The Shulgin Support Thread (feat. the tax idea)

[RC_ethnographer]

OP 1 (by coolcucumber)

How about we let everyone who takes mdma know that its creator desperately needs their help. Spread that awareness + a simple donation page + donation subscriptions options.

EDIT: Derp, Shulgin didn't create MDMA. This whole thread was a useless idea lol

Double EDIT: Actually, if Shlugin popularized MDMA (and it could be argued to users that they wouldn't be doing it if it weren't for this man) then the main idea still can stand.

OK, so here's the new one:

Did you know that MDMA has been around since 1913? No? Well, if it weren't for Shulgin (and his popularizing it), you might have never got to experience that thing that gave you one of the most incredible experiences of your entire life!

OP 2 (including the 'tax idea')

As many of you know the Shulgins are––and consistently have been––in dire financial trouble. Alexander Shulgin requires around the clock medical care and the resources simply do not exist within his family to pay for it. Throughout the years there have been various fundraising attempts that have provided sporadic means of income, but what Shulgin really needs is money coming in consistently to pay for his monthly medical bills and to help fund the archiving and digitization of his life’s work.

Since I first became aware of the research chemical market one thought has always echoed in my mind, “If Shulgin earned even a small fraction of the proceeds from research chemicals he discovered he would be a very rich man.” In the pharmaceutical industry medicinal chemists are routinely awarded large sums for their discoveries but one of the burdens of independent research is that Shulgin has actually lost money on the vast majority of his synthetic endeavors, even if they were enormously successful chemicals such as 2C-B.

Here is my proposed solution: If all RC vendors begin to pay 10% of the sales on chemicals that are derived from Shulgin’s research back to the Shulgins he should no longer have trouble paying his medical bills. The sale of chemicals such as 5-MeO-DALT alone has probably been in the hundreds of thousands of dollars in the last decade. Vendors could put a badge on their website indicating they had paid the “Shulgin Tax” and customers could preferentially chose to use those vendors in the same fashion that people prefer fare-trade coffee even if it costs a bit more. In order to make this work it would be up to consumers like us on Bluelight to email vendors and strongly encourage them to join the program. To vendors this would only be a small garnish of their income, but for the Shulgins it would be life changing. That money could eliminate a great deal of pain and struggle from the last years of Shulgin’s life, in addition to supporting the preservation of his work.

As a final note I would like to say that this idea is totally unapproved by the Shulgins but it is technically legal, ethical, and I feel would quickly bring them the money they desperately need. I am open to suggestions and modifications of this plan and would appreciate it if a moderator would sticky the thread.

 

[Rorthron]

That's a good idea! Yet I had thought about that before:

Transformedit: copied from the other thread to keep everything neat.

Dear PD Bluelighters

Many of you are here in Bluelight (specifically PD) because the efforts of a brilliant man and his research. Sasha Shulgin. As many of you know, he in his last days suffers from dementia and he and his family are mostly bankrupt, without any retirement plan. Please see here how serious his troubles are:

http://teafaerie.org/?p=456

from the text "And make no mistake! The eyes of the future are upon us. What we do (or do not do) now shall long be remembered, just as what happened to Nicola Tesla is remembered by us today."

It's time to give back!

On the above page there are instructions on how to help. But check it also here:

http://www.shulginresearch.org/home/donate/

And here's a suggestion. Why not pay yourself a "Shulgin tax" of 10% over any RC that you buy? One buys 70 USD of RCs, donnate 7 USDs to them. Is it too much?

And hey! if you are a vendor why not share some of your wealth with the Shulgins! They invented or give clues for the invention to most substances for sale in the RC market today!

 

[RC_ethnographer]

Wow I just saw Rorthron had already proposed a very similar plan yesterday, perhaps that's a sign this is a sentiment shared by many people. It would have been ideal if such a tax would have been implemented several years ago but its better late than never. I write this assuming that many bluelighters already donate to the Shulgins but it is hard for individuals to give more than a couple hundred dollars, I think the idea of vendors giving back to the discoverer (as is the custom in the music industry and film industry and elsewhere) is the most logical and an area not typically explored for fundraising.

The next step would be designing a standardized badge and a way for vendors to demonstrate they had paid the tax. Then it would be our job to spread the word.

 

[Dagda Mochta]

it is technically legal, ethical,

Are you sure about that? Accepting funds obtained by the illegal sale and distubution of controlled substance analogs (many of which ARE controlled now)? Some of which have caused fatalities. Make no mistake, the research chemical vending business as we know it is totally illegal, and so is the money obtained through such activity.

I'm not trying to detract from the spirit of your idea, but I'm not entirely sure if it's legal or even ethical. And to be perfectly honest I'm less than confident that *most* vendors would even give a shit. Personally I think it would be a better idea that those purchasing research chemicals should impose a "shulgin tax" on themselves, and dontate a percentage of whatever they spend on substances. Just a thought.

All my love goes out to Sasha and his family.

