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Harm Reduction The Pain Management Mega Thread Version 4

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Mate.I would just see a doctor. Any pain relief you get fRom intramuscular novacain will be temporary and do more harm than good. Also this xlass of drugs have a profound effect on cardiac function in large doses. Ive torn several muscles in my bodybuilding career including my rotator cuff just recently and i know it hurts but seriously this is a stupid idea. Please be careful.
 
Hi there I'm new to this thread and have a question. I've had many tooth infections in the past, and sometimes the wait to see a dentist was long. Otc painkillers and even my prescribed suboxone did nothing for the intense pain. The only relief I could get was using novacaine, the stuff they use in dentistry to numb your gumbs. I ordered pharma-grade novacaine and injected it into my gums following the same protocols dentists use (I researched it), and I have to say it was a life saver, it would deaden all pain for approx 4 hours.

Now, I've torn a muscle in my leg, and my pain relief is again inadequate....is there a safe way of injecting novacain into my muscle to stop the pain?

Bad idea. Self medicating for pain is pretty much a guaranteed way to get addicted to some sort of pain control. As smart as I know you are, you aren't a doc and you know that. So when you try to self treat yourself, and it works, you assume you have chronic pain, then your method doesn't work and then you live your life as a CPP, which sucks. Horrible downward spiral.

ANYONE know HOW TO IV Fentanyl NON-GEL patches?
I've iv'ed the gel ones a long time ago.. im pretty sure they just drew them up and they were ready to go.. but these non-gel ones.....
I put a few units of vinegar on it, then like 90 units of water... put a quarter of a patch (whole patch is 50mcg) in there.. heated for maybe a min or two.. didnt bubble cause i didn't want to melt the plastic.. only got 30 units back... shot it.. burned.. swoll a lil bit... dont even know if i felt it. help please

Why does EVERYONE seem to ask this question. If you type in fent, not even the whole word, in google. You get thousands of posts from hundreds of websites. It's absurd. I was interested when I first got patches and I just searched it...

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So, crazy thing happened to me. I went to go pick up my neuro disorder meds, and when I was at the pharmacy they asked if I wanted to pick up the roxicodone and the methadone too... I had no idea it was there. I also checked who prescribed it, it was a doctor I've never heard of, who doesn't see patients anymore! She also prescribed these meds almost the same day as my surgeon prescribed the same ones. They require a paper script so that means, this unknown doc wrote this script and then had someone hand deliver it... a month ago. It's not like it was a small amount either, it's like 400mg of methadone and 500mg of oxy... I also don't understand why it's been sitting around for a month and I had no idea. Usually they put the pills back after a week. Such a weird situation. So, suffice to say, I grabbed them. It was a bad idea cause I know have issues, but I threw my previous ones out early... oh, and I'm also an addict :(

Anyways, to get to the point, the opiates help for the pain, a lot. But they are making me feel like shit, overall. I don't understand. Not only has my tolerance not really gone down since I stopped taking them about 3 weeks ago, but now I'm getting super fucking nauseated after a small dose, and it doesn't go away. I also couldn't stop itching for hours and hours after I no longer was on the meds. I'm also totally nodding off still but I'm not high, at all. It sucks. I'm puking so much that I have to go run to the weedstore, grab some shit and come back asap. It's so odd, weed was so effective and nice, overall, that going back to opiates is awful.
 
people usually don't know how bad insomnia will really fuck up your life, the usual response is to work harder tire yourself out, wake up early, get less sleep, take diphenhydramine! but this does not work for everyone!! I just smoke weed, but that doesn't work 7 nights a week, don't have the cash to see a doc. and there are too many dr who wont write a script!!!! I have always thought life will be very shitty when I can't smoke myself to sleep "I used to do a little but that little got more and more" "I wanna new drug"!!!!! some would say get kava extract done that, others might say ask a shaman, but i have wasted so much money on entheogens that don't work, datura nothing, mrng glry, and other shit that should help me sleep. so in knowing all this, what drugs are left that would help alcohol no way!! not turning into an alcoholic!!!!!!!!! any good ideas of what drug and where to get it??????
 
