The MDxx Discussion Thread Number 3!

[Oldred3s]

From EU -

Damn they make some good looking pills and good doses. These are 200 mg's.

how fucking awesome are those gold bars? they look dope.
if only all pressers had a heart and stamped the mg dosage into them.

 

[lowlife]

This is the first I'm seeing of those gold bars.. epic! Personally I thought the Chupa Chups have been the coolest looking pills to come out of Europe so far. Don't think they are as strong as those though, but would still rock you pretty hard.

Looks like somebody may be reproducing the Android press here in Australia, no doubt there's going to be a lot of people feeling pretty ripped off paying top dollar for what they think are strong, imported pills.

http://pillreports.com/index.php?page=display_pill&id=33476

 

[poledriver]

Blue Android, White Bugatti und Red Chupa Chups w/ 160-200mg MDMA

 

[Quixote]

Do you guys think shard would be as big as it has been the past few years if it hadn't been for the crack down on MDMA and related precursors that led to the huge nosedive in quality around 08/09?

 

[poledriver]

Hard to say hey! I'd hope not. And I wish we had those kinds of pills in the pics here in bulk. I'd get on them a few times a year for sure.

 

[p i l l s]

Do you guys think shard would be as big as it has been the past few years if it hadn't been for the crack down on MDMA and related precursors that led to the huge nosedive in quality around 08/09?

From what I've seen and experienced, That's exactly what happened.

I used to be the biggest bikkie monster out there, Touching the pipe was the last thing i thought i'd do, But when the MDMA dried up the only thing that was left was the shard.

I've had probably under 10 pills in the last 2 years, Before that i was taking nearly 10 a weekend lol, I can't even remember the feeling. I wouldn't even consider the thought of taking pills anymore either, Where i'm from know one even knows or cares if pills have MDMA in them, As long as they get you fucked up they will buy them.

 

[poledriver]

^ Yeah. Something I've heard all too much.

How times have changed in 20 odd years. There used to be so many mad strong E's all around Aus and no shard and now it's just about totally the opposite.

 

[p i l l s]

I can't vouch for the last 20 years because half of that i was still a child, But even in the last 4 years things have changed massively around my neck of the woods.

It sucks that i was just getting into the party scene (MDMA clubbing) at the tail end of it (2007)

Can't even image what the quality was like some 15 years ago!

The shard epidemic is taking over, Give it a few more years and it will be full scale!

 

[poledriver]

Yeah I'm from a different generation, i'm getting close to 40 now lol..

First raves I went to in Syd were in 91 and strong pills were fucking everywhere and shards were nowhere. The scene was awesome, huge warehouse raves and clubs all with such amazing vibes and friendliness. It was all new and exciting and pills were twice as expensive as they are now.

 

[One Thousand Words]

That was a time when pills needed scores for a reason. Sometimes a half more was all you needed.

I'd seriously pay top dollar (early 90's prices) for good quality pills like those gold bars above. The only novelty press I ever came across were some pretty hearts around 94-95. Splitting one of those with a cute girl was almost romantic.

 

[poledriver]

100mg's MDMA

 

[mister]

People are saying the lesser dosed pills like the Chupa Chups, pictured in Poledriver post, are better than the Dutch super pills with 200mgs in them

 

[Biscuit]

^ That is because 200 mg of MDMA (and that is pure MDMA-HCl; the user is more likely ingesting 250 mg of MDMA-HCl that is manufactured illegally (e.g. 200mg plus 50mg of impurities/precursors remaining in the product) and not entirely clean, even if it has come from a "super-lab") is for most users too high a dose to have in one go, as the experience would just be too messy and lack the loved up munted clarity of the perfect dose of clean MDMA.

I think Australian users in particular should be very wary of these pills; the highest dose pill I have had in 15 years is only 150mg. I can only imagine what would happen if large numbers of 18-20 year old idiots started popping these at festivals over an Australian summer. Every year the level of confused messiness continues to climb to some ugly highs, moving in tandem with the length of the average high heel shoe worn to these events even though the punters are surrounded by various strains of soft grass; and that is so even when the supply of MDXX and related substances is laughable to non-existent.

On another note (if this is breaching guidelines then please remove), given the massive supply of these obviously related super pills in many different countries, it does seem to me that MDMA users are one or two superlab busts away from this incredible range of high dose pills suddenly disappearing, the world over. I really hope that this does not occur before Australia gets its turn, a turn which must be enjoyed sensibly and with an appropriate level of respect and restraint.

 

[mister]

^ That is because 200 mg of MDMA (and that is pure MDMA-HCl; the user is more likely ingesting 250 mg of MDMA-HCl that is manufactured illegally (e.g. 200mg plus 50mg of impurities/precursors remaining in the product) and not entirely clean, even if it has come from a "super-lab") is for most users too high a dose to have in one go, as the experience would just be too messy and lack the loved up munted clarity of the perfect dose of clean MDMA.

I think Australian users in particular should be very wary of these pills; the highest dose pill I have had in 15 years is only 150mg. I can only imagine what would happen if large numbers of 18-20 year old idiots started popping these at festivals over an Australian summer. Every year the level of confused messiness continues to climb to some ugly highs, moving in tandem with the length of the average high heel shoe worn to these events even though the punters are surrounded by various strains of soft grass; and that is so even when the supply of MDXX and related substances is laughable to non-existent.

On another note (if this is breaching guidelines then please remove), given the massive supply of these obviously related super pills in many different countries, it does seem to me that MDMA users are one or two superlab busts away from this incredible range of high dose pills suddenly disappearing, the world over. I really hope that this does not occur before Australia gets its turn, a turn which must be enjoyed sensibly and with an appropriate level of respect and restraint.

