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☛ Official ☚ The Small & Handy BOHB (beta-hydroxy-2C-B) thread

what Incunabula said

and using Lithium Aluminium Hydride in a home lab setting is fucking irresponsible
 
I actually think it's been made and was supposedly very active but I can't tell you much else. Dialkylamine PEA stims are pretty terrible too but phenmetrazines or pyrrolidines can indeed have activity although in the latter case it's perhaps somewhat of a coincidence since it's mostly reuptake inhibitors rather than releasers. So I guess increased activity at the transporters even if it's abolished at like VMAT2. Just to give an example of surprising SAR when you enter a whole other league.

Also lysergamides contain tertiary PEA skeleton in there somewhere... various 5-HT2A agonist psychedelics can fit pretty differently in the receptor, it's not that whether PEA or trypt or lysergamide the phenyl ring and amine are always binding in the same spot etc, in case of tryptamines the molecule can be flipped when it binds, surprisingly. So: even if according to conventional 2C-X SAR tertiary amines are no bueno, they can probably still be active if they bind a little differently altogether (flipped ligand, or moved up to other pockets and residues) and your previous SAR reasoning breaks down.

Seems to me that if these psychedelics can bind so differently, some of the similarities we see may be kind of coincidental and the possibilities may be much less limited. It would be nice if there would be some computational design for an entirely new class of psychedelics.
 
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Excuse me I accidently deleted my previous post, I'm in full packed train on my mobile phone.

Previous post:
"I'm very sorry Incunabula, I wasn't aware of it even though i read the rules (not good enough) that the hypothesis of mechanisms is not allowed thanks for the reminder. To bagseed, I never said I or anybody else used it in a home lab or did I?

Incunabula, thanks for the input on tertiary amines, it actually makes it even more intriguing to me to test the activity in vitro."

Solipsis, thank you very much for that answer, that's what I thought about good discussions.
Well I might look up some molecule databases at out university maybe something pops up. I just realized it wouldn't be a tertiary amine anyway only a secondary but that doesn't play a big role now. I also thought about the morpholine ring being sort of a special bonding to the amine with the oxygen pulling electrons. Well it is not a conjugated system but I suspect the morpholine ring behaves different than a normal secondary amine and as you said it might bind on different places with different affinities.
 
Oh right, guess I was thinking of N-phenethylmorpholine type compounds when I wrote that, but yes still the argument for shifted binding stands, because even for a secondary amine it sounded quite active - normally simpler secondary amine PEAs are like a 10-fold weaker or so than their parents IIRC.

I doubt you will find it in academic articles, at least that is not what I was talking about. It was more of a DOB analogue by the way, had that methyl on the morpholine just like phenmetrazine has.

I don't think phenmetrazine / DOX hybrids etc are that special with regard to any conjugation or coordination, not like psilocin or maybe BOHB which may have some coordination going on between the OH and amine making a change to BBB permeability due to lessened polarity.
 
I see, thank you. So I guess I'll search for some articles on BBB permeability, affinity and bioavailability of morpholine compounds with corresponding beta-Hydroxy analogues. Maybe something useful will show up.

To your previous post, we have a course called "Computational Science and Drug Design" at the departement of pharmaceutical sciences. They investigate their time on building databanks and creating programs. The corresponding professor showed me his lab and their work, as I showed some interest in his research after he gave a 4 hours course on LSD history =D. They created an algorithm to search for molecules or lead compounds for any known and researched receptor or enzyme with wanted effect. So they could possibly start new databanks on psychedelics and their effects and as they work with the fuzzy pharmacophore princip and tanimoto index they can let the programm generate totally new compounds fitting the researched binding sites. I agree with you it would be so nice to get some research in this area.
 
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Did I say tertiary? I meant secondary......Phenmetrazine is a secondary amine. lol :D

Actually, MDMA is a secondary amine, and it's a weak psychedelic, as in being a weak agonist with activity at the 5-HT2 serotonin receptors (according to wiki) So that's one case that prooves that what I said isn't always true.