 

[RC_ethnographer]

Accepting funds obtained by the illegal sale and distubution of controlled substance analogs (many of which ARE controlled now)? Some of which have caused fatalities. Make no mistake, the research chemical vending business as we know it is totally illegal, and so is the money obtained through such activity.

No it is not totally illegal. Many RCs are not controlled substance analogs, and as long as the chemicals are not scheduled it is legal to sell them as long as they are not packaged or advertised for human consumption. If the analogue act were followed exactly as it is written customers would be taking a much greater risk than vendors (assuming they do not work in a laboratory) but a long tradition of imposing harsh sentences on drug dealers has lead to emphasis on the vendors in past court cases. Regardless of the legality of the RC trade, I don't believe it is illegal for criminals to make charitable donations to non-profits like Erowid or directly to the Shlgins. If someone can offer real legal advice on this matter as opposed to speculation I would be very curious.

I'm not entirely sure if it's legal or even ethical.

I am sure it is ethical. When I buy a new book or music I do so knowing that a portion of the profits goes to the person that created the work, this is ethical. Not paying the person who creates something is unethical.

And to be perfectly honest I'm less than confident that *most* vendors would even give a shit.

You may be right, I hope that's not the case. Even if vendors had no ethical stake in the matter if they knew that their customers expected it of them they might do so simply for the increased revenue. Similarly no vendor wants to shell out extra money for third-part testing of their products, but the vendors that have made a point of positing analytical data have come to be the most trusted and so they recoup the costs of analysis.

Personally I think it would be a better idea that those purchasing research chemicals should impose a "shulgin tax" on themselves, and dontate a percentage of whatever they spend on substances. Just a thought.

The two are not mutually exclusive. I have personally given the Shulgins close to a thousand dollars but I feel many of the people who care most have already given all they can and so another method of fundraising should be explored.

All my love goes out to Sasha and his family.

Love is good but they need money!

 

[16ValveHate]

Oh my, thanks for the heads up.
The Tax is not a bad idea actually, very suitable for vendors as well.

 

[daytryptr]

Tax?

I'm just bumping this so people can see they need help and should donate/buy a copy of phikal/thikal.

I got a (albiet mass) email of gratitude the last time i made a donation to help cover some of their fiscal woes, and if you can spare, even a small amount, do it. Or buy a hardcopy of phikal/thikal, if you already own them buy it as a gift for a friend/family member.

Sasaha and Ann have done soo much good in their lives, mostly without intent of financial gain, and its painful to see those that give and give all their lives in such troubles.

If you really want to help get the message out there irl, print out flyers and hand them out at the appropriate venues. People who care will help, they just need to know help is needed.

"The greatest thing, you'll ever know, is just to love, and be loved in return"

- Nat King Cole

Lets all send all the love/care we can spare to these two magnificent souls who have been overflowing with unbounded love and care all their lives. Tis the least we can do.

 

[a tree]

Do you know how much money is left over for Shulgin when one of his books is sold?

 

[kidklmx]

Probably not more than $1.50.. (that's only IF he is lucky) Gotta love corporate America

 

[shakan27]

will someone post a link to where we can donate to the shulgins

 

[daytryptr]

Do you know how much money is left over for Shulgin when one of his books is sold?

Probably not more than $1.50.. (that's only IF he is lucky) Gotta love corporate America

I'd wager a fair bit.

http://transformpress.shulginresearch.org/

Being the publisher for thikal/phikal and his other works are him, ann, and their daughter from what i can gather.


You can't blame all the worlds problems, or irrationalize them away from thinking its the fucking evil corportations shitting on the little guy. Not everybody chooses to take it in the ass by publishers/copyright deals that are shit to begin with.

Think before you post, just like when you speak.

 

[kidklmx]

Then he's an exception to the rule though, when do you ever hear of an author making good money of his/her works? But agreed, should have looked it up before posting.

Can't really make out what Transform Press is though, is it a company the Shulgins set up when Sasha couldn't get PiHKAL published or something?

 

[daytryptr]

Not to get to far off topic, but from what i understand its a publishing division for the alexander shulgin research institute.

And i feel no remorse for authors/artists/musicians who let themselves get raped by marketing and publishing firms. They sign the contract of their works at the end of the day. You can't blame the system, you can only blame the complicit. Where the opportunity of extortion exists, its utilized. Its not evil, its nature. Evolution is the process of learning how to not get fucked over.

 

[kidklmx]

If only the world was so black and white... While you do make a point (certainly in the age of internet) authors/artists don't really have a choice. As an example, a lot of bands only make money on the merchandising sold on concerts. If they say no to making albums, they won't get booked. If they say no to doing concerts, they won't make money. So where do they go? Nowhere.. People only slip through this net because their work is either groundbreaking or popular, not everyone has a choice.

You CAN blame the system, because it's the system that's causing this. I highly doubt that it's intentional rather than a gradual evolution, I'm not raging against the machine so to speak. That's not to say the big publishing corporations are not trying with all their might to keep things the way they are, though it's futile (IndieGoGo/Kickstarter/Bandcamp, rise of electronic media, etc.)

