Lysergamides The LSD testing thread
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gloggawogga
Bluelighter
^^^
Uhm...I guess you didn't have a chance to read my above post before you posted yours. Anyways, I find both mescaline and DMT to be way more visual than LSD, and have also gotten crazy visuals from at least a few other psychedelics. This is way I don't think advising people how to tell the difference between 5-meo-amt and LSD by subjective effects is really a good advice at all.
Uhm...I guess you didn't have a chance to read my above post before you posted yours. Anyways, I find both mescaline and DMT to be way more visual than LSD, and have also gotten crazy visuals from at least a few other psychedelics. This is way I don't think advising people how to tell the difference between 5-meo-amt and LSD by subjective effects is really a good advice at all.
Grignard
Bluelighter
BilZ0r said:
Well assuming that the test kit used was simply ehrlich's reagent, I don't see a reason why 5-MeO-AMT wouldn't give a positive result. Ehrlich's is a pretty broad spectrum reagent and will react with most simple indolic compounds to give a colored product.
sk8punk151 said:
No it's not bunk, tard. You shouldn't assume things you dont even know, I mean you're not here to see it. It all depends on the amount of LSD you take. The larger the dose is- the longer you will trip. I'm just saying for most of average 1 hit of LSD around here and there lasts approx 8 hours.
On the link below you can find a scanned page(s) of book that says LSD isnt Tryptamine at all. Of course, many of us knows how complex LSD's structure is, I'm not sure if it should be considered as Tryptamine cuz its exoskeleteon seemed to be showing Phene moiety strongly. I'm not a chemist..
I dont remember the name of that book, Noizymaker gave me these pics of scanned pages long time ago.
Just look at bottom right corner of the 1st picture, and ignore the note on it.
http://minddash.topcities.com/temp/moron1ul.jpg
http://minddash.topcities.com/temp/moron2ul.jpg
Coolio
Greenlighter
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The duration of LSD in 'the literature' is always listed as 8-12 hours on average. This is for 50-250ug doses usually. From talking to experienced users of LSD I'd say the average duration of LSD is more like 12-36 hours depending on dose (36 being more likely after eating a few 10 strips). There is no known way to distinguish between 5-MeO-AMT and LSD without GC/MS analysis.
Field tests for presence of some indoles:
1. LSD in water or ethanol solution is known to glow neon blue under a blacklight. The glow may be very faint depending on the concentration of the LSD and the power of the blacklight.
2. LSD will cause a purple color to appear in Ehrlich's reagent (para-(dimethylamino)-benzaldehyde in ethanol/HCl solution) and after 30-60 minutes it will fade to blue. Ehrlich's supposedly turns purple/violet with any alpha or beta unsubstituted indoles though. Psilocin has been found to turn blue then fade to violet, and psilocybin turned reddish-purple then faded to violet.
3. Marquis reagant exposed to LSD or amphetamine will turn orange/brown. Psilocin will turn green to black, and psilocybin will turn yellow to green.
4. Dissolving indoles in ethanol and then adding a few drops of HCl and some pine tree shavings should turn the solution a "cheny red" color, whatever that means. This method was tested on mushrooms only as far as I know, no idea whether LSD has the same result.
5. Something called Pauley reagent, which is "diazotised sulphanilic acid", will generate a deep red-orange color when in the presence of psilocin, but not psilocybin.
If anyone would be willing to perform these procedures on some lab analyzed 5-MeO-AMT, we could probably come up with a pretty accurate field test for LSD that differentiates between LSD and 5-MeO-AMT. If anyone has some lab analyzed LSD to try these procedures on, even better.
Field tests for presence of some indoles:
1. LSD in water or ethanol solution is known to glow neon blue under a blacklight. The glow may be very faint depending on the concentration of the LSD and the power of the blacklight.
2. LSD will cause a purple color to appear in Ehrlich's reagent (para-(dimethylamino)-benzaldehyde in ethanol/HCl solution) and after 30-60 minutes it will fade to blue. Ehrlich's supposedly turns purple/violet with any alpha or beta unsubstituted indoles though. Psilocin has been found to turn blue then fade to violet, and psilocybin turned reddish-purple then faded to violet.