Good point, Buscuit, my post wasn't to encourage people to take more. The Dutch super pills even when taken in half still report mongy effects, yet the lesser dosed pills such as the Chupa Chups produced the classic MDMA effects such as being loved up and very social.

If you take 200mgs of MDMA you most likely wont enjoy it as much as taking half of that.

 

[Biscuit]

^ That is what I have heard too, the 64 million dollar question is "why?"!

Whilst it goes against everything that Shulgin taught us about the preferred enantiomeric ratio of MDMA (being 1:1) and that MDMA produced from the most common precursor MD-P2P should be approximately 1:1, the only explanation seems to be that the MDMA being produced by the superlabs is of a different and less ideal enantiomeric ratio. Perhaps they are using new catalysts in the reductive amination which favour the production of a certain enantiomer.

This might also explain why the dosages are so massive because more is needed for the desired effect. E.g. if you have racemic methamphetamine you might want a 100mg hit but if you had pure D-meth, 50mg would do you. If the ratio was out in the MDMA that is being pumped into these high dose pills (e.g. 30% one enantiomer and 70% the other) then maybe the dosages need to be significantly more than they otherwise need to be, and they remain mongy regardless.

I really am making speculative educated guesses here. But the difference in "feel" of these super ones is too widespread for it not to be directly related to the chemical makeup of what is in inside at the molecular level.

 

[Oldred3s]

I reckon it's got more to do with how cheap it is to produce and the amount of competition on the market. In holland you can buy a 5 pack for the price of a single local aus pressed pill and because so many of them are 200mg+ it's really a good 10 pack or gram. Press pills with higher dosage means that they can be split in half and easy to ship (less volume of pills more drug quantity) it's all marketing and logistics really. People in Europe aren't like people in Australia, they aren't out to get fucked up, they prefer to get high and still in control. (Not all Aussies are out to get fucked up but quite a fair portion are)

 

[mister]

But the mdma is shit, was lucky enough to get some mdma and bombed 90mgs last night and I was pretty fucked off such a small amount, very loved up and sociable. Most of todays mdma just mongs you out and couch locks you, thats not what mdma is all about.

Ive noticed good mdma takes about an hour to come on were as the shitty mdma you can feel in 20 minutes

 

[Biscuit]

But the mdma is shit, was lucky enough to get some mdma and bombed 90mgs last night and I was pretty fucked off such a small amount, very loved up and sociable. Most of todays mdma just mongs you out and couch locks you, thats not what mdma is all about.

Ive noticed good mdma takes about an hour to come on were as the shitty mdma you can feel in 20 minutes

I don't disagree with you but the lab results don't lie. If we assume that the "good" MDMA pills obviously contain MDMA and we know the pills in discussion do as well, then there must be a chemical/pharmacological explanation for this marked difference.

The only two I can think of is that there is an impurity or impurities present in the MDMA being manufactured, which is creating this pharmacological/physiological difference, or there is an issue with the enantiomeric ratio as stated above and the ideal combination is simply absent from these pills and thus they feel different.

I doubt the form of the MDMA salt used in the pills (whether the hydrochloride, phosphate, tartrate, or something else) has anything to do with it either, as there is no pharmacological reason for why this is so (absorption issues aside which should not impact on the subjective effect we are focused on).

It would be interesting for some of these pills to be thoroughly analysed by a forensic chemist who could identify all the different chemicals the pill contains and in what quantities (being the MDMA, left over precursors, left over reactants, left over solvents, impurities created as a by product of the manufacturing processes in question, the fillers, the binders, the colouring, hey even whether they contain MSG). I don't know whether this has been discussed in the MDMA forum but I haven't seen any such discussion, which surprises me.

 

[Oldred3s]

I don't disagree with you but the lab results don't lie. If we assume that the "good" MDMA pills obviously contain MDMA and we know the pills in discussion do as well, then there must be a chemical/pharmacological explanation for this marked difference.

The only two I can think of is that there is an impurity or impurities present in the MDMA being manufactured, which is creating this pharmacological/physiological difference, or there is an issue with the enantiomeric ratio as stated above and the ideal combination is simply absent from these pills and thus they feel different.

I doubt the form of the MDMA salt used in the pills (whether the hydrochloride, phosphate, tartrate, or something else) has anything to do with it either, as there is no pharmacological reason for why this is so (absorption issues aside which should not impact on the subjective effect we are focused on).

It would be interesting for some of these pills to be thoroughly analysed by a forensic chemist who could identify all the different chemicals the pill contains and in what quantities (being the MDMA, left over precursors, left over reactants, left over solvents, impurities created as a by product of the manufacturing processes in question, the fillers, the binders, the colouring, hey even whether they contain MSG). I don't know whether this has been discussed in the MDMA forum but I haven't seen any such discussion, which surprises me.

I have read when making mescaline that diesels vary according to the salt due the the weight of the yield, eg. Mescaline hcl is heavier than mescaline citrate so less is need to get te effect. Maybe MDMA is the same, different weights mean different dosage measurements?.

 

[Biscuit]

^ the type of MDMA salt would definitely impact on the actual amount of MDMA you are consuming relative to the total mass of the powder. An anion (e.g. HCl, phosphate, citrate, tartrate etc) with a heavier molecular weight would mean you would need a greater amount of the powder than a MDMA salt where the anion is of lower molecular weight (assuming a ratio of 1 MDMA molecule to 1 anion).

However, all of this becomes irrelevant when you have a look at the Eve-Rave results. Every single MDMA pill is described as MDMA-HCl, including some of the ones with these massive doses. Therefore, this factor can probably be disregarded until someone produces a lab result that confirms the MDMA is in a different form to the HCl.