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Phenethylamines The Small & Handy 4C-D / ARIADNE Thread

Here's a little report from yesterday's 75mg experience.

4C-D (75mg) + Nitrous Oxide - First Time - Mild, but sweet.

Preface: 4C-D, also named ARIADNE, is a psychedelic phenylisobutylamine and homolog of 2C-D and DOM, both of which I greatly enjoy. According to the few existing reports, it has entactogenic properties in higher doses and is devoid of any visual effects. (R)-4C-D was patented by Alexander...
bluelight.org bluelight.org
 
So I'm beginning to rethink what this material does.

A month or so ago, I took 30mg and went boating. Multiple misadventures occurred on the trip (engine trouble, debris stuck in prop, huge thunderstorm) and each time I was utterly imperturbable. I didn't feel emotionally blunted or numb in the slightest, just okay with the situation and sure that we'd work out whatever came up. No big deal.

A friend had a fair bit of nebulous, non-directed anxiety yesterday. After 30mg, they recognized that the sensation was still there, but they were no longer bothered by it. Again, imperturbable. They compared it to a low dose of diazepam.

Maybe this is why I enjoy it for social events. It knocks the edge off of any awkwardness or discomfort.
 
It's interesting how close this compound is to DOM, with just the 1 extra carbon on the amphetamine bit (alpha substitution?), and yet easily an order of magnitude less potent.
 
Just a little note: I've described what I think the most salient feature of this drug to be anxiety-suppression. Like MDMA, it can make socializing more enjoyable, because I feel more carefree. That might not be a good characterization, though. I have extremely low baseline levels of anxiety, I think, so it can be hard for me to know for sure.

Well, a friend of mine that now rates 4C-D as their favorite drug (even though it's entirely non-recreational for them) used 30mg of it the other day to deal with some severe acute anxiety. They felt much better when it kicked in, as usual, but noted that it felt subjectively weird. They said that it did not diminish their anxiety at all, but that they just didn't care about it.

I don't know how to class a drug like this. It's not really a pacific (like kava kava) or an anxiolytic (like diazepam) or a sedative. Maybe an "equanimic?"
 
en.wikipedia.org

File:Ariadne.svg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

ARIADNE
2,5-dimethoxy-4-methyl-alpha ethyl-phenethylamine

Due to increasing interest in the psychedelic community regarding ARIADNE (primarily as a non psychedelic therapeutic agent) i have decided to start this thread. Very little is known about this compound currently. I don't have a single first hand report yet, however i am going to add two 2nd hand reports as the first comment.

According to Pihkal

Dosage: as psychedelic, unknown
Duration: short
-------
Developed by Sasha Shulgin in 1969, ARIADNE is the alpha ethyl homologue of DOM and 2C-D. It could easily have been called 4C-D, but Sasha being Sasha decided to use completely unrelated nomenclature for what he called the "Classical Ladies". The Classical Ladies are a series of DOM analogues, where the DOM has been methylated at 1 of 10 places. I will start a thread to discuss them separately, however each homologue is named after a female character from antiquity.

(From wiki) King Minos put Ariadne in charge of the labyrinth where sacrifices were made as part of reparations either to Poseidon or Athena, depending on the version of the myth; later, she helped Theseus conquer the Minotaur and save the children from sacrifice. In other narrations she was the bride of Dionysus, her status as mortal or divine varying in those accounts

I'll be updating the opening post w more info as time goes on, but i highly recommend reading the wiki and pihkal articles for more info.

Interestingly, it was developed as an antidepressant by Bristol Laboratories, and everyone on the board of directors took the substance before decidong to develop it.
 
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Its embarassing but i do not have any 1st hand reports despite owning a gram of ARIADNE.

However, my friend tells me that they took it on 2 occasions. I am trying to get more detail regarding dosage and qualitative effects but this is what they tell me.

Trial 1 @ 25mg: very minimal effects, described it as tripping but not tripping. Some mescaliney feelings of goodness and serenity. No visuals

Trial 2 @ 25mg: taken 1 week after starting an SSRI regimen "tripped balls for 20 hrs" "was rough"

Wish i had more info, anyone with any first hand reports, plz comment
 
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Didgital said:
Its embarassing but i do not have any 1st hand reports despite owning a gram of ARIADNE.