3. Marquis reagant exposed to LSD or amphetamine will turn orange/brown. Psilocin will turn green to black, and psilocybin will turn yellow to green.
4. Dissolving indoles in ethanol and then adding a few drops of HCl and some pine tree shavings should turn the solution a "cheny red" color, whatever that means. This method was tested on mushrooms only as far as I know, no idea whether LSD has the same result.
5. Something called Pauley reagent, which is "diazotised sulphanilic acid", will generate a deep red-orange color when in the presence of psilocin, but not psilocybin.
If anyone would be willing to perform these procedures on some lab analyzed 5-MeO-AMT, we could probably come up with a pretty accurate field test for LSD that differentiates between LSD and 5-MeO-AMT. If anyone has some lab analyzed LSD to try these procedures on, even better.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
"Crackforkids":
You can have your substance tested for $110 if you'd like to send it to ecstasydata's lab with the cash in the envelope or send the money to erowid. (DO NOT SEND THE SUBSTANCE TO EROWID!, that only goes to the lab) and we'll tell the lab to test it. the testing project is quite short on cash and it is outside the charter to test anything but e-tablets within the budget.
feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.
SG
You can have your substance tested for $110 if you'd like to send it to ecstasydata's lab with the cash in the envelope or send the money to erowid. (DO NOT SEND THE SUBSTANCE TO EROWID!, that only goes to the lab) and we'll tell the lab to test it. the testing project is quite short on cash and it is outside the charter to test anything but e-tablets within the budget.
feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.
SG
Real_Illusion
Bluelighter
Anyone got any 5-MeO-AMT left over from before the bust? It'd be a good idea for someone to test it and post the results.
fastandbulbous
Bluelight Crew
Basis of LSD structure
I'm not sure if it should be considered as Tryptamine cuz its exoskeleteon seemed to be showing Phene moiety strongly. I'm not a chemist..
MindDash, the reason LSD is included in with the tryptamines is because at the heart of LSD's structure (insects have exoskeletons, not molecules) is the two ring indole group. I can see the phenethylamine connection you mention, but as all the phenethylamine hallucinogens require an oxygen or sulphur atom present* (as either an ether or cyclic ether), lumping LSD in with the phenethylamine hallucinogens doesn't make much sense. If you have a look at the jpeg I posted previously, you'll see that the tryptamine structure is an integral part of the lysergic acid molecule (technically it can be seen as an N,N-disubstituted tryptamine as the nitrogen of the sidechain is present as a tertiary amine).
* - In case anyone is being picky, I know IAP is outside that definition, but it's really an entactogen, rather than a true psychedelic
I'm not sure if it should be considered as Tryptamine cuz its exoskeleteon seemed to be showing Phene moiety strongly. I'm not a chemist..
MindDash, the reason LSD is included in with the tryptamines is because at the heart of LSD's structure (insects have exoskeletons, not molecules) is the two ring indole group. I can see the phenethylamine connection you mention, but as all the phenethylamine hallucinogens require an oxygen or sulphur atom present* (as either an ether or cyclic ether), lumping LSD in with the phenethylamine hallucinogens doesn't make much sense. If you have a look at the jpeg I posted previously, you'll see that the tryptamine structure is an integral part of the lysergic acid molecule (technically it can be seen as an N,N-disubstituted tryptamine as the nitrogen of the sidechain is present as a tertiary amine).
* - In case anyone is being picky, I know IAP is outside that definition, but it's really an entactogen, rather than a true psychedelic
Bishop
Bluelighter
5-MeO-AMT vs. LSD
First of all I did a search and turned up less than favourable results. Also, this is not an ID question, Im not really interested in someone's conjecture as to what I have, what I am asking for is actual information which may assist me in assessing my own situation.
I'm trying to gather some information as to both subjective and empirical info, but with a preferred emphasis on the empirical, as to the differences between 5-MeO-AMT and LSD.
