RCs The Methiopropamine N-methyl-1-(thiophen-2-yl)propan-2-amine (MPA) Megathread V2

[Samuelg]

I've done amphetamine, MDPV, alpha-PVP, caffeine (high doses), 2C-E, 2C-D (it, 2C-E, and amphetamine were the best stimulants on the list, and it and amphetamine were the best), 2C-I, 2C-P, 2C-T-2, 2C-C-NBOME, 2C-I-NBOME, and 5-MEO-MIPT. I've consumed about a gram of 2C-E and 400 mg or so of 2C-P, 2C-I, 2C-T-2, AND 2C-D. I've consumed over 100 mg of 25C-NBOME and about half as much 25I! (Not all at once of course, I mean in my whole life) All of those stimulants that were also psychedelics were oftentimes taken as a stimulant rather than a psychedelic (not recommended, felt really good, but it can cause heart valve damage via 5HT-2B agonism and I can ACTUALLY feel my heart beating in my chest especially if I lay on my left side, before phenethylamine and pyrovalerone use this was not noticed, for whatever reason (placebo effect is entirely possible)). I've probably done more stimulants than a lot of people in this thread, and I certainly do like the feeling of stimulants. I do have interest in stimulants, there just doesn't appear to be any good ones on the research chemical market, besides amphetamine analogs. Just because I don't do shit stims like MPA doesn't mean my comments are backhanded or condescending. Your post sounds condescending to me, in fact. That's why I go on places like Bluelight, Pihkal, Tihkal, Erowid, so I can know if a chemical is shit before I acquire it. Not the best choice however, because you have to study Bluelight hard to get the proper warnings, and Erowid or Pihkal don't say shit about heart valve damage from 5HT-2B agonism.


wow, without the word almost this would be one of the worst posts on the board. When you say bad effects I assume you mean instant gratification, because the real bad effects from a drug like this come years later, or from overdose. Don't encourage people to get so inebriated they do not notice the damage they cause themselves.

Bluelight, Erowid and Pih/Tikhal dont say much if anything about the possible heart damage due to 5-HT2b agonism because it is something that accumulates over time and usually with constant and excessive use of a compound which is a known agonist. As such you can't expect such long term studies to exist for something like MPA for which only a few minor studies even mention. Any mentions of the pharmacodynamics of MPA would likely be speculation or fabricated, hence the lack of them.

Furthermore from what i understand of of the 5-HT receptors, and I'm perfectly happy to admit I could be wrong if anyone knows otherwise, the most common agonists that are used recreationally that affect the any of the 5HT receptors (non-selective) are psychedelics Psilocin and LSD. The agonists that affect the 5-HT2b receptors which as you pointed out linked to valvular damage by a mechanism that is unclear tend to be more in the empathogenic class of recreational drugs with MDMA and MDA being the most viable but also psychedelics such as DMT and Bromo-dragonfly.

The link between certain drugs and Cardiac fibrosis (thickening of the valves which is what i assume bloodshed is referring to) was first noted during the fen-phen withdrawl and deaths, the ingredient Fenfluramine was discovered to be powerful agonist of the then little known 5-HT2b receptor however studies show that whilst it was far too often to be considered safe in a prescribed drug often to be taken 3 times a day indefinitely, the actual incident rate of cardiac fibrosis from fen-phen were fairly rare.

The main problem i see with your seemingly slightly aggressive post is that no one knows if MPA is a 5-HT2b agonist, for all we know it could be an antagonist and the next cure of all heart disease but hasn't been noticed yet. Its relatively low euphoric quality would indicate it has moderately less serotonergic effects than some stimulants and substantially less than MDMA and the fact that it is chemically not a phenethylamine or amphetamine its a fairly hasty assumption to jump to that it has 5-HT agonist qualities at all let alone 5-HT2b.

