the lounge discussion v. september 2016

[alasdairm]

I eread phr's response andxall I have to say is he seems to think tl is just about himself and a handful of his biddies.

It isnt.

where is this quote from? i don't see it in this thread.

No, it's not about me and my buddies. It's about the 10-15 regular posters that post 95 plus percent of the posts. It's about everyone except the handful of people on senior staff that DON'T have a problem with offensive posts and TL as is. And those handful of senior staffers are not in the top posters. Alasdairm was talking about the exact numbers earlier, and considering how top heavy TL post counts are, those numbers are weaker than jiggly's gambling winnings. Number 70th in TL? Number 45? Come on, man. SKL was 33rd, and that was partly due to his heroin run when he was on here 24/7, I bet...

there's no point in having a discussion if you're going to just dismiss stuff out of hand.

the absolute numbers are irrelevant - the point is that some of the people criticising senior staff for never participating in the lounge, participate even less frequently themselves...

alasdair

 

[MikeOekiM]

over the past two years, spacejunk is the 70th most prolific poster in the lounge (moreso than, for example, lounge regulars max power and mikeoekim).

my rise was just as fast as my fall. i havent been relevant since 2013

 

[CosmicG]

my rise was just as fast as my fall. i havent been relevant since 2013

It's all good MikeO. I've never been relevant. Not even once.

 

[Blue_Phlame]

I can't believe I read all of dm's post #122 on my lunch break. I've still got pages of posts to catch up on. Probably won't even get through everything tonight, I've got lots of other stuff to get to irl too.

 

[phr]

the point is that some of the people criticising senior staff for never participating in the lounge, participate even less frequently themselves...

alasdair

I don't know who those people are. The regular people that criticize senior staff are active posters in TL... lysis, droppers, bombo, owle etc.

 

[Droppersneck]

Yeah, I already said that and he typed a long whiny post that didn't make sense but had two handful of quotes.

I've suggested that in the past, and it was shot down. TL as we recently knew it, where we can call something gay or call someone a Eurofag and not have it be homophobic or whatever, is over. You want to make a Consuela joke? Nope, not in TL. Enjoy your ban.

GL'ers are back in because TL being private, which apparently senior staffers thought was the case for over a year until they finally realized that it wasn't and hurriedly made it private, was just addressing the symptoms. The symptoms of what? The main issue anyone has with TL is the content being posted, and that content offending them. Now, the 10-15 people that make up 95+% of the posts in TL have no such issues, but they're not the ones calling the shots, are they?

-------------------------

I swear to God, if they really wanted to test the theory that people don't care about TL's offensive content, they'd leave TL private as is and let us continue with the current rules/state of TL as it was 2 days ago. Then, they'd make another site wide public social forum, held to higher standards, and just do their thing in there. Then revisit that in half a year and let's see which is dead... See how many TL posters stuck to the private forum vs the new public ones... See how many new posters the public forum has... They won't do this, simply because it takes a double pair of tude sized TNW's to go head to head with the cesspool of offensive material that TL is. And because their new public higher standard forum would be dead. Hell, it pretty much already happened to the other regional social forums.

Wanna give this a go, alasdairm? What do you have to lose?

If the new public forum is more popular, shut TL down and/or merge them.

Why won't we do this??? The public forum can be for the posters that favor reform and the private can be for the old. Total post count wins after like 6 months?

 

[Bomboclat]

Because that's just as much of a solution as dropping the lounge and going over to your precious Reddit page.

 

[Droppersneck]

Dammit bombo quit being such a sass wagon. That is a fair suggestion, that way the people that are right, ultimately win. And don't bad mouth the page :x

 

[Bomboclat]

I'm not bad mouthing the page or even trying to sass you, drops. Don't be so emotional

I'm just trying to stay on task here and I don't see jumping ship (for your benefit as the leader of the Reddit page) as a real solution.

 

[phr]

Because that's just as much of a solution as dropping the lounge and going over to your precious Reddit page.

That kinda is a solution, though. People who don't like TL's content say that's why we don't get any new posters... The handful of active posters make up the vast majority of all posts, they're offensive, they're cliquey, and the barrier of entry is too high for new people.

That wouldn't be case at all with the new forum. It would be public, it wouldn't be offensive, there won't be a clique, and the barrier of entry will initially be the same for everyone.