First, given that Erowid lists that 5-MeO-AMT's threshold dose is approximately 1mg or 1000ugs and an average dose as something more in the 2-4mg range, is it likely that a single hit of north american (as opposed to the fuzzier larger perforated tabs I've come across in Europe) 1/4" blotter paper could absorb enough of the substance to make a single hit orally active?
Second, aside from longer duration of action is there any other notable non-subjective differentiators? Is 5-MeO-AMT known to take longer to onset? I've always found that the initial onset with LSD tends to begin within the 15-30 minute range, does 5-MeO-AMT take any longer?
Also, I'd like to ask the same questions again but in regards to DOB in place of 5-MeO-AMT.
Also, are there any other known tryptamines or phenethylamines that are known to be active in doses small enough to absorb onto single hits of blotter? What about AL-LAD, ALD-52, and other Lysergic Acid Analogs?
I'm aware of the blacklight UV test for LSD and will perform it as soon as I get access to a blacklight. But given that the blotter itself is quite dark in colour I'm not convinced that the glow emitted from a small quantity of LSD on the paper would be discernable. Also, is it necessarily known that DOB, non LSD-25 lysergic acid analogs and 5-MeO-AMT are all non-responsive under UV light?
Again, I'm not asking anyone to ID anything for me, what I am asking for is information regarding the differences of these 3 substances, from which I hope to better understand my situation. I'm not an idiot, and don't suppose for a second that someone can through the internet postively ID anything for me, and wouldn't try.
Thanks, any feedback is much appreciated.
First of all I did a search and turned up less than favourable results. Also, this is not an ID question, Im not really interested in someone's conjecture as to what I have, what I am asking for is actual information which may assist me in assessing my own situation.
I'm trying to gather some information as to both subjective and empirical info, but with a preferred emphasis on the empirical, as to the differences between 5-MeO-AMT and LSD.
First, given that Erowid lists that 5-MeO-AMT's threshold dose is approximately 1mg or 1000ugs and an average dose as something more in the 2-4mg range, is it likely that a single hit of north american (as opposed to the fuzzier larger perforated tabs I've come across in Europe) 1/4" blotter paper could absorb enough of the substance to make a single hit orally active?
Second, aside from longer duration of action is there any other notable non-subjective differentiators? Is 5-MeO-AMT known to take longer to onset? I've always found that the initial onset with LSD tends to begin within the 15-30 minute range, does 5-MeO-AMT take any longer?
Also, I'd like to ask the same questions again but in regards to DOB in place of 5-MeO-AMT.
Also, are there any other known tryptamines or phenethylamines that are known to be active in doses small enough to absorb onto single hits of blotter? What about AL-LAD, ALD-52, and other Lysergic Acid Analogs?
I'm aware of the blacklight UV test for LSD and will perform it as soon as I get access to a blacklight. But given that the blotter itself is quite dark in colour I'm not convinced that the glow emitted from a small quantity of LSD on the paper would be discernable. Also, is it necessarily known that DOB, non LSD-25 lysergic acid analogs and 5-MeO-AMT are all non-responsive under UV light?
Again, I'm not asking anyone to ID anything for me, what I am asking for is information regarding the differences of these 3 substances, from which I hope to better understand my situation. I'm not an idiot, and don't suppose for a second that someone can through the internet postively ID anything for me, and wouldn't try.
Thanks, any feedback is much appreciated.
bluedolphin
Bluelight Crew
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- Feb 19, 2003
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I've had LSD take from 10 minutes up to almost 2 hours to be noticeable.
And it was most definitely LSD every time.
Sorry I'm not really qualified to answer your entire question though.
And it was most definitely LSD every time.
Sorry I'm not really qualified to answer your entire question though.
gloggawogga
Bluelighter
Some merging with a similar thread and renaming of the title. And lets if we can keep the emphasis on empirical methods for testing LSD, as subjective methods will always be somewhat unreliable.
