Mental Health The Schizophrenia/Schizoaffective Disorder Mega Thread

[FnX]

My Son will be coming to visit with me for a week or so when he gets out of hospital. He committed himself as he was freaking out with his hypochondria. He's been diagnosed with Schizoaffective Disorder/Schizophrenia and Asperger's Syndrome. He is harmless/naive and has never been violent and has no criminal record. He also has OCD and ADD which makes it hard to have a conversation with him as unfortunately he has the attention span of a potato. He is a good natured kid although he's quite innocent and gullible and because of this often gets taken advantage of. I feel that I have failed him as a parent I don't really know how to help him and need some help and advice and perspective please?

Might be a good idea to start by just spending time with him, doing something that he prefers to do in an environment he prefers (i.e don't pressure him out to see the baseball game or something like that if that's not his thing). Be there for him if he accepts you and listen even when he's not speaking, what I mean by this is sometimes we pick up on things about others even when they're silent, perhaps from the way they behave. You might be positively surprised about his ability to converse if you just knew what to say exactly to initiate a conversation and how to go about it, the best way isn't necessarily talking the same way you talk usually, this is where picking up little things about others comes to play.

Also from my experience, some people with Asperger's especially love to talk by sort of lecturing as long as something sparks their interest, they might be speaking a lot about their own experiences, often rather narrow niche interests, views, opinions and such without ever really directly asking anything from the other party, who may not realize this that this actually is their way of having a conversation, they expect you to do the same without the need for directly addressing each other. I don't know if your son is like that, but these kind of people can actually be intimidated by direct questions like 'how was your day, what to do you think of subject x" etc, better let them choose the subject, listen carefully then comment, not necessarily expecting a direct reply and then just talk about something similar when it's your turn if you want to connect the best. It's like a dialogue consisting of two monologues. Feels kind of hard to explain actually and for this to even be helpful if kind of relies on him being a person of this type.

If you can provide him good time, I'm sure that would be of great help to him especially after the hospital. That way you might learn more about his life and know how to help him better too.

 

[neversickanymore]

^ Yes nicotine is supposed to help, from what i hear. ACH, the chemical found in nicotine, produces effects of increased memory, mood and motivation.

Not that you guys care but i thought i was on the border of developing schizophrenia. I would hear a voice, get paranoid and all income stimuli got scrambled. I think i've finally dismissed it as a second line of thought (the part of me that observes myself) taking over and this line of thought was psychotic and i guess this part of me was just toying with me, yes i was playing games with my own mind and i was going crazy. Every now and then (like right now) the voice takes over again, but only if i'm focusing on it - it's like as soon as i start listening to my own thoughts this part of me takes over and my primary line of thought becomes background noise[and at the same time runs rampant because i'm not trying to control it], which is hopefully what i was percieving as voices? ... I stopped most of the drugs and the second line of thought has converged back with my first line of thought. I'm trying to control my paranoia via rationality, and i'm trying not to pay attention to what i'm thinking about anymore, it really fucks me up for some reason... My brain still gets scattered every now and then, i think it's a product of some other part of my brain malfunctioning...

Anyways, i just had a brilliant idea. Say what i was developing was schizophrenia and i somehow miraculously fought it off (unheard of) through will power and healthy living, perhaps i could theorize the cause of it all. It seems to me(if that were the case) that there is a seperation between two sides of the self. The self that observes the world through thought and the self that can observe your thoughts. I feel like if i hadn't quit the drugs, it would have gotten worse. The one annoying voice was turning into multiple and i was losing the ability to ignore it. Or maybe i'm just crazy and my mind was getting the best of me. Does it sound like a viable theory to you?

I don't think you are crazy I think you are right on with your thinking and approach.. would love to here if this continues to work for you.

 

[Sun Drugs]

Schizotypy

I had made a thread here previously about possibly having some sort of autism/asperger's syndrome, but the more reading I do the more I think it is schizotypy, at least to some degree.