It'll only be run for 6 months and then we'll see where they both stand.


It's really not difficult to set up and it's not like anything will be lost. If that other forum ends up being popular, great, TL problem solved. If not, well, we've learned from the experiment and people were proved wrong.

Basically it gives all of TL cirtics a chance to put their money where their mouth is. They could be the change...
But of course it's not going to happen, because it is my opinion that TL critics want to take away what they don't agree with as much as they want to solve the problem.

 

[Bomboclat]

Phrozen you'd run the lounge into the ground just to prove a point. Nothing against you personally, and I think you haven't been a bad moderator taking into consideration the many mods we've had over the years, but your stubborn behavior is not going to help the lounge here.

I propose a solution:

- make the lounge public again; require greenlighters to reach bluelighter status prior to joining but they can still view the forum
- assign senior moderators to the forum that are active lounge members and have been for longer than they've been a moderator
- re-work the lounge rules to better fit the community and the BLUA
- only allow members to post in the lounge once they have read all rules and agreed to them (same system as BLUA)
- clean house if necessary
- Ask for the contribution of lounge members in the creation of the new lounge rules, or at least allow for feedback

As a community based subforum, I believe it is imperative that the rules and regulators reflect the wants and desires of the community members. Moreover, moderators should not be in place to further their own agenda. Rather, they should be around to help further the communities, set up through community rules and regulations.

 

[phr]

TL regulars just want to able to continue on as is.

They don't want any new rules, hell, you remember how much shit we took a year ago when all we did was just clarify the rules? I had to stress over and over that there are no new rules. And that was just a shit show. Hell, TL regulars don't even want to post ON TOPIC. We came up with a specific prefix and nobody seems to want to use it, even in the theme threads like the photo thread. I was straight up banning people because they didn't want to post on topic!

People just want every thread to have a loose them and basically post as if it's ttys once a conversation starts. And they want to post with whatever language they want.

New rules aren't going to attract new people... Seriously, if you guys think that'll work. Start the new forum alongside TL, create new rules and we'll see which forum takes off. Either way, nobody loses here. After 6 months we'll evaluate and shutter one of the forums if there's a clear winner. It'll be a much smoother transition than this has proven to be.

 

[kytnism]

Phrozen you'd run the lounge into the ground just to prove a point. Nothing against you personally, and I think you haven't been a bad moderator taking into consideration the many mods we've had over the years, but your stubborn behavior is not going to help the lounge here.

I propose a solution:

- make the lounge public again; require greenlighters to reach bluelighter status prior to joining but they can still view the forum
- assign senior moderators to the forum that are active lounge members and have been for longer than they've been a moderator
- re-work the lounge rules to better fit the community and the BLUA
- only allow members to post in the lounge once they have read all rules and agreed to them (same system as BLUA)
- clean house if necessary
- Ask for the contribution of lounge members in the creation of the new lounge rules, or at least allow for feedback

As a community based subforum, I believe it is imperative that the rules and regulators reflect the wants and desires of the community members. Moreover, moderators should not be in place to further their own agenda. Rather, they should be around to help further the communities, set up through community rules and regulations.

i love this suggestion. good job bambi. i also loved zephs performance reviewal idea? performance reviewal is imperative in any job, volunteer or paid and keeps people in their positions humble, communicating with their superiors and hard working to achieve positive results. i also suggest it be made clear to anyone taking on a moderators position that the rules are across the board and friendships, alliances or enemies are irrelevant when enforcing them and if that is something you're not willing or able to do, then you're probably not the correct candidate for the role?

...kytnism...

 

[Bomboclat]

TL regulars just want to able to continue on as is.

They don't want any new rules, hell, you remember how much shit we took a year ago when all we did was just clarify the rules? I had to stress over and over that there are no new rules. And that was just a shit show. Hell, TL regulars don't even want to post ON TOPIC. We came up with a specific prefix and nobody seems to want to use it, even in the theme threads like the photo thread. I was straight up banning people because they didn't want to post on topic!

People just want every thread to have a loose them and basically post as if it's ttys once a conversation starts. And they want to post with whatever language they want.

