the lounge discussion v. september 2016

[Droppersneck]

lol when did I try to weasel out of it?? I think its a solid bet and always have. You know he is polling well in MN now? He is fixing to MAGA

 

[anniegram]

for completeness, that was actually my idea and i take responsibility for it.

i was disappointed that the idea i had for a light-hearted, fun lounge idea turned into the mean-spirited brawl that it did but perhaps i was naive to expect anything else.

alasdair

A thunderdome-Esque game that pits forum memebers against each other to banish a memeber for a month at a time, over and over again. I can't imagine how it went sour.

In theory it might have been fun but it became evident shortly after it started how it was going down.
In the future I don't think games like this will help get things under control, whatever that might mean.

 

[phr]

similar to bambi i dont necessarily want a whole new set of rules and i also believe that admin are on the same page with this. what they do want is for the lounge to operate to a standard that is welcoming to everyone and that the staff team are united and unbiased in enforcing the rules. its pretty simple really?

i feel this needs to be mentioned and only to get you to further understand why were currently in this situation but as a staff member you are supposed to set an example to the fellow members of the standard that is acceptable and unfortunately while you chose to host "games" where unwarranted bans went down and repeatedly bully certain members (eg. stay faded) and in ways that crossed the boundaries of the rules you failed in your role. never in bluelight history has a moderator been enabled to host popularity contests where members vote to see another that is abiding by the rules result in a one month ban. i dont know why you thought that sort of thing could go on forever and not impact the flow of a happy forum? and each morning referring to your bowel movements as a members name, can you not see how this encourages a pack mentality of bullying and members thinking "well if he does it and he's our boss, it must be ok"? this is not the example of a good moderator. there have been multitudes of moderators able to host games or events such as the color wars, facey pasty, comic books, trading cards etc. that everyone was fairly able to participate in and enjoy. this is what is being asked for right now, a unity of community where moderators set a precedent of whats expected socially and in accordance to the blua and lounge guidelines. if you can't or refuse to come to the party on this phro, maybe reddit really is your best option?

...kytnism...

I didn't come up with the ban poll idea. It was voted on at the staff level, then it was voted on at the member level, and then it was finally implemented through votes in as fair a manner as possible. It was not my idea and democracy was put in effect at every level of its implementation. As for SF, I am cool with SF. She even posted in this thread that she is cool with our back and forths. But that's fine, I don't expect you to know how we get along in there, and you clearly do not. I get along well privately, and publicly, with plenty of people I rip into. To give you some examples... waylost, jiggly, cosmic, hell, even droppersneck at the beginning when all I did was try to make fun of him. The only people that seem to take me seriously in there is you, spacejunk, and zeph. And you're all three people I try my best to avoid unless I'm attacked first...

 

[assclass]

for completeness, that was actually my idea and i take responsibility for it.

i was disappointed that the idea i had for a light-hearted, fun lounge idea turned into the mean-spirited brawl that it did but perhaps i was naive to expect anything else.

alasdair

so you wanna revisit the addict or sober question?

 

[kytnism]

I didn't come up with the ban poll idea. It was voted on at the staff level, then it was voted on at the member level, and then it was finally implemented through votes in as fair a manner as possible. It was not my idea and democracy was put in effect at every level of its implementation. As for SF, I am cool with SF. She even posted in this thread that she is cool with our back and forths. But that's fine, I don't expect you to know how we get along in there, and you clearly do not. I get along well privately, and publicly, with plenty of people I rip into. To give you some examples... waylost, jiggly, cosmic, hell, even droppersneck at the beginning when all I did was try to make fun of him. The only people that seem to take me seriously in there is you, spacejunk, and zeph. And you're all three people I try my best to avoid unless I'm attacked first...

zeph, spacejunk and myself are not the only people on the board that believe the current state of the lounge is in need of improvement. this isn't an us against them battle and while you continue to portray that progress wont be made.

...kytnism...

 

[phr]

zeph, spacejunk and myself are not the only people on the board that believe the current state of the lounge is in need of improvement. this isn't an us against them battle and while you continue to portray that progress wont be made.

...kytnism...

I didn't say you three guys are the only people to think that the current state of TL needs improvement. I said you three are the main people that take me seriously in there and apparently have an axe to grind.
Please stop assuming what relationship I have with people in TL and stop assuming I'm behind the offensive content there. That content was there way before I became mod.
I'm all for progress and providing what TL posters want. Each solution I've put forth has addressed both sides.

