The philosophy of alternative health - not so healthy for humankind?

[Ransom itch]

Hello guys, it seems to me as a relative newbie to BL that contributors to this forum really do think deeply about life, meaning and purpose. My enquiring mind has led me into all sorts of realms with 25 of my 55 years spent researching the mind body spirit world of new age medicine - what positive things it has to offer but also the damage the underlying philosophy can wreak upon the human psyche. Please feel free to download my free pdf on the subject at www.mindblowingdecisions.com Your constructive feedback is most welcome.

 

[swilow]

the quirky nature of holistic ‘science’ and the historic documents that show how today’s leading therapies are rooted in the ritual and ‘magik’ as practiced by alchemists for millennia

Oh boy 8)

 

[sekio]

There's a new angle I've not seen before. So what, all medicine is hopeless?

Somehow I don't think "common sense, healthy eating, and regular exercise" will, y'know, transplant someone's kidneys and keep them working, fix a ruptured aorta, or cure tuberculosis.

 

[Ninae]

What, are you kidding?

I've never been as well as when I was living as a healthfreak and treating myself with diet, exercise, vitamin and mineral therapy, amino-acids, anti-oxidants, herbs, etc.

It beats the lobotomising psychiatric medicines they want to prescribe to EVERYONE who shows some sign of being emotionally unstable. That's the last thing you need when you come out of a drug-addiction but it seems like all they can recommend. You need to build up your health.

 

[Mysterie]

theres a healthy balance, conventional western medicine and holistic alternative medicine don't have to be at arms with eachother.

if you break a leg, go to a doctor, get it fixed. if you want to reduce your chances of contracting most illnesses and disease, use alternative medicine ideas so you don't need to see the doctor so much when you get older.

 

[sekio]

You know what the technical name is for alternative medicine proven to work? Medicine

theres a healthy balance, conventional western medicine and holistic alternative medicine don't have to be at arms with eachother.

Yup

There's absolutely no reason that good doctors won't encourage a health freak lifestyle, just like there's no guarantee that "alternative" therapies will always outperform the accepted Western standards.

 

[Ninae]

But doctors don't inform you how to use natural medicine apart from the essential basics like getting enough iron and a minimum of viamin C. I don't think that's part of their job desctiption, there has always been a lot of competition between these two outlooks. People were very sceptical to allopathic medicine at first but now it has taken over.

When I was in for consultation with one of the head psychiatric doctors, when I was in benzo withdrawals, he just said "I have absolutely nothing against alternative medicine, but you should stay away from it when you're on medication, as it can interfere with the medication" *clever smile* (like much of it can interfere with medication).

It's just financial competition, natural medicine can make you medicine-free when it's used right.

 

[noone1]

When I was in for consultation with one of the head psychiatric doctors, when I was in benzo withdrawals, he just said "I have absolutely nothing against alternative medicine, but you should stay away from it when you're on medication, as it can interfere with the medication" *clever smile* (like much of it can interfere with medication).

It's just financial competition, natural medicine can make you medicine-free when it's used right.

Uh it wasn't some sort of dig at "alternative medicine" herbs can interfere with medication you're taking, in reality everything is chemicals and natural and organic whether it's made in a laboratory or comes from the earth. Honestly I trust the stuff made in a lab more since we know exactly how much and what is in it.

Most alternative medicine relies on placebo mixed with diet and exercise. Your mental health is going to be more important in how you feel health wise than anything which is why the alt med crowd feel great to the very end when the cancer or whatever kills them.
Having a good thought out diet and exercise regime will improve your life no matter what you're into.

 

[Mysterie]

so basically western medicine good, eastern medicine bad

us whites are so much smarter than everyone else. and we worked out our scientific method in way less time than these bozos have been practicing herbalism/traditional medicine.

most SSRI are a placebo + terrible side effects. homeopathy might suggest taking magnesium which i have personally found is a lot more effective than what my dr prescribed.

 

[Ninae]

Uh it wasn't some sort of dig at "alternative medicine" herbs can interfere with medication you're taking, in reality everything is chemicals and natural and organic whether it's made in a laboratory or comes from the earth. Honestly I trust the stuff made in a lab more since we know exactly how much and what is in it.

