The Psychedelic Being

[webbykevin]

yawn

 

[folding_space]

Just because the various mainstream religions may have at one point been the product of various psychedelic experiences, it does not follow that what they offer is the best possible interpretation of these experiences.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

The fact is

So, there are literally billions of theists in the world, yet the founders of their traditions had a completely different set views? Your theory seems more a rejection of a pharmacological method of drug action than a cogent theological system. It also denies the possibility of mystic experiences not induced by the introduction of exogenous alkaloids, which we know to exist.

I think you need to look up the definition of the word 'fact', you have confused it with 'wild conjecture'.

 

[Ismene]

The fact is, Ismene, that the God that Christ, Moses, Zeus, etc., worshiped was Psychedelics.

Are you sure soma? I know it's an old theory from years ago but do you really think psychedelics are the only thing that makes people feel religious? Even in the modern age people can feel religious and believe all kinds of bullshit without the aid of psychedelics - look at the muslims and their belief that Allah will provide them with 72 virgins in paradise. People can feel religious walking round a golf course - you don't need to trip on anything.

I think the main problem is that psychedelics are a minority taste - even today there's only going to be a small minority of people who enjoy them or get anything religious out of them. Imagine someone tripping 2000 years ago and the terror he would feel being out of control - I just don't believe it would have been popular enough to start a religion.

John Lennon once said "Anything fits man, anything fits if you're tripping off on some trip". I think you can read pretty much anything you want into the Bible from psychedelics to aliens to the da vinci code etc.

 

[eye_wide_open]

lol the true gods that created us are the aliens. Ask the Egyptians and the Sumerians and Mayans and Easter Islanders. They (aliens) work for "the creator". The egyptian book of the dead parallels the christian bible but is older. The christian bible is a sloppy rewrite of the real deal. every time you say "Amen" at the end of a christian prayer, you are nodding to the god RA. Surprise!
BTW I was telling you before the movie came out too..

Psychedallics are not gods.
tuning forks... but not gods.
since things like shrooms can be alive, it's possible they have a part of the creator in their cells.
as do we

Entities are something we will never fully understand on this level of consciousness.
You can see them without drugs too. Drugs just happen to be the easiest and quickest way requiring little discipline, next to near death type things. We can not confirm nor deny entities with any amount of proof.

I know somebody who saw somewhat the same things I did on MXE after he fell off his motorcycle and almost died. He calls it an out of body experience.
I recon that's what happened to me while overdosing MXE.

We both met "the creator", We both talked to "the aliens"... we both found the tree of life super soul cloud pace.... the list goes on.

He lives in Africa. I live in USA we both have 100% different cultures. We were both raised 100% differently.

How is this possible? You going to tell me we have the same mind that works exactly the same a world apart?

I believe we are looking at something very real here. I have lots more evidence, people can PM me if they'd like.

There is also a good reason why that when some people almost die or get too high on drugs they think they are god. I's because they probably became "one with him" while out of body.
When it happened to me I personally came back thinking I was a prophet, equal to that of Jesus Christ, but not Jesus Christ himself.

Rather creepy and happy that's over with.
don't do too many drugs trying to find all the answers.
You'll get more than what you bargained for eventually.

Above all, know that drugs are not god. Drugs are not consciousness.
I think god is consciousness, either that or subconsciousness. Or a mix of both and spirits and body.

 

[ParappaTheRapper]

I have never experienced this. Maybe on nitrous, where a huge form looking like the ghostbusters stay puft man appeared in my apartment...but im not really sure what you mean anyway. I've seen goomba-like things (super mario), and vague humanish forms made of shapes on DMT, but that's it.

 

[somaeye]

Are you sure soma? I know it's an old theory from years ago but do you really think psychedelics are the only thing that makes people feel religious? Even in the modern age people can feel religious and believe all kinds of bullshit without the aid of psychedelics - look at the muslims and their belief that Allah will provide them with 72 virgins in paradise. People can feel religious walking round a golf course - you don't need to trip on anything.

Well, if people think they feel "religious" walking around a golf course, then the word "religion" has no meaning.

If you look at the scriptures of the empty shells that were once real religions, you notice that they talk about "the Light". As Christ said, "Walk while you have the Light that the darkness may not overtake you" and "While you have the Light, believe in the Light, that you may be the children of the Light". Or, as St. John wrote, "This is what we have heard from him, and the message that we are announcing to you: God is light; there is no darkness in (Them) at all." Christ said: "the kingdom of Heaven is within". Obviously, he didn't say "the kingdom of Heaven is the golf course."