Believe it or not, I'll be fine with TL however it ends up being.

 

[Droppersneck]

zeph, spacejunk and myself are not the only people on the board that believe the current state of the lounge is in need of improvement. this isn't an us against them battle and while you continue to portray that progress wont be made.

...kytnism...

Now, that is delusional kyt. This is the definition of an Us vs Them situation. You have two distinct camps here with a maybe a couple that can bend either way. Ive checked out officially so I could care less regardless

 

[SS373dOH]

It's difficult to come up with solutions, when the problems at hand aren't clear. What is the agenda, are we trying to make it less offensive, more inviting to new users? Specific goals need to be laid out so we can all work towards a solution.
If it's one or two users crossing the line, smack 'em with the ban-hammer, but the line should be clearly marked. Or is this thread a nutshell for the problems that exist, where it's 25% suggstions and 75% personal attacks and agendas..

 

[swilow]

I'm on the side of those who think the lounge should be dramatically improved or more. For as long as I've been on Bluelight, the lounge has been controversial and a huge consumer of human resources. It sort of boggles the mind that something hasn't been done sooner. I think the reddit thing that droppersneck is relentlessly spamming is actuallly a good thing. The lounge has always had this insular, impenetrable, cliquey feel to it. Exclusive; maybe that is the appeal?

What about people that just wish to be able to socialise with each other and not get involved in repetitive and impeneterable memes and racist/boring remarks? Seriously, the few times that I've read the Lounge, I can make neither heads nor tails of it- it seems like in-jokes and I assure you, from an outsiders perspective, it isn't even funny. Its sheeplike the way that people suddenly change into carbon copies of senior posters who set the culture there. Why is it fair that we MUST retain the status quo of the Lounge when, as it stands, it only services a very small amount of Bluelighters and adds nothing to Bluelight's agenda and possibly turns some people away and does not provide a social forum for people that are not comfortable with constant shit giving and belittlement?

I always thought it was kind of absurd that most sub-forums were 'forced' to have a social thread because the Lounge, as the main social forum, is too hostile for most people. What sort of social forum is too unpleasant and tiresome for most users to actually use? That is unfair to people that do not enjoy giving grieving people shit but still want to socialise.

I can't understand the resistance to change here. People don't seem to be able to provide a reason why they should be able to operate in this manner. What benefit does the lounge actually represent to the notion of hard reduction. Bluelight is not a democracy and I support the admins imposing this on people.

Any time in the past that I (and others) have raised this perspective the cliquey faction steps in to diminish this perspective. Yes, I don't post in the Lounge. You could assume that I therefore don't know what I am talking about- but I don't post in the Lounge because it is a shithole from my reading of it. I've read it and want no part of it, but I do want to be able to chat with friends I have made here. I hope that the higher ups here stay firm and do not budge for the vocal and tiresome minority that consider the Lounge untouchable. You don't own the Lounge and you should have used it in a better manner; any change that is made is solely the responsibility of the persistent crowd of people that have relentlessly dragged the Lounge back to the gutter over and over and over and over again. It is not the admins that are preaching from on high that are to blame; it is the users that constantly revert to nonsense that keep causing these problems. It is not people in 'authority' using their power for kicks that need to be attacked, or should modify their behaviour here.

For me, it would be no loss if it was removed entirely and something that people will actually use is put in place. I'd really like that. In truth, I do not see this eventuating. I think its time that senior staff made a veto decision and stuck with it.

 

[consumer]

What a shitfight of a thread.

Here is a solution. Make a more positive welcoming place where people other than "the lounge regulars" feel they can post. What role does the lounge in its current form fullfill in Bluelights agenda? I have no idea.

If you want to just troll and throw shit at each other then you have your reddit site. Fuck off and use it.

No one is forcing you to use or be a part of BL.

Grabs popcorn.

 

[Lucy Noeno]

the suggestion of two forums is kindred to the "redlight" social experiment. a group of loungers that were banned for repeatedly breaking the rules decided to do something similar to reddit and encouraged bluelighters to join them with the promise of there being no rules, no bannings, no boundaries etc. tldr; noone followed them and those who dropped by the site did so to troll it enraging the creators and seeing it quickly die. this concept is not a new one and is not the sole instance of individuals attempting to divide the community based on personal desire. what is being asked for here is input on how to improve what we already have to suit the needs of the entire community, not handfuls of people with separate visions.