Take for example sumatriptan, which i take at least 3 times a week for migraines, it is a close analogue of DMT (which is a strong agonist) sumatriptan has no psychedelic and a medically negligible agonistic quality on the 5-HT2b receptors.
Considering that MPA is a minor analogue separated from the nearest known 5-HT2b agonist by a considerable amount its reasonable to assume that its agonistic affect on the 5-HT2b is minor/negligible if it exists.

That being said I'm not saying it doesn't, given the appetite suppressing qualities of it and the occasional report of bowel issues (read:MPA shits indicates it may have an effect on smooth muscle function in the bowel and intestine which is also partially controlled by 5HT-2b activity it may be an agonist but deciding that it definitely is and will cause heart problems is far too presumptuous.

I would suggest that when it comes to being concerned about the cardiac effects of drugs 25i(presumably 25i-NBOMe), of which you have taken 50mg has a known 5-HT2b binding affinity of 231±73* and 25c (again, presumably 25c-NBOMe) of which you have consumed 100mg+ as it is part of the NBOMe phenethylamine family presumably (possibly not) has similar a similar binding affinity to 5-HT2b receptors should be more of a concern than MPA which thus far hasn't been found to be receptor binding or a ant/agonist to any of the 5-HT receptors.

*I'm aware binding affinity values have little impact on whether and to what degree something is an agonist or antagonist however if something cannot bind to a receptor the risk of stimulating or blocking that receptor is significantly reduced.

 

[bloodshed344]

the 5ht receptors are a class of receptors.

 

[lynx2051]

Haha. you probs think I'm a sad bastard but, Chatroulette is funny on MPA

 

[Samuelg]

the 5ht receptors are a class of receptors.

I know, relevance ?

 

[Samuelg]

Haha. you probs think I'm a sad bastard but, Chatroulette is funny on MPA

Everything is funny on MPA after long enough awake Then everything just becomes confusing and loud and you realise its time to put down the rolled up tenner and go to sleep.

 

[Intelligent Junkie]

I did meth for the first time and have been up going on 55 hours. I've used a lot of amphetamines and dexlphenidate in the past. When I smoked it I was on 120mg of dexlphenidate. I haven't eaten slept drank or done anything but lock myself in my room. I'm pretty sure I didn't smoke a lot. Not peaking any more but still got a steady buzz and have for the past day or so. I don't feel like I should still be up but do have insomnia. I don't see an end any time soon. Not worried but curious. When I snort addies and focalin it's bout 6 hours. What should I expect. Also I somehow have taken a layer of skin of from tongue from rubbing it on teeth can't stop. And people say it's fun and you wanna laugh. I feel amazing but not shoots really funny to me. Advice or info besides it's bad for u. And u shouldn't have done it. Duh, not oblivious.

 

[lynx2051]

i recommend pyrazolam with mpa, has a nice synergy...

 

[Samuelg]

I did meth for the first time and have been up going on 55 hours. I've used a lot of amphetamines and dexlphenidate in the past. When I smoked it I was on 120mg of dexlphenidate. I haven't eaten slept drank or done anything but lock myself in my room. I'm pretty sure I didn't smoke a lot. Not peaking any more but still got a steady buzz and have for the past day or so. I don't feel like I should still be up but do have insomnia. I don't see an end any time soon. Not worried but curious. When I snort addies and focalin it's bout 6 hours. What should I expect. Also I somehow have taken a layer of skin of from tongue from rubbing it on teeth can't stop. And people say it's fun and you wanna laugh. I feel amazing but not shoots really funny to me. Advice or info besides it's bad for u. And u shouldn't have done it. Duh, not oblivious.

Meth as in methiopropamine (mpa) or meth as in methamphetamine ... or in fact any of the meth-xxxxxs. Ambiguity in the world of RCs and drugs is risky and more importantly it is baffling to my sleep deprived brain

If its MPA, which i really hope it isnt because 55 hours from smoking (vaping) MPA isn't normal. Plus vaping MPA releases all sorts of sulphur you really dont want in your lungs, throat, mouth etc.