Or as Mohammed wrote: "Allah is the Light of the Heavens and the earth. The
similitude of Their Light is as a niche wherein is a Lamp.
This Lamp is in a Crystal. The Crystal is, as it were, a
shining Star. (This Lamp is) kindled from a Blessed Tree, an
olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose Oil would
almost glow forth (of Themselves) though no fire touched Them:
Light upon Light. Allah guideth unto Their Light whom They
will. And Allah speaketh in allegories, for Allah is Knower of
all things.
(This Lamp is found) in houses which Allah hath
allowed to be exalted and that Their Name shall be
remembered therein. Therein do offer praise to Them at morn
and evening...
As for those who disbelieve, their deeds are as a mirage
in a desert. The thirsty one supposeth it to be water but they
cometh unto it and findeth it naught, and findeth, in the place
thereof, Allah, Who payeth them their due; and Allah is swift
at reckoning.
Or as darkness on a vast, abysmal sea. There covereth
them a wave, above which is a wave, above which is a cloud.
Layer upon layer of darkness. When they holdeth out their
hand they scarce can see it. And those for whom Allah hath
not appointed Light, for them there is no Light."

The empty religious shells also have "communions". In the Christian tradition, the communion substance (wheat or rotted grape juice) is supposed to magically transform itself into the flesh and blood of Christ and you're supposed to see the Light and receive a Holy Spirit. If you ask them if they see an actual Light or hear a real spirit they say "no". Some of the priests may have over-indulged and "seen" the dt's - but, I, at least, wouldn't call that "Holy".

To me, a real religion not only has a belief in the Inner Light, and a Holy Spirit, and a communion substance, - but that substance actually causes you to see that Inner Light and to receive that Holy Spirit.

I think most of the people posting to this thread would likely know what the Inner Light is - although, for some reason they think that the Inner Light that the religions talk about is actually the darkness that the present day adherents see. And some of the people posting to this thread have witnessed the Holy Spirit (of the Psychedelics) also. That is what a real religion is about.

" But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation, a people set apart to bring the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into (Their) wonderful light" St. Peter, 2,9

 

[loremipsum]

lol the true gods that created us are the aliens. Ask the Egyptians and the Sumerians and Mayans and Easter Islanders. They (aliens) work for "the creator". The egyptian book of the dead parallels the christian bible but is older. The christian bible is a sloppy rewrite of the real deal. every time you say "Amen" at the end of a christian prayer, you are nodding to the god RA. Surprise!
BTW I was telling you before the movie came out too..

you sire, are watching to many conspiracy theory documentaries online

i think all that UFO/annuaki/cropcircle thing is just a psyop to keep people entertained, and some others on their paranoid streak that some superelite with reptilian genes is controlling the world. i dont buy it.

same as i dont buy any religion. all these man madeup things "feel" wrong from an intuition point of view. and towards these things that want to play on the oh-so-secret side intuition is always your best bet.

i'm rather on their side of explantation model: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQQAv5svkk
figuring the universe & time as a fractal with infinite variables giving infinite possibilities, which entropically all play out as entropy moves things along its path.

or as bill hicks ended his shows "dont be a afraid, ever, because... it's just a ride."

enjoy your ride

 

[Ismene]

Well, if people think they feel "religious" walking around a golf course, then the word "religion" has no meaning.

Most religions don't really have any meaning do they - that's why they're all 2000 years old and are just a matter or "faith" rather than meaningful evidence.

Obviously, he didn't say "the kingdom of Heaven is the golf course."

True, but he did say a lot of wierd shit about life as it was 2000 years ago - "Do not covet thy neighbours ass" etc. If he was around now are you sure he wouldn't say "Do not covet they neighbours golf cart".

If you look at the scriptures of the empty shells that were once real religions, you notice that they talk about "the Light".

True but arn't they just trying to tell people to retain their faith no matter what? It's no use going to the effort of forming a religion and then saying "If you feel a bit bad one day, stop believing in me". You have to "maintain the light", "keep the light in your heart" and all the rest of the bullshit.

To me, a real religion not only has a belief in the Inner Light, and a Holy Spirit, and a communion substance, - but that substance actually causes you to see that Inner Light and to receive that Holy Spirit.

Arn't you forgetting the one thing that all humans have in common and that all religions offer relief from? Our old mate Death? Don't all religions offer you the possibility of surviving your own death? That's pretty powerful to a primitive person. That's far more likely to be the true source of religion rather than psychedelics.

You're looking at psychedelics as a modern day person - you know you arn't "going mad" or that the devil isn't in the psychedelic. Try and put yourself in the mind of someone 2000 years ago - would they really trip like you?