Hello, I have severe pain issues, so I know I am in the right place. I have been told that I have failed back surgery syndrome, spinal stenosis, and have a St. Judes spinal cord stimulator (stupid,stupid, never should have got one). I also happen to be a pharmacist. Because I am a pharmacist, most pain clinics have treated me like a junkie. I have never failed a drug test or got in trouble with the state board of pharmacy. After my own personal experiences with the pain clinic industry, I can tell you that pain clinics produce great revenue streams for hospitals and that their goal is to make us come back and get as much money from pain clinic patients as possible.This is not the pharmacy professional speaking, this is the empty shell of a pain clinic patient speaking. I'm tired. I'm tired of begging for pain control, I'm tired of being treated like a piece of shit, I'm tired of the piss tests and having doctors talk down to me like they know what they are talking about. I haven't done anything to deserve the treatment I get from those son of a bitch pain clinic doctors. I have to stop myself from fantasizing about doing bad things that I probably should not talk about lest those fucking bastards try to get my license taken away. I'm part f the healthcare system and they treat me like shit. I can understanding why pain clinic patients get so upset and angry. Yes, one pharmacist feels your pain, and that person can't even save himself.
 
so no one really has anything to say about amytryptaline (endep) in regards to its efficacy for neurological pain? its a tricyclic antidepressant.

im thinking of trialling it before maybe giving lyrica another go on top of my narcotics.
 
I'm not sure about it's efficacy in treating neurological pain, but imo it's an excellent sedative and anti-depressant. My mum is prescribed it for severe and long-term anxiety, (our docs our extremely hesitant to prescribe benzos), and it's worked brilliantly for her; it's been instrumental in stabilizing her condition, along with psychotherapy.

Edit: I've decided not to self medicate my torn muscle with novacaine; it was a pretty dumb idea. Besides, I'm having decent results with heat rub and ibuprofen+paracetamol (a surprisingly effective combo).
 
people usually don't know how bad insomnia will really fuck up your life, the usual response is to work harder tire yourself out, wake up early, get less sleep, take diphenhydramine! but this does not work for everyone!! I just smoke weed, but that doesn't work 7 nights a week, don't have the cash to see a doc. and there are too many dr who wont write a script!!!! I have always thought life will be very shitty when I can't smoke myself to sleep "I used to do a little but that little got more and more" "I wanna new drug"!!!!! some would say get kava extract done that, others might say ask a shaman, but i have wasted so much money on entheogens that don't work, datura nothing, mrng glry, and other shit that should help me sleep. so in knowing all this, what drugs are left that would help alcohol no way!! not turning into an alcoholic!!!!!!!!! any good ideas of what drug and where to get it??????

Welcome to BL, welcome!

but just so you know you really can't really ask "what should I take" threads. This is harm reduction website, not a website to get you higher. I'm also curious as to why you posted this in the chronic pain thread.

Anyways... why in gods name would you ever try to use datura or morning glory seeds. Datura is such a powerful deliriant. It also last for days, and I've never heard of more fucked up stories than datura stories. LSA, what's in mgs, is stimulating in the way acid is stimulating, to a certain degree. What other entheogns have you tried? Mushrooms, salvia, ayahuasca? I'm just really curious as to why you'd go to the spiritual and powerful entheogens for sleep. It's not like you can take them more than a couple days, if that. Also if you have all this money for drugs, why can't you go to the doctor?

I'm also a little concerned when you scream "I wanna new drug"!!!!!!! are you sure you're trying to cure insomnia or are you just looking for a drug you think would be fun before bed? I'm not really sure why you wont continue with weed, you don't make it clear. The idea that you'd ever think about using alcohol to sleep is a terrible, terrible idea. You really need to go see a doctor and get some z drugs. Are you sure you really have insomnia though, or is it a symptom or your drug use? MGS, at night are going to keep you up. Datura, at night is going to make you trip, not really sleep.

I'm tired of begging for pain control, I'm tired of being treated like a piece of shit, I'm tired of the piss tests and having doctors talk down to me like they know what they are talking about. I haven't done anything to deserve the treatment I get from those son of a bitch pain clinic doctors. I have to stop myself from fantasizing about doing bad things that I probably should not talk about lest those fucking bastards try to get my license taken away. I'm part f the healthcare system and they treat me like shit. I can understanding why pain clinic patients get so upset and angry. Yes, one pharmacist feels your pain, and that person can't even save himself.

I know the feeling all to well. Doctors are refusing to prescribe anyone anything, and pain meds are getting less and less effective because of the tamper proof bullshit they put in there. I've been ranting in quite a few threads today about the DEA and their stupid ass crackdown on pain patients. The DEA claim's there is a new epidemic sweeping the nation, people are using opiate medications now! Ummmm, no shit. Since opium was first "discovered" I'm sure there have always been people who abuse them recreationally. The DEA is talking about pills are so bad that people will do them instead of heroin and the public begins to assume that pills are far more dangerous. The ignorance of DEA officers and concerned parents alike, is truly shocking and pathetic. So many dumb ass Americans think that the pill they are calling an epidemic is a few pills. These house wives are thinking about keeping their kids of these pills they don't even know the name too. Then these house wives will shove adderall down their kid's throats, you know cause unlike all the other kids taking stims he actuallyhas ADHD. Then will down some hydrocodone for no particular reason, like she does everyday, then she'll take some valium when the kids get home, and some ambien to go to sleep at night.