I also do get what your saying, Solipsis. I would still be very surprised though, if phenmetrazine analogs of the classic PEA's turned out to be psychedelics.
 
Yes but no problem what so ever. :)
Yeah you're right.

Whats actually up with the NBOMe's and NBMD's family then? I did not research a lot about them. How does it come that they are so potent and psychedelic while being secondaries?
 
Good point :) I wish I could answer, and it just underpins what Solipsis said.

They must be binding completely differently to the serotonin receptor than the classical phenethylamines, I'm guessing a methyl or ethyl on the nitrogen isn't enough to force the whole molecule into that part of the receptor. Something like a benzyl seems to be neccesary.
Notice that alpha-methyl versions of NBOMe aren't active until 10's of mg's and the most potent NBOMe known is the 4-chloro (isn't it?) which definitely isn't the case with the classic PEA's. So they are clearly binding differently.

If you look in PIHKAL you can see that all the secondary amine PEA's that Shulgin explored turned out to be empathogens/entactogens/stimulants, not psychedelics. If you look at phenmetrazine it's a constrained version of a PEA with a n-ethyl and a beta-hydroxy, I'm sure you can make analogs of phenmetrazine that are empathogens or stimulants, but I'd be very surprised if they were psychedelics - but of cause, I could be proven completely wrong.

TBH, I'm really not the most knowledgable person on the topic.
 
A vendor has stated that they will soon stock "beta-hydroxy-2C-B (BOB)" (their words). However, BOB from PIHKAL is actually beta-methoxy-2C-B. Beta hydroxy would be BOHB. The picture they show of the molecule shows what appears to be BOHB. I am going to email them for clarification.
 
They replied already and confirmed it should be listed as BOHB. So apparently this is coming soon. I am thinking of getting some for collection and trip report purposes, however BOHD (the 2C-D analogue, whereas BOHB is the 2C-B analogue) has a single, alarming entry in PIHKAL:

(with 50 mg) At about the two hour point, there was a precipitous drop of blood pressure (from 120/72 to 84/68 ) although the pulse stayed steady at 60. This trend had been apparent in earlier trials, and was being watched carefully. No further tests are planned.
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I'm going to read through this thread but has anyone tasted BOHB?

Okay I see that roi reported on it a bit in the first post. He said it's likely the active metabolite of bk-2C-B and is similar to 2C-B, and does not display the blood pressure dropping that BOHD does. Still skeeves me out a little. But I'm interested in a longer-lasting 2C-B-style psychedelic, for sure.
 
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Xorkoth said:
They replied already and confirmed it should be listed as BOHB. So apparently this is coming soon. I am thinking of getting some for collection and trip report purposes, however BOHD (the 2C-D analogue, whereas BOHB is the 2C-B analogue) has a single, alarming entry in PIHKAL:



I'm going to read through this thread but has anyone tasted BOHB?

Okay I see that roi reported on it a bit in the first post. He said it's likely the active metabolite of bk-2C-B and is similar to 2C-B, and does not display the blood pressure dropping that BOHD does. Still skeeves me out a little. But I'm interested in a longer-lasting 2C-B-style psychedelic, for sure.
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Hey, so I believe I know which vendor you're talking about, I noticed and was interested in it too. That said I haven't read about the chem unit now, and if there are reports of such significant BP drops (and it seems without compensation of increased HR in the example which is concerning,) I would move VERY slowly titrating up, and get a BP meter if you don't have one, seriously. Unless that BP drop was some weird anomaly, or misreading, it is quite significant. 120/72 is the high end of a good BP. 90/60 is considered the low end of normal in most cases. So if someone with a lowish BP to begin with took this, it could turn into a real danger. 84/68 is just below average, but not concerning yet (higher #, the systolic is the more important than the lower #, diastolic, although there should be a significant gap between the top and bottom number, you don't want a BP of 100/94, that'd be bad. But if your normal BP is say 98/64, and your BP dropped a similar %, you'd be in danger of a hypotensive crisis, especially if your HR doesn't increase as it should (which it didn't in the report.)