 

[loremipsum]

You're looking at psychedelics as a modern day person - you know you arn't "going mad" or that the devil isn't in the psychedelic. Try and put yourself in the mind of someone 2000 years ago - would they really trip like you?

^ This!

Plus science is the exact opposite as religion or any believe because it has no ego. It's based on getting disproven, changed and evolves while religion is "something" written in stone that never is allowed to change.

Now you have 2000 year old books & stories telling you the moral outline for a nowadays society? That's complete madness to me.

 

[vegan]

salvia

talked to her

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

stuff

Dude, please, read about what happens on Earth, where people live and interact. Drugs are not the only things that inspire spiritual feelings in people, and some people don't find any spirituality in drug ingestion. Also, you may not have been aware (this is pretty important in rational thinking, I'll emphasize it for you), correlation does not imply causation.

Most religions don't really have any meaning do they - that's why they're all 2000 years old

Ages vary a hell of a lot more than that, and you know it, some of them are fairly recent, and some'em are waaaaaay older. Seems useless to mention it.

while religion is "something" written in stone that never is allowed to change.

A number of religions allow for a tradition of continuous revelation, and an evolving tradition, though how that works depends on the tradition in question. The basics are set in stone, but not everything.

Now you have 2000 year old books & stories telling you the moral outline for a nowadays society? That's complete madness to me.

Plus science is the exact opposite as religion or any believe because it has no ego.

sci·ence   [sahy-uhns]
noun
1.
a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
2.
systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
Why is it 'mad'? Even if not literal, those stories' allegorical value doesn't decrease. The issue here is your belief that what it means to be human has drastically changed in that time, or that folks not totally scientifically up-to-date are so stupid that they can't even come up with some rules on how to get along with each other. Though there is a very strong societal prejudice that what is novel is inherently better than what's old, and there's the Myth of Progress, so I can't blame you for thinking that way.

re·li·gion   [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.


I see no inherent contradiction between the two, you are comparing apples and oranges. The attitude of some religious persons towards a rejection of rationality and empirical data is not a trait endemic to religiosity. The correct set of religious beliefs (if any) should not have any irreconcilable contradiction with science-fact.

 

[eye_wide_open]

you sire, are watching to many conspiracy theory documentaries online

i think all that UFO/annuaki/cropcircle thing is just a psyop to keep people entertained, and some others on their paranoid streak that some superelite with reptilian genes is controlling the world. i dont buy it.

same as i dont buy any religion. all these man madeup things "feel" wrong from an intuition point of view. and towards these things that want to play on the oh-so-secret side intuition is always your best bet.

i'm rather on their side of explantation model: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQQAv5svkk
figuring the universe & time as a fractal with infinite variables giving infinite possibilities, which entropically all play out as entropy moves things along its path.

or as bill hicks ended his shows "dont be a afraid, ever, because... it's just a ride."

enjoy your ride

You haven't done enough of or the right combination of drugs to feel it yet.
I learned it without watching the conspiracy videos first from a near death experience on drugs.
I can't explain it to anyone who doesn't want to believe my experience.
You'll have to take it for what it's worth.

Nobody can prove anything either way. That's one thing I can agree on.
My views may change tomorrow. Who knows. I don't know everything.
Just fun to speculate.

 

[Ismene]

Ages vary a hell of a lot more than that, and you know it, some of them are fairly recent

How recent? A thousand years plus? Obviously I'm talking post-science when people could understand the world without recourse to fairytales.

Why is it 'mad'? Even if not literal, those stories' allegorical value doesn't decrease.

They don't decrease in value as long as you're looking at them as what they are - fairytales and stories. But obviously that's not how religious people view them - they view them as the word of the lord.

 

[Ismene]

Nobody can prove anything either way. That's one thing I can agree on.

I'm not so sure about that. When a hillbilly tells me he was taken aboard a UFO and subjected to an anal probe I think the burden of proof lies with him. Until he provides it, I'm not going to believe him.

 

[eye_wide_open]

I'm not so sure about that. When a hillbilly tells me he was taken aboard a UFO and subjected to an anal probe I think the burden of proof lies with him. Until he provides it, I'm not going to believe him.

while I agree with you there..

as what they are - fairytales and stories.

this is something I can say you don't positively know for sure.

IMO, most ideas and stories stem from someone or something that was at least a slight percentage of truth of the original story. specially when you come to ancient philosophy (of which I am no expert and a newb... all because of drugs... which prior to certain experiences I had no interest in any philosophy and was extremely anti-religious)

I tend to believe there is either something you are overlooking or you haven't had the experience for yourself yet. there is an experience people can "hit" that will relay you this info to see for yourself. I'm with thousands of others when I say this.

