the official 10-11 NBA thread ver. LIKE A BOSH

[aanallein]

oh hey - somebody who breaks a person's post up into chunks and responds sentence by sentence.

 

[psychopath]

oh hey - somebody who breaks a person's post up into chunks and responds sentence by sentence.

I do not typically do this but did so for the sake of clarity.

Oh hey - terrific rebuttal.

 

[aanallein]

Dude. I'll put this as nice as possible:

#1 - Not one of your points was an effective intellectual attack on the position I had made initially. NOT ONE. If you want me to care about what you have to say when you start an argument you need to at least address the stuff you quote with relevant factual material that undermines the points that I am making. Ex. Phil Jackson may have more rings but that doesn't mean he coached that series better. If you think that he did coach that series better, start laying down some reasons why. Literally every point (except the last about comparisons between players) is like this. Great - you hate Kobe. Irrelevant. Great - Heat was supposed to be epic - they aren't obviously and Wade/Bron are having to carry. Ergo, Irrelevant. Great - MJ played less minutes on average than LeBron did last night. Again - Irrelevant. You see where this is leading? You want me to take your arguments seriously then construct relevant arguments.

#2 - I was merely trying to play devil's advocate because the bandwagoning LeBron hating could be easily countered by the simple fact that the Mavs played an absolutely brilliant game and are without doubt the best team in the league. Not to mention the fact that I can't think of any player in the league right now who, in the place of LeBron, could have won that game. But that's enough out of me. I'll let you guys get back to your arguing for the sake of arguing. Should have known better than to post an opinion out there.. lol.

 

[axl blaze]

play nice, ya'll. I pride this forum on intelligent sports banter, so let us not devalue this place via below-the-belt semantics and ad-homs that have nothing to do with pro basketball

 

[Serious]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jc4O6F6pZg

LOL Skip


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[psychopath]

Dude. I'll put this as nice as possible:

#1 - Not one of your points was an effective intellectual attack on the position I had made initially. NOT ONE. If you want me to care about what you have to say when you start an argument you need to at least address the stuff you quote with relevant factual material that undermines the points that I am making. Ex. Phil Jackson may have more rings but that doesn't mean he coached that series better.If you think that he did coach that series better, start laying down some reasons why.You used the present plural "are" instead of the past subjunctive singular "were". Your improper use of our language led to my comment about Phil Jackson 1
Great - you hate Kobe. Irrelevant. I think (maybe incorrectly) that my opinion of Kobe is shared by others and Kobe did not hype himself up for a long time or did he literally make a show about is greatness and people still hate him. It makes sense to me people are hating on LeBron. 2
Great - Heat was supposed to be epic - they aren't obviously and Wade/Bron are having to carry. Ergo, Irrelevant Yeah, that one is probably irrelevant
Great - MJ played less minutes on average than LeBron did last night. Again - Irrelevant.You used four sentences to excuse and/or explain his 4th quarter play. LeBron (who played 46, not 47 minutes) is often said to have the potential to be the greatest. MJ, the standard of NBA greatness, played similar minutes in the aforementioned Finals. There was no talk of him choking in the 4th. Fans loved and still love MJ. The average minutes played in the 6 MVP Finals was 43.1. You think a 3 minute (6.3%) difference is enough to make that irrelevant? In all of those Finals, MJ was older than LeBron is now. Also, LeBron has had an extra two years of NBA experience over MJ at this stage in his career and still can not seal the deal. He delivered on his hype almost always (disregard baseball "career" please). LeBron has had an incredible amount of hype, by himself and by the media, and on his biggest stage, he is not performing as promised/expected. People like to ridicule people who talk smack and fail. . Several more reasons why that was relevant

Your definitive statement "LeBron can't play post and doesn't play without the ball" was refuted and that was not mentioned.

#2 - I was merely trying to play devil's advocate because the bandwagoning LeBron hating could be easily countered by the simple fact that the Mavs played an absolutely brilliant game and are without doubt the best team in the league. Not to mention the fact that I can't think of any player in the league right now who, in the place of LeBron, could have won that game. But that's enough out of me. I'll let you guys get back to your arguing for the sake of arguing. Should have known better than to post an opinion out there.. lol.

The entire post was relevant in that it showed the "bandwagoning Lebron hating" was justified.
You said "I know he (LeBron) brought most of it down upon himself but the game should speak for itself". He did bring it on himself and the games have spoken for themselves.

 

[aanallein]

Gj dissecting my post again.. but this time doing an even worse job of it.

