The Limitations of Electronic Music

o0psy Daisy

o0psy Daisy

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Oct 16, 2002
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I subject my father to at least a few good hours of electronic music, most of which happens to be psytrance and goa trance, sometimes breaks and cheesy cheese every time we take a long road trips, which is about 6 to 8 times a year for the past four years. Poor old man :) Recently, on a trip down to FL, we had a debate about the limitations of electronic music as he reached down to turn switch off the current music.

One of his argument was that because the music is made using machines, any of the sounds can be duplicated by any competant artist, therefore while the original artists' music is well, original... people after him can copy his sounds given that the machines are the same and this is why a lot of electronic music sounds the same. It is simply not as good as the music that is made with string, wood, or brass instruments because the human hand-- apt to make mistakes but also having the ability to put human emotion and skill through the instrument-- is making that music.

Anyone with a trained ear can hear how the rhythm in a rock song gets a teesny bit quicker as the song plays through, whereas a constant bass in electronic music is pretty standard. This is the nature of human vs machine: human (natural) imperfection vs programmed perfection.

Now, I know next to nothing about music production, but I do know that different software and different synths can out put amazingly original sounds. Humans still tell the machine what to do and how to do it, so I disagree with my father in that there is less emotion and creativity in an electonically made song (given that the song is genuinely good), but I do think that sounds can easily be duplicated thus the reason many tracks sound the same because there are only so many sounds that can be created using the machines.

What are your thoughts? Producers, take a hit!


Daisy
 
I dislike most electronic music in general for the same reasons as your father... it is bland to me, without emotion, a good musician or singer can carry the emotion with that sole instrument or voice, but electronic music seems to have near no, or very low emotion, all i hear in the majority of electronic music is: slow slow slow a bit faster music a bit faster a bit faster FAST FAST CLIMAX and then boom slow, repeat 1000X for 1000000 songs, and in my mind becoming a master of an instrument is a far greater achievement then being able to make great electronic music, the only time I really like electronic things are when they are combined with real instruments ala Radiohead, The Flaming Lips, and recently galactic's new stuff.... I also feel that "hitting a button" to make a sound or clicking a mouse to add something to a song does not have the same emotional input of the heavy hammering of a string or the slow bend of a guitar string, both of which can be done MANY MANY ways... anyways, electronic sound, in my final opinion is infinitely bland and uninventive especially with so many wonderful "real" musicians alive today...

ah a final example i think when a guitarist like Leo Kotke can express emotion using only a guitar and no vocals that is so much more amazing and skillful then the best button tapping electronic "musician"
 
there are innovators and people who may copy what they have done in every genre of music, not just electronica...

but i will say that the fusion of rock and electronica (ala sound tribe sector 9) bridges the gap and is pretty limitless in terms of where they could take their sound...

electronica music is limitless because really anything can be used and turned into a sample for your track, and thats where the genious of it is...not everyone can copy a sound I made, or make a bassline I did...they can try but the specific way a producer tweaks their sound (should) make it their own...

i dont think any music has limitations except in the minds of the creators...

you just have to open your mind and realize that any sound that is put together for the purposes of harmony is music, and that people need to not limit their perspective as to only organic instruments having emotion...

emotion can be put into synthetic music, at least i think...just open ur mind to new sounds, feelings, and emotion
 
mushman1 said:
ah a final example i think when a guitarist like Leo Kotke can express emotion using only a guitar and no vocals that is so much more amazing and skillful then the best button tapping electronic "musician"
Click to expand...

Producing electronic music is far far far more than button tapping. There are a ton of producers out there who have a very unique sound because they have mastered the art of generating sounds electronically over many years. To me, tweaking a synth is no different than "heavy hammering of a string or the slow bend of a guitar string". Furthermore, there is the careful tuning of the compressor/EQ/FX that takes years to perfect and is usually unique from artist to artist. I read in an interview of a producer of over 15 years that he is still improving his craft and is always learning.

I find that non-electronic music sounds much more bland. There are a near infinite number of sounds that a synthesizer can create and an instrument has a pretty limited range of sound.

You also have to consider the fact that non-electronic music has been around since the dawn of man and electronic music just came about last century. We are by no means at the limit of electronic music, its still evolving. Listen to Airdrawndagger by Sasha, he does some incredible tweaking in there and doesn't adhere to the formula you mentioned earlier. It is a great example of how unique of a sound and emotion you can create electronically.

Discuss... :)
 
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I dislike most electronic music for the same reason. However I am a HUGE fan of some IDM bands that push the envelope with success. Emotion can be VERY present in electronic music if done right (check out M83).

I think the wave of the future is the combination of electronic and organic. Check out the Notwist's Neon Golden. In my opinion its one of the most groudbreaking records to come out in a long time.
 
This "electronic music has no emotion" argument is silly. What people really mean when they say that is that it has no emotion for them. Does anybody really believe that the legions of fans and producers of electronic music don't feel any emotion when they listen to it? It's not an inherent quality of the genre, it's just the fact that it doesn't do it for some people.

Also, that whole argument about everything sounding the same, and it being
"uninventive" or whatever is just the fact that the vast majority of people haven't really listened to much of it. A classical music fan who never listens to rock music isn't going to be able to tell the difference between, say, punk and metal, it's just a bunch of lound and fast noise with a bunch of yelling, but to any fan of rock music, it's night and day.

