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the official 08 NBA playoffs thread

Ryan... you're a good guy in my book, but spare those who have been plenty involved in the Kobe/LeBron conversation from having you tell us your opinion is based more off fact than others...that's just some weak ass shit brotha. ;)

Lebron is every bit as good as Kobe? Based on what? Your belief his skills equals Kobe's skills? Are you telling me him scoring 10,000 points quicker than Kobe makes him as good as Kobe? or that by lining up career stats (for the regular season mind you) that Lebron is already as good as Kobe, if not better?

Nevermind the fact Kobe had to earn his minutes early in his career because he was on the Lakers, whereas all Lebron had to do was sneeze and he'd start getting the minutes in Cleveland...so maybe that had a little to do with that...

And then, you have the gall to say "it could be argued Lebron is the better all-around player."

Based on what? the stats you provided?

Let's look at what Kobe is better at than Lebron shall we?

Superior perimeter game
Superior 3-pt. shot
Superior clutch factor
Superior defensive skills
Superior free throw shooter
Superior ring holder
Superior MVP holder
Superior playoff stats

And to be fair...what is Lebron better at than Kobe?

Superior athletic build
Superior passing
Superior dribble drive

Frankly...I feel like I'm being generous about the last two Lebron advantages since Kobe is showing how great his passing skills can be in the playoffs and his ability to take it to the basket isn't really that much weaker than Lebron. The only difference is Lebron's size and body which makes it easier for him to absorb contact.

But really Ryan...how is Lebron the "better all-around player"? How can you even say that when Kobe is clearly the better defender, as symbolized by being on the NBA All-Defensive 1st team 6 times in his career and the 2nd team twice. Lebron? Zero. Nothing. Nada. This speaks of what Lebron has to work on...

And again, I have to bring up to Lebron lovers...something no one can ever retort...Lebron himself says Kobe is the best in the game. THAT is fact.

Lebron is a great player, and may become one of the most skilled players ever to play the game, but that actually has to happen first before he can be considered as such. The potential is clearly there...what he needs are results.

Kobe has the results.
 
I'm not going to get into this Kobe VS LBJ stuff for once... only because I am thinking about Boston and only Boston, at the moment.

I hope to see Kobe in the Finals, and have this discussion continued (although I think that the Lakers are overall a far better team and are the team to beat at the moment, if Jason Vorhees -- err, I mean the San Antonio Spurs who keep coming back and keep coming back don't pull off some miracle in NO and then LA).
 
LapDawg said:
Ryan... you're a good guy in my book, but spare those who have been plenty involved in the Kobe/LeBron conversation from having you tell us your opinion is based more off fact than others...that's just some weak ass shit brotha. ;)

Lebron is every bit as good as Kobe? Based on what? Your belief his skills equals Kobe's skills? Are you telling me him scoring 10,000 points quicker than Kobe makes him as good as Kobe? or that by lining up career stats (for the regular season mind you) that Lebron is already as good as Kobe, if not better?

Nevermind the fact Kobe had to earn his minutes early in his career because he was on the Lakers, whereas all Lebron had to do was sneeze and he'd start getting the minutes in Cleveland...so maybe that had a little to do with that...

And then, you have the gall to say "it could be argued Lebron is the better all-around player."

Based on what? the stats you provided?

Let's look at what Kobe is better at than Lebron shall we?

Superior perimeter game
Superior 3-pt. shot
Superior clutch factor
Superior defensive skills
Superior free throw shooter
Superior ring holder
Superior MVP holder
Superior playoff stats

And to be fair...what is Lebron better at than Kobe?

Superior athletic build
Superior passing
Superior dribble drive

Frankly...I feel like I'm being generous about the last two Lebron advantages since Kobe is showing how great his passing skills can be in the playoffs and his ability to take it to the basket isn't really that much weaker than Lebron. The only difference is Lebron's size and body which makes it easier for him to absorb contact.

But really Ryan...how is Lebron the "better all-around player"? How can you even say that when Kobe is clearly the better defender, as symbolized by being on the NBA All-Defensive 1st team 6 times in his career and the 2nd team twice. Lebron? Zero. Nothing. Nada. This speaks of what Lebron has to work on...

And again, I have to bring up to Lebron lovers...something no one can ever retort...Lebron himself says Kobe is the best in the game. THAT is fact.

Lebron is a great player, and may become one of the most skilled players ever to play the game, but that actually has to happen first before he can be considered as such. The potential is clearly there...what he needs are results.

Kobe has the results.
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:D served.

i know youre far more knowledgeable about basketball than i am, but its the attitude that kobe fans have that make it seem as though lebron is a drop in the bucket. lebron is obviously far better than some people like to pretend.

i've read the article where lebron admitted that kobe is a better player. and i never said i believe that he isnt. i said it could be argued based on stats. im a lebron fan no doubt, but i've always said that kobe is better if for nothing else, the fact that if the game was on the line and i had a choice between lebron and kobe... i'd take kobe. but some people dont understand that lebron is a fuckin baller. they just praise kobe 9 times out of ten and bash lebron with the 1 thats left. why cant they admit that lebron is a quality player?
 