My point throughout all of this hasn't been that LeBron fucked up and lost that game or didn't live up to his hype or isn't as good as ______ or the best man in basketball.. It's none of those things. He didn't win it obviously and he got 2 points in the 4th. My point, which you keep ignoring and attacking the smaller issues (which I'm saying are contributing factors) is simply that Dallas is outplaying Lebron. It's a 5 on 5 game and LeBron is 1 guy.

He didn't carry and his team lost. People are throwing him under the bus 100% and flat out ignoring or failing to recognize how well Dallas is playing. They are dismantling the Heat, forcing them out of rhythm, and playing superb on both ends of the floor. And in the face of all of that they were trailing much of the game and won with a couple clutch 3's on home court.


I can completely understand the arguments you are making (and the entire world), I'm just trying to be a voice of reason.

Both teams have won all of their home games, its a 3-2 series, and the playoffs have been spectacular. LeBron played incredibly well in the playoffs up until the last 2 games and last night I'd say he only played poorly in the 4th Quarter and played relatively decently (for him) the first 3.. /shrug. You seem to be completely emotionally worked up about this and obviously it's not limited to LeBron (spitting on Kobe? lol)..


(and yet after realizing most of your post was irrelevant, you still try to claim it is.. erg.. wth.. your points are just missing the mark completely and going into complete tangent land repeatedly and using circular logic.. are you high right now?)

 

[psychopath]

I have been rooting for the Mavs and have been a long time hater of LeBron. I jumped down your throat pretty hard. My apologies.

My post was an enormous extrapolation of the last paragraph in my previous post. I create and/or edit the majority of forms, contracts, documents, etc. at the law farm I work for because the two senior partners like how I am "persnickety". Again, sorry. My trait can be beneficial and apparently harmful.

Reason has no place here lol..

 

[aanallein]

Please explain to me how showing the stats of MJ's minutes played in the Finals should in any way undermine my simple statement that LeBron would be exhausted after 47 minutes (46 apparently) in this game? Did I ever compare him to MJ? Nope. Has he been? Yes. Does that have to do with my argument in anyway shape or form? No.

Similarly with your "countering" my argument about his flaws. They exist and he didn't undo them in the game, they were taken advantage of. That is why they are flaws! You don't simply fix your flaws in your game overnight or you don't call them flaws. They are part of who he is as a player. If you look back at his career and find that he doesn't fix his flaws and continues to face similar Playoff/Final pushes that result in losses due to those flaws, then you have an argument against him as an all time great. But again, I'm not talking about all time greatness and I think you think that I am. I'm just talking about his play in this particular game and saying it wasn't necessarily as much his own fault as it is Dallas playing amazing basketball


Just saw your next post. Apology accepted. Sorry for jumping down your throat at about the dissection of my post. I've seen that done so much in CE/P I can't stand it anymore. My bad. (I still think Phil Jackson was out coached btw but so has everybody so far, Carlisle is doing amazing things).

 

[Serious]

(I still think Phil Jackson was out coached btw but so has everybody so far, Carlisle is doing amazing things).

I've been saying this man!

Everyone thinks Phil is perfect and can do no wrong but the truth is that he hasn't really been coaching since Shaq left. He was outcoached by a rookie coach in Monty Williams, too. Dude has failed to make any adjustments in both series. Actually, he hasn't made any since 2004. Lol.

Just like Kobe on defense, Phil has been living off his coaching reputation for a while now.

Lol people act like there's gonna be a drop off in coaching now. I personally can't wait for the Mike Brown era. At least now we'll have legit defensive schemes against teams and everyone will be held accountable on D.

No more rewarding Fisher for nothing. No more playing Luke Walton for no reason. No more sitting down rookies even though they proved they can ball (Ebanks).What do you call someone that sees the same mistake 10 times in a row and sticks with the same lineup? What about using the SAME exact plays he used vs NOLA at the end of games that he used vs the Mavs? Did Phil really think teams are that stupid?

Couldn't even defend a simple PnR. Why didn't he have them go under the screen w/ Barea? He's not a great shooter. Why didn't they rotate once he got into the lane? Why did he have them double on mediocre bigs, while leaving dead eye shooters wide open? Why did he make sure they doubled Dirk prematurely? He always made the right play. I'd rather have Dirk go off and shut down everyone else.

 

[aanallein]

Totally agree. I can't wait to see what the Mavs do in the next game. They have so much depth it's just awesome to watch.