However, my friend tells me that they took it on 2 occasions. I am trying to get more detail regarding dosage and qualitative effects but this is what they tell me.

Trial 1 @ 25mg: very minimal effects, described it as tripping but not tripping. Some mescaliney feelings of goodness and serenity. No visuals

Trial 2 @ 25mg: taken 1 week after starting an SSRI regimen "tripped balls for 20 hrs" "was rough"

Wish i had more info, anyone with any first hand reports, plz comment
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Wow why don't you give it to someone who will actually use it.
 
jveiojajoivioedsac said:
Wow why don't you give it to someone who will actually use it.
Click to expand...
Sometimes in life things will just have to wait. I suspect Didgital has "truly earned" that amount. Most people into a variety of RCs will never use their whole stock but just keep things at hand for the right moment.

@Didgital Keep us updated with your own experimentation. Are you also interested in different substitutions on the 4? I've attempted 4C-H a couple years ago, more than once, but something was wrong with the workup or whatever and the melting point of the hydrochloride didn't match the literature. Should really do that again, 4C-B et al seem very interesting too and are in principle more readily available than Ariadne. I've heard of a person using 4C-B for a while, leading to a very productive phase of his life but also getting a tad bit too spacy (if I understand that right, this is from memories of a conversation years ago and only a couple of sentences addressed that topic, but it made me very curious)...
 
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@JackARoe @Esperighanto Can we merge this with the existing thread? https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/the-small-handy-4c-d-ariadne-thread.872834/

4C-DOM is a partial agonist at 5-HT2a, but an extremely weak one. It does produce a head twitch response in rodents, but it's markedly attenuated. It's generally treated as a non-psychedelic drug, hence its exploration in treating depression and and cognitive decline in geriatric populations. In one of many scandals during the Bristol Labs clinical trial, one of the elderly participants received a dose of >1000mg and was fine. I've read several reports of people pushing the doses into the hundreds of milligrams and not getting anywhere. During the presentation on 4C-D by Shlomi Raz this June when his pharma startup exited stealth, he described the 4C-D as having a low ceiling for its "psychedelic" effects. Maybe that has something to do with its biased signaling? I dunno - I'm not a pharmacologist. They're hoping to start clinical trials on it soon.

I can say that for the last five years or so, I've taken it several times a month at 20-30mg. It's lovely stuff. Invaluable, really. It's a paragoreogen - it just puts me at ease when circumstances are uncomfortable. My friend calls it "medicine for introverts." Gotta go to the employee Christmas party and you don't drink? Ariadne makes it a breeze, all while not being remotely impairing. The first 20-30 minutes can feel a little jarring, because it feels like a familiar psychedelic comeup, but then nothing happens.

I'm really curious as to what happened to your friend. By the sound of it, they're the first person to actually trip from it. Or from something. For all we know, sample adulteration might be the simplest explanation. If it was 25mg of DOM, just one alpha ethyl group away, that sounds like a rough 20hr trip. But it's hard to square that with 4C-D, which I'd happily take before a job interview or a funeral service.
 
I'll poke around with that Pfffafed, I do like the idea of all relevant info in one place. Maybe this thread will get more traffic if this substance is out and about.

Thanks Didgital for the current info.
 
xdrc said:
Sometimes in life things will just have to wait. I suspect Didgital has "truly earned" that amount. Most people into a variety of RCs will never use their whole stock but just keep things at hand for the right moment.

@Didgital Keep us updated with your own experimentation. Are you also interested in different substitutions on the 4? I've attempted 4C-H a couple years ago, more than once, but something was wrong with the workup or whatever and the melting point of the hydrochloride didn't match the literature. Should really do that again, 4C-B et al seem very interesting too and are in principle more readily available than Ariadne. I've heard of a person using 4C-B for a while, leading to a very productive phase of his life but also getting a tad bit too spacy (if I understand that right, this is from memories of a conversation years ago and only a couple of sentences addressed that topic, but it made me very curious)...
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How do you earn a big pile of drugs you will never use? I have never seen this for sale and it would be nice if he could share. Is sharing bad? Or do you not need to share if you truly earned it.
 