First of all, I know it is not the best practice to attempt to diagnose oneself, but I am looking into all possibilities. I am not very financially secure enough to seek a professional diagnosis.

Here is a quote from a source I found online:

Some individuals can exhibit symptoms that resemble schizophrenia, but are not actually afflicted with this disorder. For example, they might experience unusual sensations, such as loud thoughts in their head, a deluge of ideas, or a feeling they have developed magical powers. In addition, they might experience disturbances in their thoughts, such as an inability to concentrate or muddled speech. Furthermore, they might demonstrate aloof behaviour, in which they maintain a distance between themselves and other individuals and do not enjoy many activities. Finally, they might behave impulsively, such as disregard instructions, smash objects, or consume too much food. These manifestations are often referred to as manifestations of a latent personality construct called schizotypy (for a detailed analysis of issues that relate to schizotypy, see Lenzenweger, 2010).

This probably describes me to a T more than any other thing. In fact, it is probably why I am so drawn to drugs like methoxetamine which allow me to much more fully express myself. I find that I do learn and pick up things extremely easily, I am just able to make connections between things at ease (a very egotistical thread,I know).

I am very functional, by the way, especially now that I am seemingly closer to pinpointing what it is I have. Having bouts with derealization/depersonalization in the past because I thought I was going crazy makes more sense now. I don't hear voices inside my own head per se, but sometimes I think I'll hear voices through the door when there aren't any, or I'll hear a sound in a song and then I'll hear that sound later in the day. It is nothing sinister or troubling, but it's there, and it's manageable.

Does anyone have experience with schizotypy?


EDIT: I just saw The Schizophrenia/Schizoaffective Disorder Mega Thread. Please merge this if necessary, I am not sure if the concepts are closely related enough.

 

[infectedmushroom]

Yes I am schizoid/schizotypal. The difference between schizotypy/schizophrenia is that one is considered more benign (neurotic) than the other (psychotic.)


I believe in Laing's theory that the basis of such experience is a "split self." If you're interested, you can find his "The Divided Sef" for free, online, in pdf form through google.

 

[Sun Drugs]

Yes I am schizoid/schizotypal. The difference between schizotypy/schizophrenia is that one is considered more benign (neurotic) than the other (psychotic.)


I believe in Laing's theory that the basis of such experience is a "split self." If you're interested, you can find his "The Divided Sef" for free, online, in pdf form through google.

Thank you, I have found it and will read it. It looks like a fascinating read. How have you dealt with this? Personally, I am finding that my drug use allows me express myself so much more freely than I had been able to before. This may not be sustainable in the long run, but it is what I need right now, I think. And bringing this up with psychologists/family may make them think that this is something that should be suppressed -- that would be the worst thing for me right now.

 

[infectedmushroom]

Yes, I deal with it daily I guess.

I also feel drug use has helped me to express myself better in certain ways. The only problem is I am frequently anhedonic and "avolitionary" and as such certain subtances which I may love, like opiates or psychedelics, can induce wonderful blissful and transcendant experiences; however there is often a backlash of increased apathy afterward.

My parents are aware of my psychological dynamics, and I personally see a therapist. I tend to shy away from expressing certain "psychotic" experiences (being very paranoid is the best example,) but what pushes me to open about it is not wanting to feel like i'm entirely alone - especially with a fear that i'll develop into full blown psychosis one day, hanging over my head constantly.

On a separate note though, I don't think being schizoid/schizotypal is worse than the majority of other personality/psychological afflictions - I was thinking last night how I would much rather be like how I am than be a depressive, or psychopath, or borderline. Depression is the worst mental affliction a person can have IMO...

 

[infectedmushroom]

I am, like you, at university and struggle; however, it's normal and everyone does.

My biggest "issue" is being the weird, quiet one, who sticks to himself, and has no friends (nor desires to meet new people.)

