mike
 
The mouth heals super dooper fast, because of the enzymes in our saliva or something. My mum explained it to me many years ago (she's a dentist) but I can't quite remember exactly what she said. My dad, brother and sister-in-law are all dentists too but it's nearly 3am here so I can't ask any of them lol. I'll try to remember to ask in the morning.

BUT yes it should actually be fine without stitches.
As for the pain relief, it's really surprising how well the combination of Tylenol + ibuprofen works, cos they potentiate each other. I've had 3 teeth extracted this year and they wouldn't give me a script for any opioids. So I just had to make do with plain old Tylenol and advil, and aspirin. I alternated between the two, Tylenol + advil, and aspirin on its own. (Don't take ibuprofen and aspirin at the same time cos it's too harsh on your stomach lining). The first day or two is rough but you'll be fine after that ❤️
I had to laugh at their suggested aftercare, "Following surgery, if you require pain relief, any painkillers which you may have at home would be suitable to take."
LMFAO, they really have no idea what they just gave permission for.
 
The doctor told me they can't actually close the wound after, they are leaving a hole open there. He said, "they usually heal up very well" but with no skin covering, no neat little stitches, just an open wound in my mouth. Sounds fun, doesn't it?
I wasn't asked my opinion, he told me he had decided to do it, so there we have it, it's happening, lol.
It's ok, I trust them enough so far. They were close to deciding this in January but we were still in lockdown and even the red flag cancer surgeries were being cancelled at the time, so it wouldn't have been practical to say they would do it then.
I expect to be sent home with a few Kapake and told to rest.
I'm buying numbing sprays like anabesol, they use that for tooth extractions, chloroseptic is good too.
Any ideas on what else might work?
Anything for a sore throat or a toothache will help. Sprays, chews, etc. Anything that you’re not supposed to swallow.
 
I
Tl;dr Yes

I take it at like 2:00 am, same time I take Wellbutrin 24 hr release 300mg.
The wellbutrin kinda makes me feel speedy; so I take .75mg at the same time; and I can sleep till 6 or so. That is the time; I crave the clonazepam and sometimes I just take 1mg then to hopefully go back to sleep for awhile. I should just get up and moving at 6am!
I only seem to sleep in 3 hour maximum time.

Are you familiar with lamictal; I have a psychiatrist that is saying to take 100mg/day; but I only take 50mg so far.
It does seem to drown out the lows of depression; she also wants me to take a stimulant for ADD and motivation; but probably not until I finish the benzo taper. They take me down .25 every three weeks;

I can ask for smaller cuts on the k-pins when I get to .5 in six weeks. (.125mg cuts) if I have withdrawal symptoms. They really are trying to ease me off slowly; but they have no interest in switching me to valium which I hear is easier to wean off. So far no withdrawal and I am down to .75 from 3mg/day.

I also get 40mg methadone/day and 30mg norco/day; so I guess that does make me an overdose risk. If I could get rid of my occipital headache I would be golden as I am feeling more motivated after my last "episode". Simply looking up and I feel achy weak and shaky for a month; including my arms and legs and also Essential tremor. Im torn(pun intended); on weather to pursue another fusion as I have adjacent segment trouble after a disc replacement in summer 2021.
I simple looked up/and down for and xray and one of my vertebrae slides 3mm over 2 fused levels and I was hurting pretty good for a solid month.

Thinking I may be looking at another fusion to correct this condition (I would like to dream that could give me a life without pain); but another surgery is a crapshoot. Although mild in size; not in symptoms. Its at C4 where I have cervical instability but its only grade 1 so no surgeons in
Central Oregon want to touch it. Injections and pain meds is all they are able to offer; I will be tapering the methadone and vicodin next. I fiend out on the vicodin shhheee!; (opioid misuse disorder I know)
After I blow thru the vicodin in a week or so I use kratom for rest of the time.
I guess I am a junky thanks to my liberal pain doc.
my regular doc just wants me to switch to suboxone next......stay tuned if ya want!
Mike
have been on lamictol. It really works, but it literally stole my personality while I was taking it. I was never happy or sad. No creativity. No desire for alcohol or anything else. It kept me from jumping off a bridge, but also made me think that if this is all that life is, maybe it’s just too boring to go on living.
 