Pfafffed said:
@JackARoe @Esperighanto Can we merge this with the existing thread? https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/the-small-handy-4c-d-ariadne-thread.872834/

4C-DOM is a partial agonist at 5-HT2a, but an extremely weak one. It does produce a head twitch response in rodents, but it's markedly attenuated. It's generally treated as a non-psychedelic drug, hence its exploration in treating depression and and cognitive decline in geriatric populations. In one of many scandals during the Bristol Labs clinical trial, one of the elderly participants received a dose of >1000mg and was fine. I've read several reports of people pushing the doses into the hundreds of milligrams and not getting anywhere. During the presentation on 4C-D by Shlomi Raz this June when his pharma startup exited stealth, he described the 4C-D as having a low ceiling for its "psychedelic" effects. Maybe that has something to do with its biased signaling? I dunno - I'm not a pharmacologist. They're hoping to start clinical trials on it soon.

I can say that for the last five years or so, I've taken it several times a month at 20-30mg. It's lovely stuff. Invaluable, really. It's a paragoreogen - it just puts me at ease when circumstances are uncomfortable. My friend calls it "medicine for introverts." Gotta go to the employee Christmas party and you don't drink? Ariadne makes it a breeze, all while not being remotely impairing. The first 20-30 minutes can feel a little jarring, because it feels like a familiar psychedelic comeup, but then nothing happens.

I'm really curious as to what happened to your friend. By the sound of it, they're the first person to actually trip from it. Or from something. For all we know, sample adulteration might be the simplest explanation. If it was 25mg of DOM, just one alpha ethyl group away, that sounds like a rough 20hr trip. But it's hard to square that with 4C-D, which I'd happily take before a job interview or a funeral service.
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So mich to respond to.

Ill start w saying i love yall <3

In one of many scandals during the Bristol Labs clinical trial,. Plz elaborate?????
 
Second that question. Can you elaborate where you read/heard that? I love reading up on the history of these compounds!
 
I hate to post things without citing sources, especially when my source (a well-connected pharma insider with a vested interest) was someone talking in a really loud room and I wasn't taking notes. But apparently the PI Bristol Labs hired for the trial, well, he lied about being a licensed physician entirely. When corporate came knocking, he climbed out a window never to be seen again.

My assumption had always been that the reason there was no follow-up with 4C-D was that the results from the trial weren't promising, an exceedingly common occurrence. But if the person I spoke to was correct, the initial data was actually very promising, but considering the shenanigans, who could trust their quality? Bristol Labs likely buried the documentation in a basement hoping that the embarrassing circumstances would never come out. The results have never been formally made public. I think my source strongly implied to another person that there would doubtless one day be "a leak" of that data, but don't hold me to that. Again, if the rest of the story is correct, then that data would be suspect.

There were lots of other neat anecdotes, but I had a raging recurrence of depression starting that day and my memory shat the bed. The two that were outlandish enough that I couldn't forget were the investigator bailing ex-fenetre and the idea of grandma getting a gram. They sound like low effort tall tales.
 
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Thank you for following up. Now that would be a great story for a book!
 
xdrc said:
4C-B et al seem very interesting too and are in principle more readily available than Ariadne
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Why would you say that? Just due to cost and availability of the precursors? The 4-methyl-2,5-DMB is definitley more expensive.
 
Didgital said:
Why would you say that? Just due to cost and availability of the precursors? The 4-methyl-2,5-DMB is definitley more expensive.
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Well if you buy the aldehyde it may be more expensive but less of a hassle! Given the effort that goes into making it (not outlandish, but still work), buying it is probably the better decision if you value your time.
 
jveiojajoivioedsac said:
How do you earn a big pile of drugs you will never use? I have never seen this for sale and it would be nice if he could share. Is sharing bad? Or do you not need to share if you truly earned it.
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Saving for future generation s it s a rare gem. For sake of humanity.
Do leave a note about the importance just in case.

This is rare RC s consist of hit or misses.
aMT/ 5-Meo-DIPT and bk-2-CB. last a wax nose
Should have it tested just to know didn t dis-colour in water.

RC a weird business. Get s in drug niches deep.
 
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