The ability to relate to others on a practical level, for the purpose of survival - i.e. working and earning - is of course unavoidable. It is quite a narcissistic quality in a way, but I won't get into it now because I could discuss this for hours.

 

[Venrak]

I've been getting some intrusive positive symptoms the past couple days...

Mostly thoughts, but also perceptions. I dunno.

 

[Black Rabbit of Inle]

The problem with self diagnosis is that you are not trained and can 'create' associations with the symptoms. If you are truly concerned please visit a psych(iatrist/ologist) and have yourself formally diagnosed.

(I missed the fact that you already addressed the self diagnosis issue in your first post) Re-opened and merged.

Posts may seem out of order due to timestamps.

 

[infectedmushroom]

I've been getting some intrusive positive symptoms the past couple days...

Mostly thoughts, but also perceptions. I dunno.

What kind of things do you experience?

 

[Venrak]

For one, random objects take on the "feeling" of others....like I picked up a piece of weed the other day and glanced at it when i was going to break it up, but I freaked out because it was like I recognized it as a bug I was pulling apart...I almost fell back in my chair, I reacted pretty instinctively. I looked at it some more, seeing that it physically wasn't a bug, but I was like...I don't know...It fels like it had the pattern/feeling of one...

The fact that the only way to communicate with another person is to by decribing thhe physical state of things, stating that something is, or isnt, there is always emphasis of something being, whereas in my head when I think of things it's more like...I think of concepts not in words, but in shapes that are made up of the fundamental truths of the concept in question, i feeeel it in my head, and I can see how things relate to eachother almost intuitively in my mind but can never explain it properly....

I don't even know, I'm exhausted typing that.

 

[infectedmushroom]

It's like the object loses its "agreed" identity.

What came to mind was when one is half asleep and imagines oneself slipping or losing their footing and their leg kicks out instinctually. It isn't "real" but there's a physical reaction anyway.

 

[FnX]

The fact that the only way to communicate with another person is to by decribing thhe physical state of things, stating that something is, or isnt, there is always emphasis of something being, whereas in my head when I think of things it's more like...I think of concepts not in words, but in shapes that are made up of the fundamental truths of the concept in question, i feeeel it in my head, and I can see how things relate to eachother almost intuitively in my mind but can never explain it properly....

I don't even know, I'm exhausted typing that.

You know what, I think I'm exactly the same. I've chosen to describe the way I think as simply "abstract thinking". Especially when dealing with something like mathematics, it sort feels like there's a random soup of numbers up in my head, swirling around, and suddenly I just simply come up with the correct answer without being able to explain how, I just sort of feel how the numbers relate to each other. Sometimes for example when judging the behavior of other people, it often feels like I can see right through them, feel their motives exactly but still can't put a finger on it so that I could express myself verbally. Or when researching something on the internet, I just have these sudden moments of realizations that I can't put into words at all but I just know there's connection between two things, that they somehow relate to or affect each other.

You could say that it's a mess up there in my mind, but I don't think that's it. It only seems messy when you compare it to more traditional, straight-forward types of cognition. Sometimes it can be very hard to translate thoughts to words and vice versa and I end up talking something that others perceive more or less as a non-sense mixture of words. That's one of the reasons I prefer to express myself by typing, can always go back and forth exchanging the order of words and replacing wrong ones with correct ones, it's not really possible with speech.

For example the other day there was some drilling done in the neighboring apartment, and someone noted to me that the noise isn't nearly as loud as last time. I instantly knew why and tried to express it verbally right away, but what came out was just an odd mixture of words in a very unconventional order: "Well it's because the walls, not, drill, opposite, above us instead" When I meant to say that it's not so loud because they aren't drilling right above us on the opposite side of the ceiling wall like last time. I can have very complex ideas and thoughts in my head in a sort of like compressed form and to express them verbally requires effort, sometimes a lot. Problems occur when I start talking/responding too quickly and the translation isn't complete.