I will just say THIS.

Michael Jordan's first couple years in the playoffs, without a stellar cast behind him, had something like a 3-9 record. THAT all changed when he got Pippen et al.

Kobe Bryant can NOT win a Championship without another stud behind him. see: Shaq, and for this year Pau Pau Gasol.

LBJ at least made it to the Finals, albeit in a horribly weak year for the East and following that he got swept by the Spurs. but he made it in the Finals.

look at the Cavs. he has turned a loveable bunch of losers into a rather loveable bunch of extremely hardworking men all under the King of the Court.

plus, LBJ is far better of an actor than Kobe. and he looks better. and he could kick his ass.

in fact, I'll bet LBJ's dad could kick Kobe's dad's ass.

now excuse me while I put on his sneakers, wear the retro 23 Cavs jersey, drink his vitamin water, and even put a piece of LeBron's lightining lemonade flavor bubble gum in my grill.
 
LapDawg said:
Lebron is a great player, and may become one of the most skilled players ever to play the game, but that actually has to happen first before he can be considered as such. The potential is clearly there...what he needs are results.

Kobe has the results.
Click to expand...
probably the best post i read in this forum on kobe/lebron.

i don't give credit to him just for surviving his battles... get a ring/mvp then we can talk.
 
hahaha, Kobe JUST got the MVP out of HOW MANY years and now look at the swagger in IcebergSlim's post.
 
Have mid-range jumpers gone out of style?
Watching the BOS vs CLE series is difficult.
If I try hard, I can appreciate sound defense but
this is ridiculous. Offense puts butts in the seats.
I HAD high hopes for this series. Kinda meh for a
series that went 7. Ray Allen disappeared and both
teams are struggling to hit the 90 point mark.
On the upside, it's almost halftime.
 
Damn without question the Celtics won for two reasons:

Lebron has no help from his teamates, and the Celtics have the refs help big time.

Not calling an intentional foul which would've helped the Cavs really hurt.

Oh well, the Celtics got no shot of going all the way. It's obvious they are getting lucky. If the King had just one more playmaker on his team, the would've swept the Celtics. Guranteed.

All the teams left suck. No more NBA watching for me.
 
smotpoker said:
Damn without question the Celtics won for two reasons:

Lebron has no help from his teamates, and the Celtics have the refs help big time.

Not calling an intentional foul which would've helped the Cavs really hurt.

Oh well, the Celtics got no shot of going all the way. It's obvious they are getting lucky. If the King had just one more playmaker on his team, the would've swept the Celtics. Guranteed.

All the teams left suck. No more NBA watching for me.
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You're a fucking moron. Stop being so biased when making a post, or don't post at all.

Did you not see the flagrant Garnett got hit with in the 2nd, that was just called as a personal foul and not a flagrant?

Since you're a Reds fan, I can tell you're used to being a fan of a loser. Get used to it. As long as the Celtics and Pistons are in the east, the Cavs will stand no chance. Bron-Bron might as well pack it up, request a trade, and get dealt to a real team.
 
axl blaze said:
I will just say THIS.

Michael Jordan's first couple years in the playoffs, without a stellar cast behind him, had something like a 3-9 record. THAT all changed when he got Pippen et al.

Kobe Bryant can NOT win a Championship without another stud behind him. see: Shaq, and for this year Pau Pau Gasol.
Click to expand...

And at this point, Lebron can't either, even though he had a good chance to do so when the conference was arguably at its weakest level since the New Jersey Nets were representing the East in the Finals...

A year later, the Cavs are well over the luxury tax with a bunch of overpaid players who have to win now or it may mean the demise of the franchise. Unfortunately for them, they simply aren't a championship-caliber team.

Sorry Axl...but if Lebron does win rings, it won't be in Cleveland.
 
THIS SERIES WAS NOT A TESTAMENT TO... Lebron being close to winning it all with the Cavs.

THIS SERIES *WAS* A TESTAMENT TO.... Lebron realizing if he wants to win it all, he must leave Cleveland.

I love it. Boston bounces the Indians in the ALCS last year, and the Cavs in the Semi's this year. Too bad the Brownies are still a CFL team!
 
LapDawg said:
And at this point, Lebron can't either, even though he had a good chance to do so when the conference was arguably at its weakest level since the New Jersey Nets were representing the East in the Finals...

A year later, the Cavs are well over the luxury tax with a bunch of overpaid players who have to win now or it may mean the demise of the franchise. Unfortunately for them, they simply aren't a championship-caliber team.

Sorry Axl...but if Lebron does win rings, it won't be in Cleveland.
Click to expand...

I don't understand your first point, LeBron did win the Eastern Conference last year? no doubt when it was its worst, for what it's worth.

I think that LeBron will win rings in Cleveland, but that's just me. all we need is one more above average player. the Celtics have the history, so they got players to flock to their team for a championship (something I hate in pro sports, ex: Yankees), but at least the Cavs have LeBron and he is such a commodity it might be easy to hire somebody in the offseason or during the next season right before the trade deadline.

and if he does win a ring elsewhere in Cleveland, no skin on my back. right now I am more of a LBJ fan than a Cavs fan.