It might be closer to real death than most people realize before they feel it, I have a feeling.
quick little DMT trips won't do it. you need to break through for hours.
ayahausca,
large doses of shrooms and cactus,
overdoses on MXE or LSD or DOC...
etc etc

I don't feel like it's something you particularly want to strive for..
It can drive you mad once you feel it.

Best to focus on what your day to day life already means to you.
if you like toying with life and death, sooner or later you'll find out the hard way.
Like me.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

How recent? A thousand years plus? Obviously I'm talking post-science when people could understand the world without recourse to fairytales.

For starters, here's a few since the 19th century, and since you're on this site you should be well aware of New Age type belief sets.

They don't decrease in value as long as you're looking at them as what they are - fairytales and stories.

So if someone believed that there was once a time when chickens could talk and bake, the lesson in the Little Red Hen would become less valuable? That's a really black and white view of things, if you believe something based on errant information, all associated sets of belief are no good. Jeez, how do you reconcile this attitude with the social sciences, or day to day living?

But obviously that's not how religious people view them - they view them as the word of the lord.

No, SOME religious persons think this way (fallacy of the undistributed middle, look it up). For literal word of the Lord/revealed-by-spiritual-entity you have Islam, some Protestant Christian sects, some Jews. For Divinely inspired and inerrant we can throw in 'some Christian sects, some Jews.' (Don't want to get all technical about Eastern religions, but there is a multiplicity of viewpoints there too). Then we have groups who think the texts were merely written by dudes who were spiritually in tune with what was right (can find some from most religions who think this), or witnessed the events described and told about them (some Christians, folk traditions), or is writing something off of personal investigation/discovery like the esoteric groups.


You're needlessly absolutist, extreme, and generalizing about these things man. I wouldn't even be able to argue with you on a lot of this stuff, if you threw in the words like 'some' every now and then.

 

[webbykevin]

science is the exact opposite as religion or any believe because it has no ego.

Science has an ENORMOUS ego !!!

Everything has to be laid at the feet of science for approval, even peoples direct existential experiences are ignored because they are a non repeatable phenomena, but science itself is sailing on a bunch of pretty quirky theories when it comes to the nature of existence itself.

And I tend to agree with McKenna that the big bang is the limit case for credulity, ie..if you believe that you'll believe anything.

"The universe sprang from nothing for no reason in a single moment, that's like saying "give us one free miracle and we can lay the rest out from there." - ( McKenna 1988 ).

And what has science brought us in it's quest to straighten everything out, to conquer nature, to be the measure of all things ?
Mass starvation, Top soil depletion, rain forest destruction, weapons of mass destruction, seed patented mono-culture, oil spills, the internal combustion engine, 1 billion obese people and a global species extinction rate that is competing with an asteroid strike.

Don't even get me started on what religion has brought us but it's all bad news imo.

All this god nonsense has to stop, How does anyone know about that shit, If you are into calling either religion or science the fundamental truth of reality you are deluded, it's just someone elses idea that you bought.

An honest trip report is just as valid as any science and has a shit load more truth and honesty in it than some beady eyed preacher telling me jesus, allah, god, (insert deity here) is my supreme judge and jury.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Or as Mohammed wrote

You do realize there is historical record of Mohammed, people writing stuff about him, who knew him at the time, and that the Qu'ran and hadith have been preserved accurately over time? Read about him sometime, the dude was a sobriety addict if there ever was one on this Earth.

Mass starvation, Top soil depletion, rain forest destruction, weapons of mass destruction, seed patented mono-culture, oil spills, the internal combustion engine, 1 billion obese people and a global species extinction rate that is competing with an asteroid strike.

All we got for it was more than doubling the average human life expectancy, widespread literacy and education, and allowing billions to live comfortably. Truly science has blighted humanity.

 

[eye_wide_open]

Science has an ENORMOUS ego !!!

Everything has to be laid at the feet of science for approval, even peoples direct existential experiences are ignored because they are a non repeatable phenomena, but science itself is sailing on a bunch of pretty quirky theories when it comes to the nature of existence itself.

And I tend to agree with McKenna that the big bang is the limit case for credulity, ie..if you believe that you'll believe anything.

"The universe sprang from nothing for no reason in a single moment, that's like saying "give us one free miracle and we can lay the rest out from there." - ( McKenna 1988 ).