It works the other way too, if I'm trying to learn something new, I feel like I have to ask a bunch of very odd questions about the subject to get the complete picture of it. When trying to understand some physics related concept for example, I sort of see it in my head and intuitively feel like I understand how it works, but I have to ask questions that confirm me that the relationships between the things I see are real, usually the things I learn this way also become something more than just information stored in the memory. They become part of the way I think and see things, allowing me to see even more connections before things intuitively with better accuracy, but I might not be able to recall the information in the same word format I had to take it in. Basically this makes me good at concepts but quite poor in raw memorization of data (like maps and dates for example).

In the end, I think that it's most often impossible to describe non-verbal thought process verbally in a completely accurate way, just like if someone tried to describe you a picture in words. Even now I'm not sure if I managed to put together a reasonable description of what I intended to say. Abstract is abstract for a reason, it simply isn't concrete and there's a direct conflict with the inside mind and outside world when I try to mix them together.

 

[Venrak]

^YES

I was riveted when reading this, as i am exactly the same. I think it's why I have so much trouble having a conversation with a person one on one, and much rather use text-based communication methods...I often just throw out what's often referred to as "word salad". Most people politely ignore it, but I often get "that didn't make any sense"...

I deal with it. Personally, I'm happy i am able to think like this.

 

[Vaya]

Wow.

FnX, that was incredibly powerful to read. Thank you for sharing that with us.

In all my time spent working closely with people in psychiatric hospitals who were afflicted with Schizophrenia, I have never had someone articulately explain the exact mechanism by which their thought processes deviate from my own.

To be frank, I think that the obscurities in your thinking patterns - which form a picture that you've managed to paint in crystal-clear detail with your words - highlight the daunting versatility of the human mind. There can be no one definition of "human mind," can there?

That was a great post. I really enjoyed reading it

~ Vaya

 

[FnX]

I deal with it. Personally, I'm happy i am able to think like this.

Same here. It gets really problematic when seeking psychiatric help for problems of more societal nature though. The cognitive differences create social conflicts of various degree; some of us seem to have a much harder time integrating with the surrounding society with the most difficult cases usually getting a schizophrenia diagnosis and the milder, more socially functional types seem to get lesser diagnoses of the same spectrum such as schizotypal (personality) disorder. The underlying mechanisms aren't really understood and thus are generally viewed as something that needs to be eradicated instead of something that could be an actually useful trait, even in a societal environment but under the right circumstances of course. A really crude analogy would perhaps be a person born with three legs, instead of teaching this person how to utilize the third leg it would be considered a better idea to remove the third leg and work from there (think about lobotomy for instance and how it actually was considered a nobel worthy invention at one point of our history). After all, the people who are responsible for providing the help have only ever had two legs and have no idea what it's like to have three legs.

I saw an interesting lecture online that sort of revolves around the same subject. Not sure how I should summarize it, but basically it theorizes about a link between religion, schizotypy, OCD, certain types of epilepsy and how these traits could have been useful in an evolutionary sense, explaining why these types of genes are still around. Historically, these traits may have served important and highly valued purposes in some cases (but not always!). http://boingboing.net/2009/06/06/evolution-religion-s.html

I believe that what we're looking at here could be an extremely valuable resource for whole mankind, we just don't know how to properly utilize it in the modern western society, at least not anymore. Quite a shame actually. Neurodiversity is a concept I try to promote a lot and personally I believe it is applicable to the schizophrenia spectrum just as well as the autism spectrum. I know that there's a lot I could be giving to society around me, but I have great difficulties doing so because there just doesn't seem to be an appropriate platform to do this. So in a way, I blame the society around me for my problems. On the other hand, many have perceived me as gifted or talented in some way or another but then blamed me for wasting it all because I haven't channeled it into something that is useful for others (despite trying my best walking the 'typical' path/mold that is bestowed on most of us right since birth).