As for methamphetamine i'm not particularly well versed in it i have to admit but the general consensus would be drink water, 55 hours without drinking is bad for you without drugs, with methamphetamine its especially bad and slows down the clearance of it from your system. Drink a few big glasses of water but dont go mental and end up giving yourself water poisoning (really hard to do and very unlikely but still) . Have some food, preferably something healthy but i know what eating on stims is like, if it isn't especially nice I'm more likely to just not eat it. I imagine you wont be particularly hungry but again 2+ days eating nothing isn't good for you so you should have some bread or fruit or something, anything really just to give you a bit of energy (not the stimulating kind ) and put something in your stomach. Failing that a smoothie or some shit.

Basically get yourself rehydrated, it helps with clearance of everything but more importantly the clearance of methamphetamine and what it turns into in your body and eat as much as you can sensibly. Perhaps a multivitamin if you have any.

As for getting to sleep there isn't much you can do unless you have any benzo's or weed, i'd recommend weed over benzos there is a lot less CNS depressing to worry about. Whilst taking 1 drug to counteract another isn't the best way of doing things I and many others have taken benzo's to get to sleep after a stimulant without any common issues arising. Other than that step away from the computer, phone, iPad, whatever new fangled gadget you're using and try to relax a bit.

55 hours awake even by my horrific insomniac standards is a long ass time, its also, for a non redosed smoke of methamphetamine far longer than is usual.

The "dexlphenidate" by which i think you meant dexmethlphenidate because dexlphenidate isnt a thing dose drastically lower than 120mg usually around 5-10mg, 20mg in some cases. 120mg is a hell of a lot to take and is probably more to blame for you still being awake, particularly if it was oral and an XR version. The good news is that Focalin is a pretty safe drug with a LD50 (the does at which 50% of test subjects died) is 190mg per kg of body weight in rat tests. Rats obviously react differently than humans but you are still within a safe zone.


I know i said "its bad for you" at least once in this, sorry now go get some water!

edit: Was it focalin? if so do you know if it was XR (extended release) or IR (instant release) and did you snort it or ... ?

 

[Samuelg]

i recommend pyrazolam with mpa, has a nice synergy...

I was always quite a fan of etizolam and mpa but that might just be because i've never had pyrazolam, its more anxiolytic than sedative iirc which could be just the ticket. Might invest in some now that etizolam has become scarce. Not gonna lie the fact that pyrazolam doesnt have a wikipedia page worries me slightly i will look for medical papers on it tomorrow. Good luck with your mpa all nighter

 

[Intelligent Junkie]

The dexmethylphenidate is my focalin. And I am prescribed those.there are in fact 30 xr and I break them open steam roll the beads and yes snort them. I snorted four in one big line which makes 120 mg. Not the most I ever done. I can't eat and I tried to get a cup of water down. No benzo or bud but am prescribed 400mg seroquel and 5 mg of buspirone which is for anxiety but not nearly as powerfully as benzo or barbs. No affect .
and no not AMP. Crystal meth. And yes no redose and my focalin usually wears of in a 6 to 8 hour time period when I snort that much. the drip usually last up to a hour or more.

 

[bloodshed344]

I know, relevance ?

Your post made it sound as if 5-ht2 receptors were an entirely different form of receptor instead of a subset of 5-ht receptors. 5-ht isn't important anyway. The whole point of my post was stimulant experience and problems stemming from it.

 

[lynx2051]

So i went on a small all nighter. Stayed up till 4:30am then took 2mg of pyrazolam and slept till 6am . I just had another dose of MPA this morning, but im due to take 20mg of citalopram pretty soon. Im not sure it would be safe because i took roughly 220mg of MPA throughout yesterday daytime and most of last night. Its only cos someone on here mentioned about MPA's strong maoi properties .


Also pyrazolam really helps when you get the 'stim dick'.

 

[Samuelg]

Your post made it sound as if 5-ht2 receptors were an entirely different form of receptor instead of a subset of 5-ht receptors. 5-ht isn't important anyway. The whole point of my post was stimulant experience and problems stemming from it.