The next day she reads an article in some parenting magazine about how amphetamines. percocets, xanax, and zolpidem are being so widely abused she demands the government do something. She has no clue she's taking more or less the same stuff as the article warned her about. She'll find out that percocet is very close to heroin, but will refuse to listen to to people when they say hydrocodone is too. She'll demand that all these opiates be taken off the market until all of them can't be used recreationally. Too bad she doesn't know that some of these medicines that have recreational value, in some way, make life liveable for so many reasons. Of course she only knows what she's been told... pills are bad and it's an epidemic sweeping the nation! She demands that they become tamper proof, all scheduled medicine.

Then... she gets cancer. Her chemotherapy is making her vomit all day, but she can't smoke weed cause it's illegal. Her pain is out of control, and they give her these 'powerful' pain meds, but they barely work. She wonders why, and the doc says because they put tamper proof stuff in them. She has no idea that these meds were the ones she demanded be essentially taken off the market...

Don't let people have access to medicines that make life worth! It doesn't matter if it's perfect for a patient, if it is life changing. If enough house wives hear about kids overdosing on "pills" the government will make sure they get to decide what people can use, but cause they know it's best for you. The house wives which they still don't really know anything about these "pills" other than it's the new heroin. As she lay in her hospital her pain is so unbearable her screams drown out the comforting words of her children. The doctor offers her a pain med, telling her it is an even bigger dose of the pain med she used to take. Too bad this medicine is effectively useless now, and she dies in pain. Knowing that she went throughout life without ever taking a drug.

This shit bothers me so much. This nanny state bull. If I want my some oxycodone, cause it works, well than... who has the right to prevent me from having that. Oh, well, it's about the children, we have to keep the children safe, we can't let them touch pills. Well... FUCK THE CHILDREN. People need to man up and accept that overdose is, and always has been, a part of our culture, and it will never not be. And if your kid, OD's on pills that young, he probably was an idiot and was going die early anywaus, I done give a fuck if someone OD's, at all. You know why? Cause I od'd. I was really, really close to death. Guess what, if I died, boohoo, I deserved it. It's my own damn fault, it's called natural selection. Shit's gotten so ridiculous, they've taken codeine + promethazine off the market cause a miniscule amount of people have od'd and that's enough. I know people like tussionex, but there is nothing like the combo of sizzurp to make you feel great when you're sick.

Oh, did I mention that there are drugs far more dangerous that aren't scheduled. To most people, pain medicine is a joke and people who use them are weaklings. The majority of people are worried about the children and are super into tamper proof drugs that barely work. They also are all about monitoring every move a doctor makes, in case he's a pill dealer! So now the meds don't work unless you get huge doses, but the FDA doesn't differentiate between pills if they are the same dosage, so the doc keeps getting investigated, so now he either under-prescribes or refuses to prescribe to protect his goddamn neck.

Damn, sorry for that rant. I'm super fucked up, so I don't think I could edit it.
 
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You made some good points there; our attitudes as a society towards drugs in general are so fucking insane it's almost farcical. You've got these almost-daily hysteria pieces in the media about the latest "deadly drug" du jour, which most of the time turns out to be relatively harmless, but then you can walk into a store and buy two of the most harmful and addictive drugs known to man: tobacco and alcohol...but if you were to smoke a joint, you'd be labelled a "drug abuser". This insane belief that using a drug is immoral obviously has a knock-on effect re pain management; somebody in dire need of a powerful painkiller ie opiate drugs will almost certainly be treated with outright suspicion as a potential drug abuser, which I find fucking unacceptable. Anyways, I'll kill my off-topic rant now before I really get started. (It's a pet hate of mine).


BTW benny I got your last pm, and I don't know if you got my 2 I sent you today; the pm situation is messed up for some reason. (I can only assume it's 'net trouble or the fact I'm using a phone right now.) Sometimes it can take days for my threads to appear, so maybe I'll get your pms anytime now. I started a new thread approx 4 hours ago and it still hasn't appeared, in fact.
 
I just feel like, if I do my own research. If I feel comfortable enough in making my own choice about a pain medication, I should be allowed to. If it doesn't work for me, I don't have to find a way to get the doc to change it, and usually because of the way docs are now, they are very suspicious.

At the very least, you should have to go to a doctor, and you have to talk to him first so that you can get all the information you need, and make a decision together, but in the end, you get the final call on what med, and what dose. It would be tough to implement something like that though. You could just sell drugs in a store though, that way you'd have full control. Od's were obviously go up, but I don't crime will cause of the cheap drugs. People wont have to be on the street and all that. I think after a few years things would understand the new system, and it would become stable.