 

[KamMoye]

heat in 7

 

[Serious]

lol sup Kam.

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

lol sup Kam.

Nooooooooooo.


But seriously, Serious, get your avatar ready. It looks like I'm about to endure an offseason of depression, unless my football teams pick it up this season (doubtful), and I technically do not even have to use that shit since I clearly stipulated that you need to come up with you avatar before the Finals. But I'll roll with it anyways. Just make it a nice JPG, not GIF's, I cannot figure out how to put those in my avatar.

Anyways, I've been disappearing and wallowing in my own self-pity these past couple games, but I still have hope that my Heat can pull this off. I think the series goes to at least 7 games. Never underestimate how much better Bosh plays at home. James will continue his game (all good up to the 4th, where he is still a damn good assist man, nothing wrong with being Magic) and Wade will still be Wade. Bosh is the only guy that really seems to feel home-court, and he is a huge swing guy for us.

As for alternative off-season scenarios, I know how crazy this sounds, and I realize it is unlikely, but some crazy motherfucker brought up the idea that if the Heat lose, they might dump Bosh and a few other pieces for Mr. Dwight Howard. I really think Chicago has the edge, with a Noah and Boozer trade, but you never know what Orlando (and Howard) might think. I imagine it will go down very similar to the Carmelo situation, Orlando is not leaving empty handed, and I think Bosh is a pretty good deal for a team like Orlando. Howard is better, but he will never win a title there. It all depends on what teams are willing to offer, and how stubborn Orlando and Howard are.

 

[Serious]

Hah why before the Finals? Avy bets are usually done after it is all over.

Well here is mine if the title stays in the West.

Now post yours?

 

[34-dihydroxyphen]

Hah why before the Finals? Avy bets are usually done after it is all over.

Well here is mine if the title stays in the West.

Now post yours?

A few posts back I already stated it was my current avatar. I see you don't have one, so I wanted it to be in the proper size and shit already, so it wouldn't be a burden to put it on.

But thanks for not being a dick about your avatar choice. I chose my team, and you chose yours. If my team loses, I will wear that avatar for 30 days without feeling pissed off every time I log on to Bluelight. Good thing I didn't make that bet with Codones. I would be disappeared for 30 days.

 

[grimble crumble]

I cant believe anyone can defend lebron at this point. yes he gets hard critisism, but c'mon this is the same guy that has taken it upon himself to take MJ's number, to have "chosen one" tated on his back. to be the only player in histoy to hold a nationally televised 30 minute program to annouce his next team and later to say it would be "easy" to win 7 rings

but yet here he is still ringless after almost 8 years, playing like dog shit in the nba finals. the dude has 11 points through 5 fourth quarters. 17 ppg.

he came off that horrible 8 point game with another shitty game. yes it was a tripple double but listen 9 of those rebounds were defensive (big whoop) and only 2 of those points were in the fourth. a game like that has almost ZERO impact on the out come to what a player of lebrons hype should have done. peroid dot end of story.

the comparisons to mj and kobe are laughable, and wade is showing us LBJ is not even on his level.

i will tell you this. he puts up good numbers but its not because hes a great basketball player, its because hes a great athlete and it shows in the end of games on the big stage. he would be on the fast track to becoming the next barkely if it wasnt for wade

 

[Serious]

he puts up good numbers but its not because hes a great basketball player

Lol c'mon dude...



I am done defending him though. He is playing with no fire/passion and it shows. When he's not being doubled, he doesn't even want to take Shawn fucking Marion off the dribble. Or a 38 yr old Jason Kidd. That's not the LeBron I know.

I agree that it was one of the most meaningless triple doubles ever. Dude shot 42% and most of his points were in transition. That was like a Lamar Odom triple double, pretty weak. I expected something like 32/14/12 after his terrible game 3 and 4.

Dallas is playing great D but the Bulls were #1 ranked defense and he didn't have a problem lighting them up. I think it's all in his head.

 

[grimble crumble]

its not. you said it yourself he relies on his athletic ability more than the fundementals

im not saying hes not better the almost anyone who picks up a ball. what im saying is that being, great, on that legend level, is something he doesnt have right now. because when it comes down to it hes just a freakeshly strong and fast athlete posing as a legendary bball player.

where would he stand if he retired today

 

[Serious]

Well his incredible athletic ability is what makes him a great player. He has improved his jump shot a ton though, that was one of his biggest weaknesses. But I get what you're saying, I agree.


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lol