Yes but you posted that in response to a fair claim that you are clearly highly against MPA and from what i can tell many other stimulants despite your extensive list of compounds you have ingested in large quantities. You then go on to first criticise bluelight for making it difficult to find warnings. From my experience if you type any RC name into google it will throw countless bluelight threads at you which are of both positive and negative nature dependent on the users perception

You then go on to criticise erowid which is a huge and useful resource of harm reduction and best practices for safety before finally criticising two books that are 15 years out of date and were never written to study the long term effects of what was synthesised just the short term, and considering your list of various psycho actives a few of which wouldn't even exist if it weren't for pihkal/tikhal. Perhaps slightly more respect could be shown to the books written and the drugs within tested solely by a guy who has become known as "The godfather of psychedelics" considering he did actually invent your much loved 2-CE.

You seem to be desperate to spread the word of potential long term cardiac problems arising from 5-HT2b stimulation, perhaps due to the side effects you have/are expiriencing from taking several agonists over time and that harm reduction intent is commendable, but you cannot get frustrated at the fact websites and books haven't given you data that simply does not exist regarding MPA's long term/high dose actions on the serotonin receptors and subsequently the heart. Whilst its fair that you are doing it out of the interests of harm reduction, unsubstantiated claims are often worse in the long run for harm reduction of unstudied and unassay'd drugs.

Your claim that 5-ht isn't important is frankly laughable, 5-HT click for wiki IS serotonin, the monamine that is responsible for countless processes and metabolic changes within our bodies. With all due respect your original post was highly contradictory and accusatory of MPA, it may well be a 5-HT2b agonist but it equally may not and until it is proven via testing or standardised double blind clinical trials, which i suspect it never will be then no one will be able to tell you/me/anyone if it is or not.

 

[Samuelg]

So i went on a small all nighter. Stayed up till 4:30am then took 2mg of pyrazolam and slept till 6am . I just had another dose of MPA this morning, but im due to take 20mg of citalopram pretty soon. Im not sure it would be safe because i took roughly 220mg of MPA throughout yesterday daytime and most of last night. Its only cos someone on here mentioned about MPA's strong maoi properties .

I have taken pretty substantial amounts of MPA with both sertraline (SSRI) and Dosulepin (TCA + Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) without any problems so i would say that there wouldn't be any reason it would cause an issue re: serotonin syndrome.

I should point out sertraline and dosulepin were not at the same time, TCAs and SSRIs like citalopram are best not mixed but you weren't going to anyway. Twas simply clarifying

The dexmethylphenidate is my focalin. And I am prescribed those.there are in fact 30 xr and I break them open steam roll the beads and yes snort them. I snorted four in one big line which makes 120 mg. Not the most I ever done. I can't eat and I tried to get a cup of water down. No benzo or bud but am prescribed 400mg seroquel and 5 mg of buspirone which is for anxiety but not nearly as powerfully as benzo or barbs. No affect .
and no not AMP. Crystal meth. And yes no redose and my focalin usually wears of in a 6 to 8 hour time period when I snort that much. the drip usually last up to a hour or more.

I'd suggest taking the seroquel and buspirone in accordance with how you are supposed to take them rather than to counteract something else, thats a tricky path to go down and taking stimulants followed by drugs which are not so much sedatives but Neuroleptic and Anxiolytic in their properties will probably not work and could have a negative effect, if you have been prescribed all three by a doctor that knows you are prescribed to all three then its likely safe when taken as suggested and relatively safe when abused

Snorting XR release focalin crushed up or not isn't particularly reliable due to its Spheroidal Oral Drug Absorption System which keeps the drug contained within external layers of polymer, crushing them increases the speed of absorption but doesnt totally counteract it.

The fact that 120mg is something you have experienced before and it lasted 6-8 hours and the effects of methamphetamine last far less than 55 hours when smoked unless you smoke a hell of a lot of it would indicate that there has been some sort of interaction between the focalin and meth that has potentiated either 1 or both of them causing a unusually long lasting effect, i poked round the internet and i cant find any user reports of people taking both methamphetamine and dexmethlyphenidate together or any studies that see an interaction between the two but 55 hours is still a long time to still be feeling effects of either of those two drugs. Dehydration may play a part in this, dehydration slows down the kidneys and liver both of which are responsible for processing, converting and ultimately excreting both of the drugs, along with most others.