This is pure speculation, as I don't know the pharmacology nearly well enough (if what I say here makes no sense please correct me.) But if it has that big of an effect dropping someone's BP, then it could be possible that it would interact with BP meds (just like a benzo + an opioid is more dangerous then just adding their effects, adding BP meds can also turn into a 1 + 1 = 5 type situation.) So someone with an above average BP, even a moderately bad BP, and they take BOHD with their BP med that could turn into a hypotensive crisis (I'm sure most people on here know this but that could lead to terrible blood perfusion, and possibly result in permanent nerve damage in extremities as your body focuses all your blood to your brain if it get's really bad, and you're HR should speed up to help compensate, and that didn't happen in the example, and many BP meds block HR increases as well, which could be quite dangerous, point is it's bad, and could potentially kill someone assuming that's an accurate and in anyway normal report.) That's a lot of speculation I just threw out from one report, but I figured I should throw it out there so people move safely with this. If you take BP meds or have BP problems (high or low, especially low), a low resting HR, I'd pass at the very least until it's figured out by others to either be a concern or not. Seriously. This is one I wouldn't use until a lot more info is out. And I have trouble turning down almost anything psychedelic at least once.

Be careful when this comes through Xorxoth! (I may being paranoid, but that's better than the alternative.)

(Also, ugh, another collectable, even if I never try it, lol. I still have 25mgs of powder LSM-775 that I don't really feel like trying, lol, that and 5-MeO-2-TMT I'm always putting off. Oh poor me, lol)
 
Well, the blood pressure drop was for BOHD, not BOHB. Obviously close, but not the same chemical. On the first post of this thread, the member "roi" reported on it and said it didn't share the BP dropping effect that BOHD has for him. That said, yes, if I get this I will be super careful, and I have a BP monitor.

Ahh, the terrible problems of psychedelic drug collectors. =D
 
Ah, stupid on my part, need to read more carefully, though I guess an easy mistake to make. Hopefully BOHB doesn't have the same problems as you said
 
Report on BOHB but mixed with a couple of other substances but it's something


And another one!



Sounds pretty cool, gonna try this out myself soon :)
 
I'm also going to try this soon, I'm excited for it. :) I'm going to a music festival on Thursday and I'm hoping it will be here by then, though there's no way of telling. Crossing my fingers. Sounds pretty lovely. :)
 
Just received my BOHB in the mail. :) I'm excited to try it, the reports so far make it sound very nice, perhaps more stimulating and empathogenic than 2C-B which sounds good to me. I'll report soon. I may send it off to get GC/MS lab tested first, not sure if anyone has done that yet.
 
Solipsis said:
Seems to me that if these psychedelics can bind so differently, some of the similarities we see may be kind of coincidental and the possibilities may be much less limited. It would be nice if there would be some computational design for an entirely new class of psychedelics.
Click to expand...

I know I'm responding to a post from 2016 here, but still, this would be amazing. The concept of computational drug design makes perfect sense to me, and we're already applying it to other medical applications, so why not psychedelics?
 
Now that research into psychedelics (and clinical trials!), for the treatment of things like addiction, PTSD, and depression, is finally being allowed again, the scientific community, or a big part of it, is embracing them as tools of amazing potential. With that study comes research and greater understanding. We may yet see that day. :)

Hey TAC! ? How you been?
 
Well, just took some of this, I'm emulating the most recent report posted here. 40mg oral, 20mg snorted. It burns, but not too bad and fades after not long. Minor irritation. Doesn't seem to bring it on quick, it's been a half hour and nothing yet. Later on I'm going to band practice and then hanging out. I'll be taking notes and hopefully write a TR. :)
 
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