Ethnobotanicals The Small & Handy Sinicuichi (Heimia Salicifolia) Thread

[Mycophile]

Sinicuichi the "Sun Opener", anyone ever tried it?

Centralized

FAQ: https://www.erowid.org/plants/sinicuichi/sinicuichi_faq.shtml

Hey,

Many years ago I read about a Mexican shamanic herb which is legal called Sinicuichi also known as the sun opener.

Supposedly you brew a tea and it gives you mild auditory hallucinations and kind of gives everything a yellowish hue and mellows you out and is a mild hallucinogen.

I was wondering if anyone on here ever tried it and if so what was your experience like or if not has anyone at least heard of someone else trying it?

I don't know why I haven't experimented with it yet, always meant to.

It's possible however I might have once done it without knowing its since many years ago I ordered a bundle of mixed herbs and smoked them with weed and got weird auditory hallucinations, listening to Strawberry Alarm Clock on my record player the music seemed to come from far away or as if I was under water.

I think Sinicuichi MIGHT have been in there, since that has always been the description, that "sounds some to come from a great distance away".

It's also been said that one can have "pre-natal memories" on it.

Sounds unusual but fascinating.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yes I did. I will link you to my report, you should read it and take caution. I will summarize below.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=40382

When I took it, at the recommended dosage, I experienced some dropping in sound but after a couple of hours my body was in extreme pain, all my muscles. When I say extreme, I mean, I felt like I was crippled, like I had some terrible disease. It was truly horrible, and it lasted a long time. It felt very, very wrong, I will never, ever touch the stuff again.

I have read of other people experiencing this too, and also of people not experiencing it. I believe traditional use called for soaking it in water in the sunlight and allowing it to ferment slightly before consuming it. Perhaps this is to break down or convert some component in there that causes muscle pains. Even if I were to find out that's true (and I think it likely is), I wouldn't touch it again, that's how horrible it was. And also, the sound modulation is weird, it makes all pitches lower, sort of like DiPT does but nowhere near as powerfully and not in a psychedelic way, just literally pitches lower. It's kind of novel but it's not too exciting, and it lasts for like days. I was scared that it would never go back to normal and music didn't sound right and I would have been crushed if that were true. Of course, sound did go back to normal. But just, overall, I hated that experience very much, and I didn't even get a high. I do not recommend it at all.

Also, I never tried smoking it, so I couldn't tell you about that. But the dosage is supposed to be like 10 grams so I think it's meant to be consumed.

 

[Mycophile]

Yes I did. I will link you to my report, you should read it and take caution. I will summarize below.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=40382

When I took it, at the recommended dosage, I experienced some dropping in sound but after a couple of hours my body was in extreme pain, all my muscles. When I say extreme, I mean, I felt like I was crippled, like I had some terrible disease. It was truly horrible, and it lasted a long time. It felt very, very wrong, I will never, ever touch the stuff again.

I have read of other people experiencing this too, and also of people not experiencing it. I believe traditional use called for soaking it in water in the sunlight and allowing it to ferment slightly before consuming it. Perhaps this is to break down or convert some component in there that causes muscle pains. Even if I were to find out that's true (and I think it likely is), I wouldn't touch it again, that's how horrible it was. And also, the sound modulation is weird, it makes all pitches lower, sort of like DiPT does but nowhere near as powerfully and not in a psychedelic way, just literally pitches lower. It's kind of novel but it's not too exciting, and it lasts for like days. I was scared that it would never go back to normal and music didn't sound right and I would have been crushed if that were true. Of course, sound did go back to normal. But just, overall, I hated that experience very much, and I didn't even get a high. I do not recommend it at all.

Also, I never tried smoking it, so I couldn't tell you about that. But the dosage is supposed to be like 10 grams so I think it's meant to be consumed.

Wow, sorry to hear about that, that sounds horrible from your trip report!!

I wouldn't ever want to feel that way.