The reason i was asking if you meant MPA MethioPropAmine rather than AMP (amphetamines ?) or methamphetamine is because you are posting in the MPA megathread with questions about its analogue Methamphetamine. The methamphetamine megathread can be found here http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/519111-Methamphetamine-Info-amp-IV-Megathread? where someone with better knowledge of meth may be better suited to help you or offer a potential reason for the long duration.

 

[lynx2051]

I gotta take this at night again sometime. It made me feel so horny. Normally if I only take one dose early in the day I only get mild aphrodisiac effects. It's when you re-dose through the day it really turns into MDPV's cousin.

I have taken pretty substantial amounts of MPA with both sertraline (SSRI) and Dosulepin (TCA + Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) without any problems so i would say that there wouldn't be any reason it would cause an issue re: serotonin syndrome.

I should point out sertraline and dosulepin were not at the same time, TCAs and SSRIs like citalopram are best not mixed but you weren't going to anyway. Twas simply clarifying

Thanks, just wanted to double check.

 

[David the Chansey]

Points have been made, further arguments are unnecessary. I myself can get caught up in arguments - it happens to us all - but we all must put our best efforts in to realise when we're only arguing for the sake of arguing.

Samuelg is on fire!

I'm yet to do an all-nighter on MPA, but I have done it on EPH. Well actually, I've taken 25mg of MPA at like 6am (after no sleep) to help me keep me awake for the day, but that was just an ordinary all-nighter extended by one small dose of mpa. Both of these experiences made every part of my body feel horrible, and my mind was so cloudy I couldn't even speak. I would have thoughts in my head that simply wouldn't roll off my tongue. So frustrating!

 

[Samuelg]

Points have been made, further arguments are unnecessary. I myself can get caught up in arguments - it happens to us all - but we all must put our best efforts in to realise when we're only arguing for the sake of arguing.

Samuelg is on fire!

I'm yet to do an all-nighter on MPA, but I have done it on EPH. Well actually, I've taken 25mg of MPA at like 6am (after no sleep) to help me keep me awake for the day, but that was just an ordinary all-nighter extended by one small dose of mpa. Both of these experiences made every part of my body feel horrible, and my mind was so cloudy I couldn't even speak. I would have thoughts in my head that simply wouldn't roll off my tongue. So frustrating!

Yeah its far too easy to carry on a, shall we say "Heated debate" for no reason other than principles but it is ultimately pretty pointless, people who have made up their mind rarely have it changed, I'm just pretty ocd when it comes to fact checking and making sure facts aren't made up, if someone with no history of heart problems read that it was a cardio toxin they may well think that the benefits outweigh the risks only to find it works in a completely different way and that schizophrenia their great grandmother had get triggered or something like that. Whilst speculation is good and it bounces ideas around that other people can comment on and draw their own conclusions but it should be clear that isn't based on any facts.

EPH as in ethylphenidate? sorry, as soon as my brains sees an abbreviation it lists all the different things it could be, my immediate assumption was ephedrine but i suspect you mean ethylphenidate I have only tried ethylphenidate once and it burnt a chunk of my septum out and left weird yellow stuff in its wake so my view of it was somewhat tarnished, i have heard good things of it since and it was relatively untested when i tried it, I might have to try it via a less burn-y ROA. Its fairly standard for me to go two days awake to one nights sleep anyway for some bizarre reason that predates any drug use, MPA is a damn handy thing to have when you start to flag in the second day. Unlike some stims i find it is a lot less fiendish than amphetamine or dexedrine, i usually re-dose but its a much more considered - "Well, this will keep me awake till i get home and go to sleep" rather than - "FUCK YEAH MORE LINES WOOOO" which is nice, theres a few side effects that are less than fun but overall they are acceptable imo. The one user reported side effect that concerns me (and most men I'd think) is the testicular pain caused by MPA. I have tried working out the mechanism that causes this but with no conclusions or even ideas as to why but I'm gonna keep thinking on it