New rules aren't going to attract new people... Seriously, if you guys think that'll work. Start the new forum alongside TL, create new rules and we'll see which forum takes off. Either way, nobody loses here. After 6 months we'll evaluate and shutter one of the forums if there's a clear winner. It'll be a much smoother transition than this has proven to be.

I didnt say add new rules, I said re-work to better fit the community and the BLUA. There's a (subtle) difference there. I think the current lounge rules actually cover most of the things that are problematic with the lounge quite clearly, however they seem to not be taken seriously and thus need to be re-written in a way that is more fitting of the communities wants and their abilities to follow them. Its not a task that would be taken on by one person alone, that defeats the purpose of it being re-worked to fit the community.

 

[assclass]

TL regulars just want to able to continue on as is.

not really.

i dont like the lounge that votes people out. i dont like getting b& because I got fucked up and didn't watch my words and offended some butthurt dude.

im not sure what the best way to attract and retain cool people who are funny and wanna talk shit, but i know the current course ain't taking us there.

 

[zephyr]

Another suggestion is to put a link back to mobile site underneath where the link to the desktop version is.

This would make it a lot easier and quicker to switch to and from mobile to edit mistakes in posts and post in polls etc.

A lot of people post in mobile as its easier to read on phones but its difficult to put in content that is more suited to the desktop version..


Ill just have to say this then will gladly get off phr's balls. Hes got the message but has not listened so banging on about it more isnt going to make a difference now anyway.

Phr and his little core group of miscreants are mainly himself, droppers and lysis. They dont seem to let things go. Shit stirring, whining and stupid boring sjw complaining. Its them. That go off topic and make any conversation pointless.

No they arent the only ones but are ringleaders who have that stupid pack mentality. Get over yourselves or bugger off to who cares where and stay there.

That probably didnt help matters but its obvious you lot will not change and make things worse when the lounge reopens by not letting this temporary shut down go.

Well, what happens now is up to the staff so hope it goes well and see you on the flip side! Im looking forward to change and seeing a bigger crowd in the lounge.

 

[Bomboclat]

i love this suggestion. good job bambi. i also loved zephs performance reviewal idea? performance reviewal is imperative in any job, volunteer or paid and keeps people in their positions humble, communicating with their superiors and hard working to achieve positive results. i also suggest it be made clear to anyone taking on a moderators position that the rules are across the board and friendships, alliances or enemies are irrelevant when enforcing them and if that is something you're not willing or able to do, then you're probably not the correct candidate for the role?

...kytnism...

Thank you, Kytn.

I agree that position review should be included in the administrative side of things moving forward, however I am unsure how we can insure checks and balances there. Who's not to say the lounge moderators/smods/admin wouldn't just out someone they didn't agree with, a la Owlie or OTW? (I understand there was a conflict with COTB in the case of Busty's removal but I know its goes deeper than that).

 

[Droppersneck]

I think proving who's right and who's is wrong is most important here. If we did have two forums we could solve all issues. The new forum would be a cool place for people that never contributed anything of comedic value to tl to chill and have a relaxed time chit chatting.

 

[kytnism]

Thank you, Kytn.

I agree that position review should be included in the administrative side of things moving forward, however I am unsure how we can insure checks and balances there. Who's not to say the lounge moderators/smods/admin would just out someone they didn't agree with, a la Owlie or OTW? (I understand there was a conflict with COTB in the case of Busty's removal but I know its goes deeper than that).

i too am not sure exactly how it would operate but would possibly take a model from our own workplaces and tweak it to suit the needs of the website? i also wondered how we could go about preventing situations such as unfair removal or personal critiques but figure if put to the board of moderators on a strictly professional standpoint surely a result of fairness and balance can be achieved? I'm not sure if you were on staff back when moderators had a quota of moderator actions or participation in their own forums that was expected of you to retain their position on staff? but it seemed to keep participation at a high level and those who did not fill that need were more than happy to voluntarily step down with the knowledge that if they wanted to return at a time where they had more availability they were welcome to. maybe something such as that could be bought back into effect?

...kytnism...

 

[Bomboclat]

I think proving who's right and who's is wrong is most important here. If we did have two forums we could solve all issues. The new forum would be a cool place for people that never contributed anything of comedic value to tl to chill and have a relaxed time chit chatting.

You go ahead and get started on that drips, we'll follow your lead.