Too bad because I have been fascinated by this obscure substance for over 10 years now.

For some reason I have always grouped it in with Salvia Divinorum and the dream herb Calea Zacatechichi, both of which I love, probably because they all grow mainly in Mexico and have shamanic uses. I also THOUGHT I heard they were related, or at least Salvia and Calea I THINK are related.

I would like to hear if anyone else who has tried it had different experiences?

Maybe there are more trip reports of it on Erowid.

I still wouldn't say you 100% scared me off as people have different reactions and as you said, you may in fact have been allergic.

Oddly enough I have known people allergic to both weed and alcohol (never thought either was possible) who experienced the worst things when using them.

From all the pain you experienced I can't imagine that that was the typical experience for the Mexican Native Americans who utilized it, otherwise they never would have.

Any other info on it from anyone else however would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah it's true, I'm sure I had some sort of unusual reaction. I have read other reports of reactions like mine, with the muscle pain, I believe I recall all of them didn't let the tea ferment. I had forgotten that I did leave the tea in the fridge for a couple of days first but out in the air at room temperature is a lot different from in the fridge. So in conclusion I don't know, but I can't recommend it personally. I'd do some research into its exact traditional use and go with that way. I believe it involves leaving it out for a day in the sun but it's been a long time since I looked into it.

 

[Mr.Trees]

Its not worth it dude, it really isnt. Just get yourself some good bud. I smoked a few grams of the stuff in one sitting and felt nothing besides a slight euphoria and relaxation which was then outweighed by the itching i felt. I bought an ounce off amazon and just gave it away to my friends it wasnt worth it. I also felt very itchy after smoking, most likely caused by my allergy to grass, and the stench isnt terrible but it sticks to everything and you end up smelling like sun opener for the rest of the day which could get annoying lol. I didnt notice any yellow tint to my vision even with smoking a few grams in my bong. Its cheap though which would be the only reason to buy it, you might as well try the stuff out. I never made the tea but my friend did with about 10 grams of the stuff and said he was hearing flanging of sounds in his room and kept hearing various sounds in his room, so i guess thats something.

 

[《Plasticity》]

I was just gonna link you to xorkoths TR but he beat me to it and like he said there are other people who experienced similar reactions as well as lasting audio effects that continue for several days, this is a drug to avoid. I also had interest in this plant but after doing research you couldn't pay me to take it.

 

[elucidator]

I have tried smoking it, and noticed very subtle changes to how my optic nerves felt behind my eyes, slightly tense sort of effects, and way too subtle so I promptly forgot about the bag that I have for some time.
I have read a few reports where the tea has been under the sun for a day, and it seems that there seems to be some kind of nauseating aspect that the sun is blasting off during the brewing process.
I hope to try a brew of this herb very soon, and will most probably post a trip report, depending on the level of fx (my Sinicuichi is a few years old).

 

[Solipsis]

Isn't this an oneirogen (a dream producer rather than a trip-producer)?

I'm not sure if it was this I tried or the other common oneirogen but what I took made for a really nasty brew and I can't be sure of any possible effects though I wouldn't go as far as to say it did nothing.
Also I think some of these herb oneirogens can have a lot of messed up side-effects but I kinda forgot what they were (sorry, drunk now also)..

In any case be sure to try it just before you go to sleep for maximum result!

(edit: YES! I think Calea Z. was the other one which I tried and this one was the side-effect prone one)

 

[Mycophile]

Isn't this an oneirogen (a dream producer rather than a trip-producer)?

I'm not sure if it was this I tried or the other common oneirogen but what I took made for a really nasty brew and I can't be sure of any possible effects though I wouldn't go as far as to say it did nothing.
Also I think some of these herb oneirogens can have a lot of messed up side-effects but I kinda forgot what they were (sorry, drunk now also)..

In any case be sure to try it just before you go to sleep for maximum result!