Eventually a myriad of other problems often arise from all this, such as depression and anxiety. Hell, I believe most of my paranoia actually stems from the way I have been treated by the psychiatric institution, it's crazy what kind of things these people are permitted to do to you once it has been deemed by some random doctor that you cannot think 'properly'. As a patient in a mental ward I was not allowed to question the doctors even in the slightest sense without being labeled psychotic and paranoid, no matter how badly I felt that I was being mistreated. When I said that I really, really don't want to take anti-psychotic medication because I don't feel like I need it and it feels more like poison to me (a clear metaphor), the doctor would just write down in one of his files "patient believes that the hospital staff is trying to poison him and doesn't recognize his paranoia/psychosis which is a clear sign of schizophrenia". My natural response when I heard this was anger, which yet again becomes fuel for their fire, because agitation too is a clear sign of on-going psychosis. It's crazy and after enough of this kind of stuff, it's hard not to start questioning the motives of the people trying to offer their help. What I mean by this is, when I tried to accuse any of the doctors as incompetent, I would be labeled even more crazy, a lot of things I said were misinterpreted and twisted to suit the doctors view (he's not incompetent, I'm just crazy). I'm pretty sure most psychiatrists would ultimately put their own career above any patients needs. Once you have been admitted to involuntary treatment for any reason, the only way out is to literally agree with everything that gets thrown at you. I feel like I'm rambling already, there's so much more I could say when it comes to my personal experiences with mental wards for example but I don't feel like this is the appropriate post.

To be frank, I think that the obscurities in your thinking patterns - which form a picture that you've managed to paint in crystal-clear detail with your words - highlight the daunting versatility of the human mind. There can be no one definition of "human mind," can there?

That was a great post. I really enjoyed reading it

Thank you. I have to agree that there really can't be an accurate definition of the 'human mind' at least not with our current technology (unless I guess the definition is extremely vague to the point of near uselessness). The only mind which we can truly and accurately examine is our own. This limits our perception of other minds in a rather profound way because we have to look at them from within the framework of our own thought-process.

Now I really need some sleep...

 

[Venrak]

It's cultural. What western society sees as delusional/magical thinking and psychosis, in a tribal society say in the amazon, would likely be noticed in an individual at a young age with subsequent training to the end of being a spiritual healer/leader. We have to undergo a few more paradigm shifts for that to happen, sadly.

You mention the application of this quality, and of others' perception of you squandering your gifts, and that led me to think about how I feel it is my duty to understand the reality around me as best i can, to experience the most things possible, to perceive everything from the most opposite perspectives. I feel like a sponge, frantically scrambling around soaking up all the knowledge and understanding I can before I inevitably die. Sometimes I feel this is selfish...I mean, if I don't share it in its entirety with a whole bunch of people, this is ultimately self-serving. But then I think that's where my spirituality kicks in and says "But remember, you're only conscious so the universe can experience itself subjectively and when you die you will rejoin the collective consciousness with your experiences. That is why you are alive." and it's all okay.

I'm trying to apply it properly, but I'm not sure how...

 

[mrflowers00]

yeah try having voices telling you you need to murder people then kill yourself or to steal and you feel like you have to listen to them or they just won't shut up it's things like this that makes schizo a problem not a gift

 

[Venrak]

I definitely wasn't trying to make light of what you experience, flowers. I certainly empathize, and wish you didn't have to go through this, but our disorders are very different in nature.

Much love

-Ven

 

[FnX]

yeah try having voices telling you you need to murder people then kill yourself or to steal and you feel like you have to listen to them or they just won't shut up it's things like this that makes schizo a problem not a gift

I wouldn't really call it a gift either, I'm just trying to find the positives in pretty much everything because I find that to be a good coping strategy. Feelings/thoughts of paranoid nature for example can be quite useful in the right context while at the same time being potentially very problematic in the wrong context.