Thanks for the input; I'm supposed to titrate up from 25mg 2x/day; but I don't need the extra depersonalization; so I may just stay on the low dose. My psychiatrist gave me it due to low mood; and it seems to work for that; I'll keep taking the low amount for now
 
Thinking I may be looking at another fusion to correct this condition (I would like to dream that could give me a life without pain); but another surgery is a crapshoot.
I had a two level fusion L4-S1. It failed. I had a revision (to fix it), and it failed also. I was a lineman and was forced to climb telephone poles during this time to keep my job and it really sucked. I got a different surgeon and had an additional 3 surgeries to correct the first guy’s mistake AND add another fusion at L3-L4.

The first guy set my bones at the wrong angle. The second guy was an absolute genius. He set it all straight, got me a ‘bone growth stimulator’. Now I’m much better. The moral of this story is that you might need a different surgeon.

As for sleep.... you know you don’t sleep when the opiates are gone. It took me about a year after I quit (mostly) taking oxy, before I could really sleep at all. Kratom helps but it is also a stimulate like coffee. Now I burn through my little script of Percocet’s in about 3 days, spend the next week wishing I wasn’t so stupid, and start sleeping pretty OK about 1/2 way through the month. The opiates make for good sleep, but also cause insomnia when they’re gone. It’s several months of abstinence before that even starts to return to normal. Now I use THC gummies for sleep. I avoid Kratom for a couple of hours before bed. And after a week of wd’s each month, I actually sleep pretty good.

It’s not the life I wanted, but I can honestly say that my life with pain is better than my life with pills. I couldn’t see that when I had pills all of the time. I actually went 4 months with zero opiates and I still wasn’t sleeping well. It was about a year before I got here. More pills was all I wanted, and now I really wish I never had any at all. And I don’t believe that adding more prescriptions is a solution.

Imagine needing something for pain but it stops you from sleeping. Then they prescribe something for sleep but it makes you drowsy at work. So you drink more coffee and it makes you feel like you can’t concentrate. They prescribe something to stabilize your mood..... etc etc etc. It’s a never-ending roller coaster. And the irony is that the pain killers are probably the source of a lot of your pain when they quickly wear off. I can only speak to my own experience but that’s exactly what happened to me.

I had to change jobs so that I wasn’t destroying my body. My new job requires me to be NOT in wd, so I gave up my awesome script of 100 oxy 30’s every month because I knew I couldn’t control my usage. Now that I’m past the worst of the wd’s (15 months later), I can see that I am still in pain but it is on average less than my pain when I had oxy to treat my pain, and it had nothing to do with my job.
 
Thanks for the input; I'm supposed to titrate up from 25mg 2x/day; but I don't need the extra depersonalization; so I may just stay on the low dose. My psychiatrist gave me it due to low mood; and it seems to work for that; I'll keep taking the low amount for now
I'm on 200mg of Lamictal at the moment. AFAIK 50mg is not much and according to my doc, I believe 150 to 200mg is the lowest therapeutic dose. I did not notice if it affects my mood like others say, but I've also been on the max dose of Abilify, which is an antipsychotic. I'm pretty sure if anything causes me to not feel emotions, it's the Abilify.
 
So I discovered something. a whole box of powdered pods in a week makes thinking difficult, but it's nice. I don't know why thinking gets difficult, I never really had that fuzziness before with opies, must be one of the other alkaloids it packs doesn't clear.
Very pleased with myself, it's the weekend and usually I grind up enough for the week, I've enough for another week.
My thinking is fuzzy, I can't work out if its a third or a half of my usual use last week.
Basically I ditched the expresso pot and went back to making teabags, it slows me down that way. With an expresso pot you can get seriously flucked up in a short space of time, but it uses far more pods. So I'll keep my use low until my little op then I'll reinstate the expresso pot and float around while healing.
 
I had to change jobs so that I wasn’t destroying my body. My new job requires me to be NOT in wd, so I gave up my awesome script of 100 oxy 30’s every month because I knew I couldn’t control my usage. Now that I’m past the worst of the wd’s (15 months later), I can see that I am still in pain but it is on average less than my pain when I had oxy to treat my pain, and it had nothing to do with my job.
I always pick jobs that require very little thought, then it's not a problem to be a bit slow, shame they don't pay well isn't it, lol. More to do with my disability than anything else really, it's all connected.
 
I always pick jobs that require very little thought, then it's not a problem to be a bit slow, shame they don't pay well isn't it, lol. More to do with my disability than anything else really, it's all connected.
I was lucky to change jobs without even changing my work location. Same pay, just less physical work. I had been so focused on needed my script to handle my pains that I couldn’t see the script was the source of much of that pain.