(edit: YES! I think Calea Z. was the other one which I tried and this one was the side-effect prone one)

I've tried Calea mixed with Salvia and weed and it gave me weird dreams.

What are the side effects it can have??

The time I did it was like 12-14 years ago and I had the most vivid hallucinations ever on Salvia and I think the 2 had a synergistic effect. In fact, I have heard both also have synergistic effects with weed as well.

I remember that time I first smoked a bunch of weed, then drank some nasty Calea tea, then smoked some straight calea, then some calea mixed with more weed and finally took bong hits of Salvia and talked to a floating diamond with a face which said it was "Salvia". By far the coolest hallucination I've EVER had!! Then after that I went to sleep and had weird dreams all night long but I could not remember what they were other than that I kept seeing the color blue.

I always thought Calea was harmless.

However, I did have one "weird" side effect of waking up in the middle of the night and having the sensation that my "brain was wet".

Some kid told me years later "oh yeah man your brain was hemorrhaging" but I SERIOUSLY doubt that to be the case as if so I wouldn't have woken up the next day just feeling 100% fine.

I have in fact considered trying Calea again, especially mixed with Salvia, but not if it has bad side effects.

 

[Solipsis]

Indeed, it was the Calea that produces nasty brews but is essentially harmless and the siniciuchi that could produce fucked up complaints like, I wanna say severe earpain? Really it is a hard detail to ask for, I would have to google righteously which you can do yourself instead. Sorryz.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Nope never but I am sure someone I know has.

 

[sekio]

Calea Z. is almost inedibly bitter... "nasty brew" is putting it lightly.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Calea Z. is almost inedibly bitter... "nasty brew" is putting it lightly.

You think one could make a tincture with it, to get it down easier? That way you need less substance?

 

[Doldrugs]

I tried this with my lady friend recently, mixed with weed and indian warrior. We both had definite effects, and while I suppose it could have been the weed alone it felt very distinct from the cannabis high and I've used this weed before with no such effects.

We both experienced odd moving patterning on the wall. It was like curved lines snaking around each other. My lady friend only faintly experienced anything, I had it stronger. I also had mild psychedelic thought patterns, confusion and nonsense thoughts. The patterning on the wall reminded me of visuals I've seen on LSA, but obviously less intense, not as geometric and only in 2D. The duration for the visual was pretty short, ten or fifteen minutes maybe, and mental effects persisted longer.

These effects were nothing like I was expecting from reading about this plant. None of the traditional effects (yellowed vision, auditory hallucinations, etc) occurred. I'm going to try the tea next, since it's supposed to work better. I'm not looking forward to it, since the vapor had a subtly disgusting swamp water flavor. It didn't bother my lady at all, though.

 

[Mycophile]

I tried this with my lady friend recently, mixed with weed and indian warrior. We both had definite effects, and while I suppose it could have been the weed alone it felt very distinct from the cannabis high and I've used this weed before with no such effects.

We both experienced odd moving patterning on the wall. It was like curved lines snaking around each other. My lady friend only faintly experienced anything, I had it stronger. I also had mild psychedelic thought patterns, confusion and nonsense thoughts. The patterning on the wall reminded me of visuals I've seen on LSA, but obviously less intense, not as geometric and only in 2D. The duration for the visual was pretty short, ten or fifteen minutes maybe, and mental effects persisted longer.

These effects were nothing like I was expecting from reading about this plant. None of the traditional effects (yellowed vision, auditory hallucinations, etc) occurred. I'm going to try the tea next, since it's supposed to work better. I'm not looking forward to it, since the vapor had a subtly disgusting swamp water flavor. It didn't bother my lady at all, though.

Hmmm, so you didn't experience any bad effects or muscle cramping?

I've always wanted to try this stuff and would try it but Xorkoth's trip report about INSANE muscle cramping and auditory hallucinations for days made me not want to.

Please tell us your experiences after you drink the tea because I'm curious as hell.

