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The legalization of Heroin

Fine. I didn't take the time to flesh out my arguments with background information - go ahead and dismiss my points. It really makes no difference to me.
If you'd rather discuss it with somebody whose willing to turn simple opinion posts into massive, detail heavy analysis posts that nobody will read, go ahead. Knock yourself out.
 
Originally posted by Cokeboy:

You might be one of the few who could go from daily addiction to non-user, but there's an excellent chance that you'd let everything else fall apart first.

How fucking true this sentence is; I don't think most people will ever know until they experience it or see someone experience it.
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Cimora:
1) I dont know any1 that doesnt use drug cos their illegal. Evry1 i know who doesnt use drugs doesnt use em cos their scared on the possible effects and the unknown.
If it is legal, then people will assume it is not unknown and the effects are okay.
2) Amsterdam. Less people smoke pot, less do heroin. Ergo legality = less users.
Umm...are you sure? I've heard some argue otherwise, but can't be certain. It seems to be just that people don't make such a big deal about it there. Even if it is true, 1 example does not prove a theory.
3) Australia. Canada. UK. None of these places has seen a rise in use despite decriminization or defacto decriminization of possession of pot.
Here in Australia (except SA...not sure how that one's going) it hasn't been decriminalised, it is just enforced differently. Cops tend to use their discretion and often won't even bother confiscating a joint. I'm not sure that Aus is a good example anyway as we are swamped in weed, it's almost as popular as alcohol in a lot of areas.
4) Alcohol prohibition. Approx the same number of people used alcohol during the prohibition, except there was more violence and crime related.
5) Heroin trials in europe. Heroin clinics and distribution techniques have been useful for curbing harm while maintianing numbers. Most legal heroin laws only let former users buy from legit sources eg u need a drug test first.
I thought there were problems with the Swiss trials. While the INCB and DPNA are notoriously anti-drug, it is interesting to read the criticism of Swiss Heroin trials.
Given the above, I am still in favour of not turning drug users into crimimals. It just makes no sense to me as I don't believe telling people "no" without backing it up with sound arguments ever works. Arguments that the recipient can understand and agree with. So far, this has not happened with the drug debate. How many people have converted from pro-drugs to anti-drugs? SFA I would guess...some do because they lose someone close, but a lot of these people say the tragedy could have been prevented if drugs were legal.
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Australia = all states but two have decrimalised (NSW, and WA). Australian states may have high rates of use, but they have not increased since decriminalisation.
Canada = all i meant was that convictions per arrest in canada are low which is approximately the defination of decriminisation. Ive never lived here though.
netherlands = the numbers i drew from are the national goverment researched figure on use. Teen age use is up, but overall use is down compared to before prohibition. I dont have a link because i got these figures from newpaper articles not direct.
The Swiss = okay, hear ill admit in no expert. Ive heard some of the experiments in europe went favourably, but i certainly dont have the figures.
Still i dont understand why the burden of proof lies with me, you are making the claim that use increases with legality, id like to see at least some kind of argument towards its validity, some kind of proof ....
My challenge stands. So i have a few countires where things went well you say, what does that prove you say? Well it proves i have SOME evidence to back up my point of veiw(at the least holland is a case in point) and so far you have none.
some over none = Legalisation wins.
Come on... surely u can do better than attack my argument... wheres your argument or proof?
And dont give me any assumptions, or subjectivities... this proves nothing. just because you perceive the law as a mandate for acceptable behaviour doesnt mean every1 else does - i know i dont and i know plenty of others that dont, not that thats an argument cos its subjective as the first one!
[ 07 November 2002: Message edited by: Cimora ]
 
If opium were legal, there'd be no heroin (maybe, but very little)

On the same level, if cocaine were legal, there'd be no crack.
 
Just a quick bit of info...

A study done by the the Cato institute indicates that 80% of all heroin overdoses are a result of the illegality of the drug. Which means 80% of overdoses would not occur if it was legal. That's lives saved.