Anyway this belongs somewhere else lol

Edit: My example is really bad, but I can't for the life of me come up with something better. Hopefully my point comes across either way

 

[sekio]

Why a tax that benefits only the Shulgins? are there no other psychedelic researchers that deserve fiscal support?

I'm all for supporting them, but increasing the cost of gray-market drugs doesn't seem the way to do this. I don't donate to Alan Turing's estate every time I buy a computer; why should I be donating to the Shulgins every time I get a serotonin receptor agonist? I'd rather just buy a signed copy of PiHKAL if I wanted to support them.

Regardless of the legality of the RC trade, I don't believe it is illegal for criminals to make charitable donations to non-profits like Erowid or directly to the Shlgins.

Actually, yeah, there are legal issues with donating the proceeds of crime, because among other things you get tax deductions for making charitable donations.

I think encouraging people to donate to MAPS, Erowid, the Shulgin Institute etc is a better use of everyone's time rather than trying to make Chinese vendors give up their markup. (Also, what's to stop people from saying they "pay the tax" and then pocketing the extra 10% for themselves? I'm sure similar stuff happens with "fair trade" coffee.)

 

[Captain.Heroin]

What's the point of elongating Shulgin's life if he is already old and in failing health?

It seems like you would be putting a man through more pain and suffering... and for what? Because you want more research chemicals to get high on?

Things in life happen for a reason. If he's running out of money for medical bills, then he didn't manage his money wisely enough because he is a fucking genius and could have capitalized on everything he had going for him if he had thought it out better.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[amanitadine]

^ Really? He donated his life and time to private research, research that often wouldn't get funded by public or private sources. Groundbreaking stuff, THE pioneer in phenethylamine and tryptamine SAR, opened up the door. And has shared this info with the public domain. Publishing PIHKAL was a ballsy move, one that got him raided, but inspired thousands of chemists and hundreds of thousands of end users. He Brought MDMA to the public eye, one of several potentially life saving/changing psychedelics being studied for use in various mental disorders. Profit was not the motive here.

So, he has reached the end of his usefulness to you so throw him out in the cold? Are you fucking serious? Are you against any form of social assistance? Or, improving the quality of life for someone with a terminal disease for their last few months or years? And what pain and suffering? He had a stroke and has dementia and needs round the clock care. Not like he is in a coma on life support.

You are one heartless bastard, cripes.

Shulgin tax is a bad idea, for the reasons Sekio listed. And I'm not sure how Ann and Sasha would feel about it. Most of his popular creations are scheduled now anyhow, and Nichols, Heim, etc, have taken up the reigns. Do we tax their creations too?

I'm all for helping out the shulgins, the man had a profound effect on my life almost 20 years ago, and I feel only gratitude for his influence. I donate whenever I can, and I've bought scores of people copies of PIHKAL and TIHKAL. You can donate directly to them, which is a far better approach than this ill thought out "shulgin tax". Every couple dollars help. They are in dire straits, for their selflessness contributions to society at large.

Or, as Captain Heroin says, who cares, he is old, let him die, and leave Anne out in the gutter. I'd assume you were trolling but you are fairly established here. Surprised at such a sentiment really.

 

[bunnyhentman]

Here is donation information for the Shulgins:

Please donate to Alexander Shulgin Recovery Fund. By Paypal: http://shulgin.chipin.com/help-sasha-shulgin By Credit cards: https://secure.piryx.com/donate/JqIDrmTf/help-sasha-shulgin

I admire the way Shulgin lived his life out in the open, making his knowledge available and staying above-ground despite pressure. He could have devoted his genius to any number of endeavors that would have given him financial stability, but instead he gave himself to the unpopular study of psychedelics and empathogens. I think the way he carried himself throughout his research helped to legitimize the field, keeping the door open for responsible and rational discourse which you can trace to the current advancements being made in ptsd/mdma studies and other psychedelic/therapeutic research.

It's frustrating to know that the financial profit from his work won't find its way to him when he needs it so much. However I think it must be more meaningful to receive a donation from a person who had been personally helped/healed by his knowledge than to receive royalties/dividends from the underground market. I've only had the chance to meet him and hear him speak once at a conference, but the content of the speech included his fears over bromo-dragonFLY being sold on the street and causing harm to people. I wonder if he/his family would ethically want support from the gray-to-black market. Just because he discovered a molecule doesn't mean he approves of its availability as a recreational drug.

 

[abrad84]

Shulgin tax is a bad idea, for the reasons Sekio listed. And I'm not sure how Ann and Sasha would feel about it. Most of his popular creations are scheduled now anyhow, and Nichols, Heim, etc, have taken up the reigns. Do we tax their creations too?

^This

Please donate to the Shulgins directly.

 

[rainey]

^This

Please donate to the Shulgins directly.

Might be better if every time you buy one of his beautiful creations you yourself send 10% of the cost direct.

That way you KNOW they are getting the money.

I got a very nice letter from ann recently thanking for a donation I made about a year ago and from what I gather it has indeed helped (not my personal donation I mean everyone`s)

He has 3 full time nurses looking after him round the clock.