 

[Xorkoth]

I am thinking that smoked doesn't do that, as in re-reading my report I remembered that I had tried smoking it too (though it was very harsh and nasty so I got maybe a gram down).

I am betting that the traditional use, making a sun tea by putting the leaves in (hot?) water and letting them sit in the sun for a day, does something to prevent this effect, maybe because of light fermentation. But I'm not about to find out myself. That one time was more than enough for me. DiPT is a MUCH more interesting sound distorter, and a fabulous psychedelic as well. That muscle pain scared me, a lot. It was horrendous, by FAR the worst muscle pain I have ever felt, I had a hard time breathing through the pain, and was barely able to walk.

 

[Mycophile]

I am thinking that smoked doesn't do that, as in re-reading my report I remembered that I had tried smoking it too (though it was very harsh and nasty so I got maybe a gram down).

I am betting that the traditional use, making a sun tea by putting the leaves in (hot?) water and letting them sit in the sun for a day, does something to prevent this effect, maybe because of light fermentation. But I'm not about to find out myself. That one time was more than enough for me. DiPT is a MUCH more interesting sound distorter, and a fabulous psychedelic as well. That muscle pain scared me, a lot. It was horrendous, by FAR the worst muscle pain I have ever felt, I had a hard time breathing through the pain, and was barely able to walk.

That sounds pretty bad yeah.

DiPT is on of those research chemicals though right?

Man, I just don't feel comfortable ordering those things and trying them out.

I don't know why though that I feel somewhat more comfortable ordering rare psychedelic herbs through the mail and trying them, but to be honest there's not that many that I have done and the ones I did try were mostly years ago.

Lately I have tried and enjoyed Indian Warrior, and tried and had no effects from Klip Dagga and Mugwort, and effectively started enjoying Kratom.

Also had no effects from Kava.

Years ago I'd tried Morning Glories and BHW seeds and had a bad experience where I got really sick and had blurred vision for days, I tried a weird herb mixture that gave me somewhat scary auditory hallucinations (maybe from Sinicuichi???) and flushed it many years ago, and of course enjoyed salvia many times.

But I feel like it's a big leap to get into Research Chemicals, physically and psychologically and especially because I take medications that no one knows if they interact badly with (though people have theories) and considering I know jack shit about science, have never accurately weighed out any psychedelic or drug for that matter, hell, I can't even cook much...and all of these things somehow lead to me feeling that it would be too likely for me to have a very bad experience if I tried an obscure RC.

I don't really know how people on here do make the leap from trying known and understood drugs to RCs.

Perhaps most don't really care in the first place and will just put anything into their bodies, but I haven't heard from people on here who had many months or years of trepidation before finally experimenting with them.

 

[Doldrugs]

Yeah I stick mostly with drugs that have a long history of use, but I respect those who try new stuff. It's too much of a risk for me. I'd try DiPT if I could get my hands on it, though. It's fascinating.

I had no negative effects beside a bit of itching, which I've read sinicuichi can cause. I smoked very little of it, though. I will update when I try the tea.

 

[InterestingFACT]

That sounds pretty bad yeah, not sure I'd want to risk that plus who knows how it could interact with Prozac and/or Klonopin which I am on...

DiPT is on of those research chemicals though right?

Man, I just don't feel comfortable ordering those things and trying them out.

I don't know why though that I feel somewhat more comfortable ordering rare psychedelic herbs through the mail and trying them, but to be honest there's not that many that I have done and the ones I did try were mostly years ago.

Lately I have tried and enjoyed Indian Warrior, and tried and had no effects from Klip Dagga and Mugwort, and effectively started enjoying Kratom.

Also had no effects from Kava.

Years ago I'd tried Morning Glories and BHW seeds and had a bad experience where I got really sick and had blurred vision for days, I tried a weird herb mixture that gave me somewhat scary auditory hallucinations (maybe from Sinicuichi???) and flushed it many years ago, and of course enjoyed salvia many times.