Everyone talks about the insomnia, nausea, joint pain, etc. Nobody really seems to understand that the depression and some of that pain lasts for months to years after stopping. It’s a cruel irony: stops pain, then creates pain, then leaves you so depressed that you can’t live normally without it, and it all goes on forever.
 
So I discovered something. a whole box of powdered pods in a week makes thinking difficult, but it's nice. I don't know why thinking gets difficult, I never really had that fuzziness before with opies, must be one of the other alkaloids it packs doesn't clear.
Very pleased with myself, it's the weekend and usually I grind up enough for the week, I've enough for another week.
My thinking is fuzzy, I can't work out if its a third or a half of my usual use last week.
Basically I ditched the expresso pot and went back to making teabags, it slows me down that way. With an expresso pot you can get seriously flucked up in a short space of time, but it uses far more pods. So I'll keep my use low until my little op then I'll reinstate the expresso pot and float around while healing.
Part of the reason I never tried sniffing, and most of the reason I risk my liver instead of CWE on my perc’s, is that it makes it soooo easy to get a huge amount without any roadblocks. Instant and complete gratification = deeper into the abyss. I don’t judge anyone who does it but I feel like I need at least something to slow me down.
 
My life is so much better now. I still struggle with my prescription every month. Still use it all in 3 days. Still have pain from my surgeries. Still hate getting up in the morning. Still have trouble sleeping. BUT.....

A year ago I was miserable. Everything hurt (except when I had pills). I NEVER slept (except when I took my pills). My brains were scrambled most of the day, every day (except when I had pills).... See the pattern? I do.

Those little blue pills were my salvation, and my worst enemy. They made it stop sucking until they wore off, then were the reason everything sucked so much worse. I was in pain throughout my whole body even though I had only lower back problems. I connected the dots back then and felt for certain that all of my aches and pains were connected to the lack of sleep and lack of exercise, for which I blamed the back pain. And when I didn’t have them for a couple of months, I was absolutely certain that they couldn’t possibly be still having any effect.

I was so wrong. My doctors were so wrong. Google was so wrong. A year and a half later I’m finally seeing the truth: A couple of years on opiates= a couple of years to get back to normal. It’s unbelievable but I have seen a couple of documentaries about it, so it’s not just me, and they all say 2 years before the body fixed itself after prolonged oxy use.

I said it recently but it bears repeating..... My life with my pain is a lot better than my life was with pain killers. They really only should be a VERY short term solution.
 
My life is so much better now. I still struggle with my prescription every month. Still use it all in 3 days. Still have pain from my surgeries. Still hate getting up in the morning. Still have trouble sleeping. BUT.....

A year ago I was miserable. Everything hurt (except when I had pills). I NEVER slept (except when I took my pills). My brains were scrambled most of the day, every day (except when I had pills).... See the pattern? I do.

Those little blue pills were my salvation, and my worst enemy. They made it stop sucking until they wore off, then were the reason everything sucked so much worse. I was in pain throughout my whole body even though I had only lower back problems. I connected the dots back then and felt for certain that all of my aches and pains were connected to the lack of sleep and lack of exercise, for which I blamed the back pain. And when I didn’t have them for a couple of months, I was absolutely certain that they couldn’t possibly be still having any effect.

I was so wrong. My doctors were so wrong. Google was so wrong. A year and a half later I’m finally seeing the truth: A couple of years on opiates= a couple of years to get back to normal. It’s unbelievable but I have seen a couple of documentaries about it, so it’s not just me, and they all say 2 years before the body fixed itself after prolonged oxy use.

I said it recently but it bears repeating..... My life with my pain is a lot better than my life was with pain killers. They really only should be a VERY short term solution.
Great you are in a better place now Squeaky :)
In truth you aren't really on the pills any more.
You have no pills for 23 days then a three day party after which you are clean for the rest of the month.
Definitely don't beat yourself up about those three days, we all need a break, a few days off in a month. The substance isn't alcohol, but if someone took alcohol in the way you take percocet, you might call them an occasional binge drinker, my point is you aren't going to think it's abnormal behaviour.
You are doing great Squeaky.
 
T
Great you are in a better place now Squeaky :)
In truth you aren't really on the pills any more.
You have no pills for 23 days then a three day party after which you are clean for the rest of the month.
Definitely don't beat yourself up about those three days, we all need a break, a few days off in a month. The substance isn't alcohol, but if someone took alcohol in the way you take percocet, you might call them an occasional binge drinker, my point is you aren't going to think it's abnormal behaviour.
You are doing great Squeaky.
Thank you.
I’m not beating myself up too much. Obviously it would be great to be completely done, but this is definitely progress.
 
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