It gets a lot of criticism for not being particularly potent but thats one of the aspects of it i like, if it was anymore euphoric or stimulating it wouldn't be nearly as functional. Its one thing going to work a bit shaky and wide eyed its a different ballgame when you are grinning endlessly and going on about how you really understand the festive spirit of christmas (something i have done whilst on 3-meo-pcp, an interesting work day i have to say)

Also lynx, no worries its always a good idea to look into possible interactions between SSRI's and other inhibitors especially as I'm sure you already know MAOI's which can interact with pretty much any other drug dangerously, even certain cheeses iirc. Fortunately MAOI prescriptions have dropped drastically, i'd consider taking RCs whilst also taking MAOIs is a risky decision at best whereas SSRIs it is relatively safe provided no SSRI analogues appear which is unlikely.

 

[David the Chansey]

Don't worry Samuelg, my previous post wasn't aimed at you. I said you were on fire because of the amount of posts (that are actually informative) you made.

I haven't done many drugs recently, so I might reward myself with a spontaneous MPA binge some time soon. It'll be interesting to see how it compares to my ethylphenidate (yup, this is what I meant by EPH) binge. I'll be sure to post it on here, and maybe on the ethylphenidate thread too, to make the comparison.

 

[Samuelg]

Don't worry Samuelg, my previous post wasn't aimed at you. I said you were on fire because of the amount of posts (that are actually informative) you made.

I haven't done many drugs recently, so I might reward myself with a spontaneous MPA binge some time soon. It'll be interesting to see how it compares to my ethylphenidate (yup, this is what I meant by EPH) binge. I'll be sure to post it on here, and maybe on the ethylphenidate thread too, to make the comparison.

Huzzah my tireless reading of medical texts has finally been proven useful, also feel free to call me Samuel, the G makes it sound far too formal

Actually, come to think of it (and searching my email) i ordered EPH and three hours after it arrived i got a panicked email from the vendor saying he had sent me mislabelled camfetamine instead of EPH which is a whole different kettle of fish, a nose corroding kettle of fish i even took a photo up my nose and it wasn't a pretty sight, Its just a bloody good job i hadn't taken any yet and it wasn't something with a hugely lower dose such as the mislabelled 25I-NBOMe horror stories you hear of people doing 80mg lines thinking its MPA or EPH and going irreversibly insane(i think, in all honesty i cant be bothered to look). safe to say i wont be using that vendor again.

So i haven't ever tried it i will have to remedy that as it seems to be fairly well established and the "reviews" as it were, seem mostly positive. I don't really drink and from what i read alcohol, probably due to it being ethyl based, is a great potentiator of EPH so I might have to chug down a few shots in the name of science although given that my last alcoholic drink was 1 beer 9 months ago i imagine a couple of shots would have me more drunk than it should for an adult and anyone else of my age, still its far cheaper when i actually do drink but usually has messy results e.g hangovers that make even the worst of comedowns feel like nothing.

I have heard some strikingly good reports of IV EPH but i think i will steer clear of shooting RCs until i have access to a GC-MS machine to make sure i know what im firing into my blood. That being said there has actually been some proper research into ethylphenidate as it is a natural byproduct during the metabolism of methylphenidate when co-administered with alcohol which is a pretty common combination be it recreational methylphenidate or prescribed.

Also the structural changes between mEPH and EPH are incredibly similar compared to other analogues in as much as no additional elements outside of the original formula it just changes the subscripts with EPH having an extra carbon atom and a few hydrogen atoms which in comparison to MPA and Methamphetamine's analogue which add a whole extra sulphur atom.

I've talked myself into buying some EPH now, damn

 

[lynx2051]

I am in love with MPA. I just love oral dosing.

is it dangerous to have a bottle of red wine with MPA, cos of the MAOI effects of it?