StuckMojo
Bluelighter
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- Aug 11, 2001
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- 123
Simple test.....If you dropped your mystery liquid and it sucked its 5-meo-amt LOL. If it rocked its lsd. If you can taste the liquid and its has a god awful super raunchy chemical taste its 5-meo-amt...Unless the liquid is like sweet breath drops ugh. If it has little or kind of a almost metalic taste then its LSD. Also lets think which chemical is destroyed faster by external sources. LSD is way more sensitive to light and heat than 5-meo-amt. I can state this as a fact because I accidently left my clear gel-caps filled with 5-meo-amt out in my car in plain sight of the sun while at work when It was 95 degrees outside and then later consumed the pill and had very worthy effects. Try sticking your supposed LSD under a heat lamp for a good 5 hours and see if you still trip...If you do its most likely 5-meo-amt. There are other factors you can throw in such as the source of your chemical (Not always true...I was a punk kid back in the day and had very high quality acid from punk dipshit kids also), the cost (Usually acid now days sells for a pretty penny...Around 10$ a hit...But you never know....Ive seen those 5-meo-amt supposed acid hits go for 3-5$ a hit.). Just tally up all these factors and you should get a pretty accurate if not perfect result for what your mystery compond is. Personally I'd know from the first thing I typed above right off the bat seeing as how ive experienced both many times and could easily tell the difference. #DXM 3 lyfe
fizzacyst
Bluelight Crew
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Short of having a professional test it, or testing yourself via the standard laboratory techniques, you aren't going to know what it is.
If it takes 2+ hours to kick in, and absorption wasn't impeded in any way (in a gelcap? food/liquid in stomach?), there is a pretty good chance it wasn't LSD.
If there is a really strong chemical taste, enough that you know that was a substantial amount of chemical (from an LSD-dose perspective), and you don't -really- fry, then it probably was not LSD.
Also, considering the scarcity, if it seems like you are getting a good deal on the price you should probably be suspicious. Though some are more hooked up than others, so that may not apply.
If it takes 2+ hours to kick in, and absorption wasn't impeded in any way (in a gelcap? food/liquid in stomach?), there is a pretty good chance it wasn't LSD.
If there is a really strong chemical taste, enough that you know that was a substantial amount of chemical (from an LSD-dose perspective), and you don't -really- fry, then it probably was not LSD.
Also, considering the scarcity, if it seems like you are getting a good deal on the price you should probably be suspicious. Though some are more hooked up than others, so that may not apply.
sk8punk151
Bluelighter
I've had liquid that has taste. It's just because some people choose to dilute the LSD with things that have a taste. I've had liquid that taste like alcohol and I have also had liquid in a breath mint dropper that actually tasted like breath mints (very potent to I might add).
hydrobromide
Ex-Bluelighter
sk8punk151 said:
I think the point was 5-MeO-AMT has a unique, bitter chemical taste. No one is going to put something else in the LSD that tastes like 5-MeO-AMT. As for the blacklight test that everyone is mentioning, how much does LSD really glow? Pretty much anything white in color (including powder) glows blue under a blacklight. Is it a different type of glow, or does it only work on liquid and blotters (and then what if the blotter is white)?
Majortrippz
Bluelighter
hydrobromide said:
Recently I tested a vile with a blacklight photon micro-light and the liquid glowed yellow and if you hold it under regular incandesant light it had a blue tint. It was most definitely acid.
The was I believe in ethenol because it tasted like everclear.
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completeki
Bluelighter
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there is a large amount of legitimate liquid going around right now. Hopefully you got some
FisheyeLens
Bluelighter
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gloggawogga said:
Ditto...mine allways last over 12 hours...even small doses take a long time to fade away...course I generally do high doses like 500mics, I'm just that kind of freak...and even after the 16 hour trip I am left a little weird for 3 days then for like 3 weeks I am in a good mood and have the clearer thinking.
hydrobromide said:
This test only works for liquid, blotter won't have any effect due to the paper involved. If it is good lsd, a drop of liquid on a sugar cube will glow 2x-4x brighter than the sugar cube itself (and it glows bright blue, not yellow). It is really easy to tell on the sugar cube because the lsd will give a noticable flourescence beyond the typical glow white objects (like the sugar cube) give under UV light.