Most alternative medicine relies on placebo mixed with diet and exercise. Your mental health is going to be more important in how you feel health wise than anything which is why the alt med crowd feel great to the very end when the cancer or whatever kills them.
Having a good thought out diet and exercise regime will improve your life no matter what you're into.

I wasn't on a medication that could be disturbed by it.

Nutritional medicine is not just placebo. Diet, exercise, nutrients, and herbs can be used to regulate the levels of different neuro-transmitters and keep them stable.

If someone avoids meat and other toxins and take care of their health they're unlikely to get cancer. Modern medicine comes in when they have failed to do that.

Anyway, no doctors will inform you of the simple fact that about 3 grams of Valerian root capsules will remove all symptomps when you're in acute benzo withdrawal.

I don't even think they've been informed, as all have been suprised when I've pointed it out to them. And this could be important information to have as it could potentially save someone's life (I know a member died from acute benzo withdrawal before Christmas).

 

[noone1]

I wasn't on a medication that could be disturbed by it.

Nutritional medicine is not just placebo. Diet, exercise, nutrients, and herbs can be used to regulate the levels of different neuro-transmitters and keep them stable.

I agree with this you can regulate your hormones with diet and exercise but there is a lot of pseudoscience and nonsense. Most of it is unproven claims and anecdotal evidence. Just because for thousands of years there's been a tradition that says herb X is good for Y doesn't make it so, it has to pass a double blind study to be proven true.

If someone avoids meat and other toxins and take care of their health they're unlikely to get cancer. Modern medicine comes in when they have failed to do that.

Everything is potentially bad for you and contains "toxins" I agree with others in this thread to combine natural medicine with modern medicine to prove their claims. A lot of alternative medicine is just wishful thinking and rhetoric "they just don't want you to do it so you'll take their pills and be a customer for life maaannn"

so basically western medicine good, eastern medicine bad

us whites are so much smarter than everyone else. and we worked out our scientific method in way less time than these bozos have been practicing herbalism/traditional medicine.

You go with what works, race, ethnicity or whatever has nothing to do with it. A muslim perfected the scientific method by the way.

most SSRI are a placebo + terrible side effects. homeopathy might suggest taking magnesium which i have personally found is a lot more effective than what my dr prescribed.

I agree SSRI's are over prescribed. Placebo is very strong it can account for 30% improvement when tested in comparison to SSRI's that's a big number that explains why alt medicine works for so many people but always fails to be proven in scientific tests.

"Just because big pharma is shit does not mean magic beans cure cancer - Ben goldacre"

 

[Ninae]

I was talking about what I've seen from personal experience. Like keeping a high-serotonin diet and taking supplements to heighten endorphin levels can make you feel noticably better. It's not pseudo-science and works very well when you stick to it.

Like St. John's Wort + 5htp can put you to sleep really well. Valerian and Hops, Magnesium, and L-theanine can calm you. High doses of anti-oxidants can increase you well-being, etc.

You just need to try these things from experience to understand because there's so much confusing information out there just learning in theory doesn't really help you understand.

And everything isn't toxic or potentially bad for you.

That's another way of saying it makes no difference either way what you ingest.

 

[noone1]

I was talking about what I've seen from personal experience. Like keeping a high-serotonin diet and taking supplements to heighten endorphin levels can make you feel noticably better. It's not pseudo-science and works very well when you stick to it.

Like St. John's Wort + 5htp can put you to sleep really well. Valerian and Hops, Magnesium, and L-theanine can calm you. High doses of anti-oxidants can increase you well-being, etc.

You just need to try these things from experience to understand because there's so much confusing information out there just learning in theory doesn't really help you understand.

Anecdotal experience is not sufficient proof that these things actually work.

And everything isn't toxic or potentially bad for you.

Yes, it is. Ingest enough of any chemical and it can have the potential to have some negative effect immediately or over time. Nothing is innocuous. Something is going to get you eventually; genetic or otherwise, you can try to stack the odds against it of course.

That's another way of saying it makes no difference either way what you ingest.