I guess we'll figure out the PM thing later.
 
thanks for the reply dopemegently.

i was given a great rundown by a dr earlier today explaining its actions on the fibres in between nodes throughout the leg as opposed to acting on the cns as narcotics do.

hes my fill in doc when my primary is away and went into depth about it rather than the opiophobes that just say 'it works a miracle, forget the narcotics!'

he explained it has efficacy in some patients adjunct to their usual regime.

hopefully some more people can chime in.

he even went as far as to pulling out charts and diagrams (;)) to help explain and show how and where it helps and takes effect unlike the jackasses who just want to push it on you because they say and know it works, no matter what.
 
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so no one really has anything to say about amytryptaline (endep) in regards to its efficacy for neurological pain? its a tricyclic antidepressant.

im thinking of trialling it before maybe giving lyrica another go on top of my narcotics.


I didn't find it to help me with my chronic pain :/
 
Tentram - its going back a fewbposts but you mentioned amyltriptaline. I have had a lot of experience with this as both a pain reliever (which I found ineffective), an antidepressant (also ineffective) and a hypnotic for insomnia. I found it does get you to sleep but its more of a kbocked unconcious feeling that a restfull sleep. Also the next day is HORRENDOUS!!! The side effects are awful....dry mouth, extreme lethargy, hung over feeling, fatigue an fellow energy also I found if you are in wds and take it to sleep it makes wd symptoms far worse th eee next day. I have experimented with doses from 25mg to 350mg as the dose varies depending on what its used for. I found it a horrible, horrible drug and with limited therapeutic value. Iı currently use 20mg of temazepam (restotil) at night which works well especially when combined with my final methadone dose of the day (60mg three times a day - morning, noon and before bed).
 
cheers.

i dont need it as a sleep aid as im already on valium and can get temazepam as needed.

thinking more n more of giving it a miss and giving the lyrica another go now after these responses and other reading ive done.
 
Tentram - sorry i didnt realise you were still posting about amyltriptaline. What dose have you been prescribed? I know the dose for neuropathic pain, depression and sleep are all different. As you know its a first generation tricyclic which hits the brains receptors in a "shotgun" effect meaning it targets the all at once unlike things such as SSRIs which are specific to one chemical. How are finding the side effects?. I couldn't handle them the side effect to benefit ratio is often just too high for many people
 
20mgs is supposed to be enough to get all the pain-killing properties out of amitriptyline. Honestly I never noticed any difference in my pain perception, but at that dose there's not really any reason not to try it. Lyrica is likely going to be much more effective.
 
nah i havent taken it before and after reading these reports it just seems like a tricyclic that will only add sedation to the mix of morphine, oxy, codiene and valium im already prescribed. and unnecessarily so. but i appreciate the feedback you and any others have to offer.
 
The sedation from even a low dose is very substantial indeed but its not a pleasant sedation. It makes you feel like shit. And at the higher dosages like those used when it is prescribesdfor ddepression (150-250mg) the sedation and hangover is unbearable. I would try Lyrica first although I personally had to stop that too because of side effects. Lol!!
 
so no one really has anything to say about amytryptaline (endep) in regards to its efficacy for neurological pain? its a tricyclic antidepressant.

im thinking of trialling it before maybe giving lyrica another go on top of my narcotics.

I skipped ami because it zombifies me. Nortryptyline has far fewer sedating properties and doesn't mess with sexual performance. Do not start at 50mg while taking other meds for pain or it will zombify you. Titrate up from 10mg and add 10mg every three days or so and back off for awhile if side effects bother you. The low dose lets your body get used to things and work off side effects. At around 50mg three weeks later I am noticing subtle pain reduction. It's not night and day but it is helping a little. I will probably have to get to 100mg for full effect, which doesn't happen right away. It works better than the useless narcotics for nerve pain. I was taking four vicodin with little effect.
 
Never tried nortryptaline but have had many of the other TCAs such as Dothiepin, amyltriptaline, impiramine, chlomipramine, doxepin and a few others I've forgotton the names of. IMHO they are all very similar. Non of quite as strong as amyltriptaline but the still have the horrendous zombiefing side-effects. My gp just insisted on giving them all atry before giving me benzos. Ironically he would prescribe me enough morphine, oxy, fentanyl and even diamorphine linctus before he would prescribe a 5mg valium!! Go figure.....so doctors are rather erratic with their prescribing to say the least. Its a crap shoot really in that it just depends who you get.

PS.......please everyone spare a thought for 'Doomed 2 Pain' tonight. She's going through a very, rough time and needs as manry well wishes a possible. Thank you all (and stick in there Julie).
 
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