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The MDxx Discussion Thread Number 2

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A be careful of pigs and dogs and even pigdogs. Especially Sydney that's the doggest piggest town for dogs and pigs at festies. They are not there to help you have a good time or even to help you stay safe they are there to fear and to tax. Dogs at festivals is a great money maker! Say 100 innocent kids get done with two pingers each. That a lot of revenue for the pigs, the government, lawyers, and courts, economically win win you just don't want to be the one with a record and 1000$+ fine all for your 'safety'

Probably safer to get really really intoxicated on alcohol and hope you don't fall over hit your head and die in you own pool of vomit.

Or know someone 'loose'
 
It can easily cost in excess of $20000/yr to train a police dog (plus the cost of the handler), so they would need a few more punters than what they are catching to actually turn this into a profitable scheme.
 
Busty St Clare said:
It can easily cost in excess of $20000/yr to train a police dog (plus the cost of the handler), so they would need a few more punters than what they are catching to actually turn this into a profitable scheme.
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Each handler can train multiple dogs at a time though yes?


laugh said:
A be careful of pigs and dogs and even pigdogs. Especially Sydney that's the doggest piggest town for dogs and pigs at festies. They are not there to help you have a good time or even to help you stay safe they are there to fear and to tax. Dogs at festivals is a great money maker! Say 100 innocent kids get done with two pingers each. That a lot of revenue for the pigs, the government, lawyers, and courts, economically win win you just don't want to be the one with a record and 1000$+ fine all for your 'safety'

Probably safer to get really really intoxicated on alcohol and hope you don't fall over hit your head and die in you own pool of vomit.

Or know someone 'loose'
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You're not really right here. Remember Future last year anyone with 3 pills or less. Or 1gram of a substance or less, provided they had no priors only had to do a drug education course and no criminal record would be recorded.
I'm not at all advising people to take stuff in, or saying that this will be the same in your case. But I hardly think sniffer dogs are at festivals for revenue raising, they can only catch one person at a time. And have to go on breaks every 30 minutes. The revenue raised would be very minimal when it comes to sniffer dogs at festival, not at all like speeding fines in Australia which are getting revenue by the hundreds of millions.
 
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really? i thought it was more like 1 officer = 1 dog. i was under the impression that the handler also was the dog's "owner" and lived in their home etc.
which is why you should never fuck with a sniffer dog (other than the fact that it isn't the animal's fault) - it's the policeman's mutt.
 
spacejunk said:
really? i thought it was more like 1 officer = 1 dog. i was under the impression that the handler also was the dog's "owner" and lived in their home etc.
which is why you should never fuck with a sniffer dog (other than the fact that it isn't the animal's fault) - it's the policeman's mutt.
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I'm not sure, but I don't think thats correct.

However after doing some googling I'm thinking maybe I'm wrong. Having said that from this site training a sniffer dog is an extremely fast process http://www.g7iedssecurity.com/snifferdogtraining/consultancy.html
Pro-Active Drugs Search Dog Handler Course

Course Length 10 Days

Aim: To gain the necessary skills for dog and handler team to achieve operational standard for pro-active search dogs, as defined by National Police Dog assessment model

Objectives: On completion participants will be able to demonstrate:

The Handler...

How to operate dog in a systematic Search
Control of the dog on and off leash
Safe handling of drugs, cash and weapon training aids
Safe and practical application of procedures following a find
The Dog...

Instant response to handlers commands both on and off leash
How to search and indicate presence of drugs in buildings, vessels, vehicles and routes
How to ignore reasonable distractions caused by noise, movement and non target odours
Course Content - Practical and theoretical development of all above criteria.
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10 days? I assumed it would take much longer. If that is the case I would assume that a trainer wouldn't be training multiple dogs at a time, but I also fail to see how this could cost $20,000, Who's bluelights resident sniffer dog expert? Anyone know of one from Aus or overseas we could bring in for a bit of help?
 
sounds a bit fishy to me...10 days?
dogs sniff everything. it is hard for humans to even conceptualise how sensitive their sense of smell is.

training them to sniff and respond to certain odours would be an extremely time consuming process, i imagine.
considering the role they place in police work, i gotta call bullshit on the 10 days thing. i hope it's not true, anyway.
 
They tend to start with a pure bred so right off the bat you are looking at around $4000 for a german Shepard with the appropriate breeding. Even beagles would set you back at least $1000. It definitely takes longer than 10 days. You would be hard pressed to train a smart dog not to shit on your rug in 10 days. To give you a comparison guide dogs in Australia cost $30 000 each to train and take between 12-18 months. Police dogs are a lot easier with regards to skills but you still wouldn't let one lose on the public after a couple of weeks.
 
^yeah I second that. They have more receptors to their noses then we do to our eyes, this means they smell each substance independently instead of the combined smell that we smell. 10 days definitely sounds off to me.