Not really only in so far that it is going to vary from person to person so much based on genetics, age, gender, etc where natural medicine needs to be overseen by people that know what they are doing with instruments and scientific method not these "wisdom of the orient" types that think smoking weed everyday and eating nothing but kale and tofu is going to make you live forever because it worked for their cousins aunt sally.

 

[Ninae]

No wonder the level of nutritional education is so low. Most will come out with confusing or conflicting messages like that. And most also seem to absorb it.

I was just trying to be clear about some things so I could at least get something accross. And that's not just "Anecdotal evidence", I tried it out based on very careful and accurate advice from professional nutritionists who heal people with nutrition for a living and have seen countless examples of it as well as scientific research. There is such a thing, and everyone who can be bothered can learn from it. And it has nothing to do with weed or mysteries from the orient.

Things are not actually in such a state that everything is as toxic as everything else so it makes no difference what you eat. Just because everywhing, even water, can be toxic in the right amounts shouldn't be taken to mean that no diet is more healthy or less toxic than another. Some diets are more nutritious than others. Some things, like commercial meat, are highly toxic and can be as bad for your health as smoking cigarettes. Other things can be more or less toxic, but few things are as toxic as that.

 

[swilow]

Anyway, no doctors will inform you of the simple fact that about 3 grams of Valerian root capsules will remove all symptomps when you're in acute benzo withdrawal.

I don't even think they've been informed, as all have been suprised when I've pointed it out to them. And this could be important information to have as it could potentially save someone's life (I know a member died from acute benzo withdrawal before Christmas).

I think your experience is hugely anomalous TBH For me, valerian root didn't touch deep benzo withdrawal except to cause indigestion. To claim that it could save a life is actually a huge and unproven claim that is actually dangerous and sorta the reason why we have people critical to alternative medicine as the OP. Sorry, valerian root is incredibly unlikely to ever save someones life and its unwise to say so.

I imagine my girflriend trying to administer valerian while I was having a seizure, completely blacked out psychotic and I shudder in distant horror

well-being

I love this nebulous non-descriptor. A product to restore, to me, a quality I can neither have accurately described to me nor recognise.

 

[noone1]

No wonder the level of nutritional education is so low. Most will come out with confusing or conflicting messages like that. And most also seem to absorb it.

Agreed except I don't know what that has to do with my comments. There is no all encompassing diet that is good for everyone was my point. Some people have gone into comas from overdoing kale or gotten kidney stones from too much spinach. Overdoing anything is bad it's just harder to do with "healthy" foods because they aren't as easy to wolf down as things such as meat and grains.

I was just trying to be clear about some things so I could at least get something accross. And that's not just "Anecdotal evidence", I tried it out based on very careful and accurate advice from professional nutritionists who heal people with nutrition for a living and have seen countless examples of it as well as scientific research. There is such a thing, and everyone who can be bothered can learn from it. And it has nothing to do with weed or mysteries from the orient.

I'd rather trust dieticians who are actually regulated but I agree with you reluctantly if we go with measurable effects not just "feeling healthier"

Things are not actually in such a state that everything is as toxic as everything else so it makes no difference what you eat. Just because everywhing, even water, can be toxic in the right amounts shouldn't be taken to mean that no diet is more healthy or less toxic than another. Some diets are more nutritious than others. Some things, like commercial meat, are highly toxic and can be as bad for your health as smoking cigarettes. Other things can be more or less toxic, but few things are as toxic as that.

Like I said it's just easier to overdo things like meat. But I'm not sure what you're getting at I basically agree with you but I also agree with the OP who states the philosophy of alternative medicine is bad for people because they have an incredibly poor understanding of how micro/macro nutrients work and what exactly is healthy for them.

If you're doing nutritional based diet and exercise you can fight against genetics and radically cure yourself from many things and live longer sure but few people have the willpower, money and time to go through with it. I don't think it has anything to do with some sort of conspiracy or fight with western medicine because it is just regular science and medicine if done properly. It's not as easy as "i'm going to take some herbs and supplements everyday and cure myself of all my problems" diet and exercise is the key to unlock it all.

There are studies that show people that rely solely on supplements and herbs but live an unhealthy lifestyle die younger than those who just live an unhealthy lifestyle, probably because they think they can take even more risks since they're supposedly being healthy.