And about the whole "easier to copy" argument, how many styles get ripped off in rock music? I mean, have you heard how many bands there are on the radio that sound exactly like Blink-182? I'm not talking about a passing similarity, I'm talking about everything from guitar tone to chord progressions. There are countless other examples throughout the history of music. When something is successful, there are always imitators, some better than others. This is a fact of life in any genre.

Also, this isn't really related to any of the above, but Leo Kottke is the shit :D
 
"I find that non-electronic music sounds much more bland. There are a near infinite number of sounds that a synthesizer can create and an instrument has a pretty limited range of sound."

non electronic is much more bland? listen to radioheads guitarist's and try and tell me the guitar is a limited instrument.... as i said i dislike MOST electronic music, i find some can have emotion, and some can have more then button tapping, but the majority is bland....
 
mushman1 said:
...when a guitarist like Leo Kotke can express emotion using only a guitar and no vocals that is so much more amazing and skillful then the best button tapping electronic "musician"
Click to expand...

that is entirely a matter of opinion.

alasdair
 
everything about music, whether it be skill or quality is purely opinion unless you are discussing the equipment used or something tangible like that, he asked for an opinion and I gave him one... and btw if anyone wants to change my mind and show me that electronic music can be amazingly emotional tell me something to buy and I will...
 
mushman1 said:
"I find that non-electronic music sounds much more bland. There are a near infinite number of sounds that a synthesizer can create and an instrument has a pretty limited range of sound."

non electronic is much more bland? listen to radioheads guitarist's and try and tell me the guitar is a limited instrument.... as i said i dislike MOST electronic music, i find some can have emotion, and some can have more then button tapping, but the majority is bland....
Click to expand...

What I meant was that the guitar has a pretty limited range of sound compared to the synthesizer. Anyway, it all comes down to what sparks your emotions more... thats what music is all about. I personally don't care how the song was made as long as it makes me feel something and isn't a complete rip off of somebody else's work.
 
mushman1 said:
everything about music, whether it be skill or quality is purely opinion unless you are discussing the equipment used or something tangible like that, he asked for an opinion and I gave him one... and btw if anyone wants to change my mind and show me that electronic music can be amazingly emotional tell me something to buy and I will...
Click to expand...

my comment was posted as much because of your tone as the content of your post.

you used the term "button tapping" and placed the word "musician" in inverted comments (suggesting, i assume that you do not view electronic music producers as musicians at all?)

do you view all electronic music producers as mere button tappers and not musicians?

frankly, i don't care if musician uses two yoghurt pots and a piece of string - the net effect is what's important. if it moves me, who cares how it was produced. 'instrument snobbery' is, well, it's boring.

i'm a fan of many musically genres. electronic music has brought me to tears, given me goosebumps and put a wider smile on my face more times than i can remember...

as s p a c e d wrote, the whole "electronic music has no soul" argument is, frankly, tired. sigh.

alasdair
 
Enjoying music is as much of a conscious choice as anything. It takes a willingness, in some cases, to explore the feel a bit.

Repetitive?

I say captivating, relentless, etc.

Some electronica is perfect precisely because of the precision.
 
^ that's exactly why i love the music that i do. the genius precision of every placed note compounded with the emotion that i feel when i listen to it is simply amazing for me, and i have an inkling that every musician knows when he's throwing his "soul" into his work.


Daisy
 
as I said, please god give me something "moving" and i will on the spot change my mind and agree with you, I have, on a whole heard nothing that moves me, maybe i don't get it at all, or maybe not, I would love to be proved wrong as I love to expand the musical genres that I listen too
 
...in the ear of the beholder...

I n'joy all kinds of styles of music, like jazz, soul, R'n'B, rock'n'roll, hip hop, folk music, classical and loads of others styles. But im mainly into electronic dance music, and i specialy love Detroit Techno n House music.

But to hear that some people claim that electronic music dosent have emotions or soul makes me sad. And makes me think that they must be narow minded people, who need to open up their eyes and take of their 'blinkers' so they can broaden their perspectives.

Just because you like one style of music dosent meen that another style is whith out a soul...



So to you who think that electronc music is whith out a soul...
Just remember that Music is what it is in the ear of the beholder.
 
There are so many genres out there I have no idea which one would "move"you or whatever, and quite frankly it doesnt matter. The point is that it moves US, and by the simple fact that it moves us makes it emotional. We dont have to convert you. I dont care if you think electronic music has no emotion or is too bland, because to be honest I have long tired of the 5 peice band sound, so I guess we're "even". What is rock music? Its a drummer, a bass guitarist, rythm guitar, lead, and a singer. Every tune they write uses those same fucking instruments...woo hoo a total of 5 channels. When I write jungle I've got at least 6 different drum "sets" (breaks), 4-7 bass sounds that *I* designed personally (I didnt have it all ready to go from a factory, like a musical instrument), leads, fx, vocals, all tediously produced and designed to fit that one specific track. Electronic producers MAKE their own instruments, it isn't handed to them on a silver platter. You can just pick up a guitar and play it, and it will always sound like a guitar. You give me an FM7 or Absynth and I can sit there designing every aspect of that sound imaginable, making it sound like a spaceship or a cartoon boink or a bongo or a *gasp* guitar. If anything is limited, its acoustic music. And you dont have to try to convince me otherwise, because I *know* electronic music and I know band music, and I definately know which of the two is the most limited.
 
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