But I feel like it's a big leap to get into Research Chemicals, physically and psychologically and especially because I take medications that no one knows if they interact badly with (though people have theories) and considering I know jack shit about science, have never accurately weighed out any psychedelic or drug for that matter, hell, I can't even cook much...and all of these things somehow lead to me feeling that it would be too likely for me to have a very bad experience if I tried an obscure RC.

I don't really know how people on here do make the leap from trying known and understood drugs to RCs.

Perhaps most don't really care in the first place and will just put anything into their bodies, but I haven't heard from people on here who had many months or years of trepidation before finally experimenting with them.

I'm one of those people--but mostly because of the psychological barrier of ordering a powder that's an analogue of an illegal substance from a shady vendor, and less due to concern about the actual substance.

Of course that's a factor too--for example I've never tried an NBOMe and never will. I started out with "well known" chemicals that have a long history of use and can be expected to behave very similarly to other more well known chemicals. Eg. My first ever order of RCs consisted of ethylphenidate (ritalin), 4-ho-mipt (shrooms, and RC tryptamines seem to be very safe), etizolam (prescribed in India, definitely safe).

After that, you just sort of branch out. I ordered a milligram scale, however. Definitely a must to deal with this stuff. I got it earlier to accurately measure some other stuff that aren't exactly RCs (yohimbine, caffeine anhydrous, noopept, etc).

 

[Xorkoth]

That sounds pretty bad yeah, not sure I'd want to risk that plus who knows how it could interact with Prozac and/or Klonopin which I am on...

DiPT is on of those research chemicals though right?

Man, I just don't feel comfortable ordering those things and trying them out.

I don't know why though that I feel somewhat more comfortable ordering rare psychedelic herbs through the mail and trying them, but to be honest there's not that many that I have done and the ones I did try were mostly years ago.

Lately I have tried and enjoyed Indian Warrior, and tried and had no effects from Klip Dagga and Mugwort, and effectively started enjoying Kratom.

Also had no effects from Kava.

Years ago I'd tried Morning Glories and BHW seeds and had a bad experience where I got really sick and had blurred vision for days, I tried a weird herb mixture that gave me somewhat scary auditory hallucinations (maybe from Sinicuichi???) and flushed it many years ago, and of course enjoyed salvia many times.

But I feel like it's a big leap to get into Research Chemicals, physically and psychologically and especially because I take medications that no one knows if they interact badly with (though people have theories) and considering I know jack shit about science, have never accurately weighed out any psychedelic or drug for that matter, hell, I can't even cook much...and all of these things somehow lead to me feeling that it would be too likely for me to have a very bad experience if I tried an obscure RC.

I don't really know how people on here do make the leap from trying known and understood drugs to RCs.

Perhaps most don't really care in the first place and will just put anything into their bodies, but I haven't heard from people on here who had many months or years of trepidation before finally experimenting with them.

Yeah DiPT is a research chemical for sure, however in my experience with it, for me, it seems extremely benign. And it's also a wonderful entheogen, if perhaps a very different sort of entheogen than anything else I've ever tried. Sinicuichi wasn't entheogenic at all for me.

People make the jump I suppose in the same way that people make any jump. You read a bunch of peoples' experiences and decide that it sounds worth trying. Most of the RC psychedelics I've tried have been worth trying, some I never tried again, but a few have become some of my favorites. LSD was a "research chemical" at some point too. And plenty of plants can be very dangerous, even lethal. I had a worse experience on sinicuichi than I have on any single RC I have tried, and I've tried a LOT of them. It's a gradual process. I respect if someone is unwilling to go there, for sure, but for me, I make informed decisions and I am someone who is very curious and enthusiastic about psychedelics. There are definitely some I don't wish to ever mess with (for example, the NBOMes). But when it comes to Shulgin's creations, I am mostly willing to experiment.