TopRocka said:
Since you're a Reds fan, I can tell you're used to being a fan of a loser. Get used to it. As long as the Celtics and Pistons are in the east, the Cavs will stand no chance. Bron-Bron might as well pack it up, request a trade, and get dealt to a real team.
Click to expand...

the Reds do suck, but look at you. I guess once the Celtics reach the Eastern Conference Finals for once in how many years it finally gave you a set of balls the size of basketballs. and the Pistons? please, Cleveland dealt the Pistons last year -- and that was without Delonte West and Ben Wallace.

now since I have cleared you two up, my thoughts for the game:

how much can one man do? LBJ was very Jordanesque in his last playoff performance of the year - realizing early on that his Cavs were shooting cold and that he was going to have to put the team on his back to win. and that he did, but it wasn't enough. and you can thank Paul Pierce for that as Ray Allen failed to show up again tonight and Kevin Garnett was more or less slowed-but-not-stopped by Ben Wallace.

the Cavs played without three point star Boobie Gibson, and as a result failed to drain a trey the first half.

if Boobie was playing, I believe the Cavs would have won. again, Cleveland is at its best when the non-LeBron shoot the threes while the King just drives.

anyways, what the fuck is Wally Szcerbiak doing on the roster? he gets paid a couple pretty million dollars to get in off the bench for six minutes, get in, effectively miss about 4 three point shots, and then get benched for the rest of the game. carrying the ball he is an offensive liability and he is no stud on defense.

I say GTFO.

LeBron may be playing for the Brooklyn Nets if he can't snag a title soon (which I think he will in the very near future) but for now he plays for Cleveland. and while he is there that team is one above-average player away from instead of playing Detroit and Boston till 7, but playing Detroit and Boston to 6, 5, or 4 games.
 
Are the standards so low for you that an Eastern Conference championship is actually meaningful and shows Lebron in such a good light compared to MJ and Kobe? You're kidding me right?

Shit man...let's proclaim Jason Kidd, Dirk Nowitzki and Allen Iverson champions too then...'cause they won their Conference in the past...and did better than Lebron's team in the NBA finals...

Sorry dude...doesn't work that way. Winning the conference means nothing if you don't win the whole thing, especially when no one respects said conference. Do Super Bowl runner-ups get credited for being champions too? How about every loser in every championship game? Do those players and teams get credit for being champions even though they didn't actually win it all?

I know you're hurting Axl...but don't let it make you post sad homerish posts like that. ;)
 
I was just confused because it appeared as if you said that he didn't win the Eastern Conference last year, while I thought that you knew for sure that he had won it. I wasn't commending him for winning last year's shit for a conference, although it was bad ass to see him come back against Detroit.
 
TopRocka said:
THIS SERIES WAS NOT A TESTAMENT TO... Lebron being close to winning it all with the Cavs.

THIS SERIES *WAS* A TESTAMENT TO.... Lebron realizing if he wants to win it all, he must leave Cleveland.

I love it. Boston bounces the Indians in the ALCS last year, and the Cavs in the Semi's this year. Too bad the Brownies are still a CFL team!
Click to expand...

gotta suck on your celtics' nuts since your bosox cant even take the division lead away from the rays. :D

the fucking rays man!!!
 
That'd be nice, it would free up plenty of SportsCenter airtime for more
women's college volleyball.

Watching the post-game conference on NBAtv, I gotta say that Lebron
interviews very well. Keeps his ebonic count low, commends both his
teammates AND competion genuinely, low use of canned responses.
He kinda won me over. I'm somewhat sad I won't be seeing my Lakeshow
go against Bronathan in the finals.
 
IcebergSlim said:
the only way lebron will win a championship is 2 *singin* "leave...them (cavs) alone...pack his bags...and get the hell on...." :p

itsawrap.gif


and im not giving em any credit for doing the same shit the fucking ATLANTA HAWKS DID. raise your standards.

im riding for NO tonight. CP3 > LJ this season, real talk.
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the exact same thing the Atlanta Hawks did? check your knowledge man, the Hawks got blown out in Game 7 at Boston.

LBJ does interview very well, he is a genuine nice guy where he could have the massive ego that haunts most straight from high school to NBA recruits. he won me over when I was playing college football at a small school in Ohio where the Cavs practiced for an off-season. coming from Ohio and playing high school sports, and him being about the same age of me, of course I knew about him (he dominated the very strong Ohio HS sports newsreel). when I shook his hand he was everything you could ever wish for, once again planting the seeds for my LBJ man-crush.

my favorite story about him was when he was in HS, Nike was trying to sign him to a contract. they wanted to put a HUGE billboard that would dominate the Akron skyline. well, he only agreed to be signed if they bought his momma a hummer.

I find that hilarious, but I don't find it funny that the playoffs will be going on without LBJ this year. the ratings agree with me as well. the last thing the NBA wants is a Detroit VS San Antonio Finals.

anyways, as a fan of the NBA overall this is the BEST year for the playoffs I have seen since maybe I was a little kid watching the Jordan years.

as a fan I think this may be one of the best years ever for the playoffs. does anybody else agree on the state of things overall?
 
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