And what has science brought us in it's quest to straighten everything out, to conquer nature, to be the measure of all things ?
Mass starvation, Top soil depletion, rain forest destruction, weapons of mass destruction, seed patented mono-culture, oil spills, the internal combustion engine, 1 billion obese people and a global species extinction rate that is competing with an asteroid strike.

Don't even get me started on what religion has brought us but it's all bad news imo.

All this god nonsense has to stop, How does anyone know about that shit, If you are into calling either religion or science the fundamental truth of reality you are deluded, it's just someone elses idea that you bought.

An honest trip report is just as valid as any science and has a shit load more truth and honesty in it than some beady eyed preacher telling me jesus, allah, god, (insert deity here) is my supreme judge and jury.

Yeeeeeeeeeee Boiiiiiiiii!

That's them shrooms talking son the genius of the fungus! Hahahaha
"See" what I'm saying!
We "see" around the science and the lies we want some troof.
We want support of what is happening to us.
Science hasn't acknowledged this yet because they can't explain it or are afraid to tell us because they use it against us.

We ain't supposed to know! "We are just useless crazy drug addicts, how could we possibly have any clue what is going on" %)

I like to read from the ancients who seemingly had no reason to lie when they spent years carving shyt into walls and paintings that they deemed important enough to spend that time doing. I seem to learn more than what they taught me in school, or failed to teach me I should say.

thank goodness for the free internet to allow me to learn we have more options.
We'll be lucky if they don't take the internet from us like they do in other countries.We have to be aware an pay attention to our freedoms so they don't disappear.

An honest trip report is just as valid as any science and has a shit load more truth and honesty in it than some beady eyed preacher telling me jesus, allah, god, (insert deity here) is my supreme judge and jury.

What if I told you that your consciousness is a part of the creator of your soul?
And that's who you talk to on drugs.

No I can't prove it, but myself an quite a few thousand others have come to believe this.

Can you believe we have souls? If not, what powers your animated body?

why does it (your body) stop working when we die then?
why do we rot away when we stop moving and not when we are moving around?

What life force preserves your body for the 50-100 years it will be alive?

All we got for it was more than doubling the average human life expectancy, widespread literacy and education, and allowing billions to live comfortably. Truly science has blighted humanity.

They want us to live longer to enslave us and tax us..
In our country, they've actually statistically dumbed us down quite a bit so we make better slaves.
Don't worry, their cover won't last forever and will be blown eventually..
I ask you this...

why are we witnessing the world in turmoil and corruption falling apart before our eyes?
why hasn't "science" done anything to stop it?

I believe this is what the NWO is trying to accomplish behind our backs to be honest..
but according to "the aliens" they may not get the chance.. lol!


In case you guys haven't noticed, we are heading for even tougher times..
http://www.examiner.com/article/dr-doom-2013-prediction-calls-for-economic-perfect-storm

Not that that has much to do with anything..

"the aliens" told me they will wipe the earth again eventually like they did with the dinosaurs and with Noah's flood etc etc. Some of these events are recorded by other religions as well.
not just Christianity.

The christian bible says the world was so corrupt, god told noah to build an ark and load it with a pair of every animal he could so the world could be cleansed.

that is what is going to happen again.

We already loaded human DNA etc etc into space modules in orbit to continue the race in case anything happens. This I can link to if I must.

millions of gamers to virtually go to space with me. A select few will have their DNA digitized and sent. And, theoretically, if anything happens to the human race, it could be their DNA that is used to resurrect humanity."

http://kotaku.com/5030974/richard-garriott-wants-your-dna


Everyone made fun of Noah while he was building the ark but look what happened when the earth was flooded. they can prove it was flooded before too!
My old hometown has sea shells in it's highest mountains surrounding it. Imbedded into the rocks. My hometown was under water at some point.

Also here is my link to Amen = Ra.
Here you go Christians.

Amun, reconstructed Egyptian Yamānu[citation needed] (also spelled Amon, Amoun, Amen, Zeus Amun, and rarely Imen or Yamun, Greek Ἄμμων Ammon, and Ἅμμων Hammon),[citation needed] was a god in Egyptian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amun

Maybe you should ask yourself why you say Ra's name in your christian prayers to Jesus?
Do you even know who you are really praying to?
how can you pray to a god 99% of you have never met?

If you were more in touch with your own soul you'd have a much better chance of really meeting "the creator". these religions distract you from that, ask for tithes (tax) and get you worshiping gods that are just the "Creator's workers". aka "the aliens". not the real "god".
I don't like to call it god myself.
I think it's more along the lines of the creator of the birth and death of our souls.
We bring it information and we can all share it.
It's where we came from and it's where we are all going back.
And it feels AWESOME!