...kytnism...

the redlight saga was a great time in TL history tho.

 

[quiet roar]

What a shitfight of a thread.

Here is a solution. Make a more positive welcoming place where people other than "the lounge regulars" feel they can post. What role does the lounge in its current form fullfill in Bluelights agenda? I have no idea.

If you want to just troll and throw shit at each other then you have your reddit site. Fuck off and use it.

No one is forcing you to use or be a part of BL.

Grabs popcorn.

But why does the Lounge need to be a "positive and welcoming place"?

Why can't those wanting such a place find themselves such a place, and leave TL to itself?

I think TL has been pretty ordinary of late but that's not the point, IMO. The point is why does it bother people if there is a sub forum that they don't like? Why can't they just ignore it?

 

[Bomboclat]

Have we discussed this enough to get admin feedback? I appreciate the amount of constructive (and non constructive) criticism in here but without a real plan of action this all falls to the wayside.

Alasdairm, what is the future of the lounge? I think you've given members and non-members plenty time to discuss this.

 

[SS373dOH]

I can speak for the minority that are BL'ers that are new to TL, on feeling welcome/unwelcomed. I've only been posting there for a month or two, but I never felt ANY sense of unwelcomeness. Sure somebody might make a counter point, or tease you, but we're all adults here, we should be able to handle these scenarios. There is a comedic flow to TL that some new users might find difficult to jump into, GL'rs especially, which can only lead to even more roasting, but now the targets won't being willing participants that understand the schtick.. That's the problem I forsee with opening it up publicly.

 

[zephyr]

I think proving who's right and who's is wrong is most important here. If we did have two forums we could solve all issues. The new forum would be a cool place for people that never contributed anything of comedic value to tl to chill and have a relaxed time chit chatting.

Browsed reddit. You are being very two faced . You can try playing different sides against each other to make yourself amused but its very obvious what you are doing and really childish.

 

[Bomboclat]

Zephyr. Stop.

How is that constructive here? You got beef? Take it elsewhere.
You should know by now that antagonizing Drippers is not going to end well for either of you, so why do it?

If you can't help yourself, at least do us all a favor and keep it out of what should be a constructive thread.

 

[dopemaster]

there's no reason that, for now, this thread can't fulfill that purpose.

alasdair

I don't see why everyone is rushing my man Alladin here. I just want to say thanks for keeping this boat above water for so long.

I get some people miss posting in the lounge but there are other forums and you got your tc, your skype, your this and that if you really need to talk to loungers that bad but I think we are due for some changes.

Everything changes to adapt to new circumstances just like people as they evolve, adapt, and grow throughout life. The lounge was headed downhill fast and I think Alladin took proper action in this case and really just in time because it was getting quite nasty.

Now that the problems have been exposed, lets just keep working towards a solution instead of a quick fix.

That is just my two cents but I say we support the staff because they haven't let us down yet here and we are all responsible for what we sow for that is what we reap for lack of better words.

I just think it is all going to work out and this is just the time for positive ideas and to work with one another so once again maybe some unity here.

 

[alasdairm]

^ thanks.

But why does the Lounge need to be a "positive and welcoming place"?

because it's part of a larger community and it has little value to that greater community as a deliberately and aggressively non-inclusive playground for a small number of participants.

not least, the ownership and senior staff of the site would like it to be a more positive, welcoming place.

Have we discussed this enough to get admin feedback? I appreciate the amount of constructive (and non constructive) criticism in here but without a real plan of action this all falls to the wayside.

Alasdairm, what is the future of the lounge? I think you've given members and non-members plenty time to discuss this.

i need to read and digest the feedback here to ensure it gets the attention it deserves. as i indicated in my announcement, next steps would likely include:

- rewriting The Lounge guidelines to clearly lay out expectations.
- review the forum moderator team and make changes if/as necessary.
- making The Lounge visible to all users and available for posting to all registered users

that should take a day or so. maybe two.

thanks to (almost ) everybody who provided their thoughts.

alasdair

 

[Bomboclat]

Thank you for the information, Ali. Just hoping for a bit more transparency and participation on your end but I understand you have your plate a bit full. I hope it does not take you too long to set things up as this conversation is getting a bit circular and tiresome.

I also hope that you would include lounge members in the re-writing of rules as plenty members in this thread have suggested. Not doing so would fail to demonstrate the staff's abilities to recognize and respect the wants and desires of community members.

 

[alasdairm]

yep. thanks.

alasdair