I don't think it's a fair comparison to put them in the league of a guard dog though. If it costs 30,000 for each guide dog (which sounds reasonable) I don't think a drug sniffing dog would be anywhere near 20,000.
 
i dont know of anyone getting off with a course or whatever but i know a handful of students that have been seriously fucked over for personal amounts, made a lesson of or some bullshit. i think we are all guessing its gone from $20,000 down to what do we think now? $4,000 for a shephard sounds rich to me especially considering we have inbred them to the extent their hind legs often have deformities. my best mate has a pure bred labrador would have been a guidedog was the pick of the litter...less than $,1000 full papers the works...this dog could learn to sit on a rug quicker than i could, humans are not all that superior to animals like we like to think we are. in saying that i doubt an questionably intelligent pig could train an intelligent dog in 10 days, im not sure the pig could keep up.

what ever it costs to train a dog i dont really care...it always seemed to me they were trying to recooperate the cost of training etc in fines and penalties. i mean if they train a dog and it doesnt get any convictions its not going to last long. you honestly think the officer that goes home a sinks a dozen beers gives a flying fuck about the people they are abusing? its just a job a job were they are immune from the average citizen and they often often abuse that i have witnessed it too many times.

policing is a business, same as every other facet of our wonderful society. speed camers = tax machines. pigs walking taxers they couldnt give a shit about anything except bringing in the coin, keeps the courts busy, keeps the lawyers busy, the judges, blah blah blah its just a big money making game their is no morality no common sense no compassion. the sad thing is its usually the poor, disadvantaged, sick or vulnerable that are caught in the game. these people have been brought up not to trust the pigs because nothing good ever comes from them. go to any court house when the games is being played atleast 90% of the people are mentally unwell, aboriginal, from the lowest socioeconomic backgrounds...these people keep getting kicked when they are down, cop this tax, cop this fine, work for dole, do this course blah blah blah

dogs are used to fine and tax people, to generate an income and to recoop some of those training / living expenses...what are you saying they are to save lives? do pigs work on a commission, it often seems as though they do?
 
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There are pure breeds and there are pure breeds. Just like race horses are better coming from a reliable blood line, so too do police dogs. If you google you can see you can buy police trained dogs for around $8000. I would suggest this is a basic training dog, and if they were any good they wouldn't be let go by the police. You would also have to factor in the cost of the handler, who I would imagine would be a higher rank and pay schedule than your run of the mill constable Plod. $20 000 might sound extreme but you also have to factor in the equipment used, specialised kennels etc that would be more expensive than a couple of old blankets in some ones laundry.

I just don't see police operations like this as a money making activity, and if I was their boss i would be asking why their budget was barely reached catching only 100 punters at a festival of 30 000 drug takers. If the police force ran like a private enterprise they wouldn't be struggling with a single helicopter running part time in SEQ.
 
@busty - but that's the problem - it isn't a private enterprise, they are paid for by the taxpayer to "serve and protect" the community, not bully people at festivals (or walking into a train station).
the profiteering element of drugs charges - like in the usa where there are police drug units that are wholly self-funded from proceeds-of-crime seizure money - is where the war on drugs is seriously out of hand. the money corrupts the cops, and the push to bust people (no matter how harmless they are, or whether or not they only possess personal amounts) becomes of greater importance than protecting the community.

we need to keep economic rationalism out of policing. otherwise we end up with police acting like some private moral militia.
keep in mind also that it is up to the discretion of the cop in most cases as to whether or not you get a caution/education counselling session or a fine.
 
some interesting reading about sniffer dogs...........

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/sniffer-dogs-get-it-wrong-four-out-of-five-times-20111211-1oprv.html

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3728678.html

http://www.nswccl.org.au/docs/pdf/sniffer%20dogs%20submission.pdf

A relative of mines ex used to train drug dogs and he said most of the time the dogs get it wrong when it comes to live detecting such as at a festival, usually if the handler suspects you of carrying drugs he will make the dog "indicate" which is what happens when the nice doggy comes and sits next to you.

The moral of the story, dont look suspicious.
 
^ I've had a "scent" picked up by a dog before. Fortunately this was before I started using drugs. But the more I read about sniffer dogs the more you see how easy it is for a handler to make them indicate. And also How rarely they legitimately smell wrong.
I must've been looking shifty that night 8)


Does anyone mind if we go back to MDxx discussion, Their is a sniffer dog thread for a reason haha
 
Hi all,

I will be acquiring some molly soon that I have been told by a reliable source is very pure.

I realise that regardless of how 'pure' we are told our goodies are that we can never really be sure until we test them. Notwithstanding this, if the molly is good quality what would be the opinion of fellow bluelighter's for dosage?

I plan on making my own caps, for convenience when taking out. I am considering placing between 110mg-125mg in each cap. Given that I believe recent pills i've taken would probably be between the 70-90mg dose, I thought 110-125mg would be great, however am interested in other experienced users opinions.

Cheers.
 
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From what I remember my mum saying (this is nz too) the initial short training course is to find the dogs that are suitable, then they train the selected dogs further and a part of that is on the job training. And mister is right, dogs get it wrong all the time, other smells can throw them off, they sometimes get excited or aren't focused, don't work with the handler well or are inexperienced or just not all that good at 'sniffing'.

I got stopped by a dog going back to nz once a few years ago, I freaked out and thought I may have left something in my backpack but the dog just got it wrong. My bag wasnt the cleanest, Id had it for a long time and used it to go camping a few times so maybe all the smells confused or interested it. The worst part was I'd forgotten to take a porno out of the back pocket that I hardly ever use and it was pulled out in front of everyone in the line by a female customs agent. Haha embarrassing!

Also can we ease up on the 'pig' talk, its not nice reading and we're better than that. Its no better than some of them treating us like 'stupid druggies' and if we want to hold some moral high ground we shouldn't stoop to that level, it just keeps the shitty cycle of us and them continuing and if we want change when it comes to drugs and the law and how people view drug users talking like that isn't doing us any help.
 
cassandragemini said:
The worst part was I'd forgotten to take a porno out of the back pocket that I hardly ever use and it was pulled out in front of everyone in the line by a female customs agent. Haha embarrassing!
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Haha - well as an environmentalist I commend you for reusing at all ;)
 
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