Before heroin was made illegal, a junky could maintain a daily habit for the equivalent of about one hour's low paid work a day.
 
^^
Nope. Heroin was used at this time as well as morphine and opium.

I wrote an essay for a 3rd year sociology course about the social processes which led up to heroin being made illegal if you're interested in what things were like before it was made illegal and what things actually influenced heroin legislation in the US and worldwide. It has info on the Harrison act that Ebeneezer referred to earlier as well as other legislation that has led to the current situation.

I'll put it up somewhere if people are interested enough, but it is a uni paper which used the heroin issue to illustrate a broader view of the function of law in society, so there will be a bit of stuff in there that most people won't be interested in. It is however fully referenced and will be useful if people want to broaden their knowledge of why this drug is illegal and use it to argue for it's legalisation. It's about 3000 words long iirc.

I fully support the legalisation of heroin. Properly implemented, this legislation would mean that heroin addiction would become, at worst, as damaging as alcoholism, and probably much less. Lives could be saved and rebuilt. There are people dieing because of these laws which are built on fuck all, and it's one of the most serious public health issues that faces the world.
 
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Wow this is an old thread.

There is a legal form of heroin, and it's called methadone. Sure, I'd LOVE to see possession and distribution of heroin legalized, but for some reason, I just don't see that happening anytime soon. Also, it if were legal, you'd have a very high % of the US addicted to dope.

As a junky, fuck yeah I'd like heroin to be legalized, but if you really think of the full picture, it really wouldn't be a good idea, would it?

Just imagine though, walking into the local CVS and picking up a couple grams of some pure #4 heroin HCL. 8o... Keep dreaming.... =D
 
^ And yes I'm aware that methadone is nothing like heroin... so don't start flaming me for that. They are both very very potent opiate agonists...
 
vicodelicious said:
Just imagine though, walking into the local CVS and picking up a couple grams of some pure #4 heroin HCL. 8o... Keep dreaming.... =D [/B]
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Vico, it's such a beautiful concept it brings a tear to my eye. But, if you think pan-handling outside your local Walgreens is bad now, just imagine....8(
 
^^
If heroin was legal people wouldn't have to panhandle for dope money because it would be so much cheaper.

That's part of the whole point. It would probably be cheaper than alcohol.
 
^ I seriously doubt it. If you can't afford a 40 of Old English, you're not going to be able to plop down the bills for a few grams of H... it's a nice thought though.
 
"but if you really think of the full picture, it really wouldn't be a good idea, would it? " -Vicodelicious

No, please explain in depth.

Many take time to ponder the legalization of marijuana and how great it would be and such and such. Why shouldn't ALL drugs be legalized?
 
the problem with doing drugs is that over time, you need more and more because of tolerances. it's never going to stop. even if you don't increase doses over short periods of time, over long peroids that dose loses effect, and needs to be increased. with a variety of drugs this will lead to liver problems, and other negative effects on the body from having such a high volume of drugs flowing through the system. your body is fighting back against it.

sober living is the way to go. i don't see drug use as wrong, but i see it as temporary though. everyones "temporary" use is going to be a different length of time, but generally why would someone in a healthy state of mind be using drugs daily. when i read posts about people wanting to use them daily it give me the impression that they assume this for the rest of their life (talking about affordability, how they can live their life fine doing it now). these conditions will change, and justifiably they can in sober living too, but which has the greater chance of happiness and success? the guy who shoots everyday to stay happy, or the guy who used self discipline and self-evaluation as a drug to achieve happiness.

edit : so i don't get flamed, this is referring to the first few posts on this thread and is referring specifically to daily heroine use.
 
"why would someone in a healthy state of mind be using drugs daily" -hanky8r

For fun, to handle stress and/or depression, experimentation, for desired effects, change perspective, look at things differently, curiosity, for science or experience. So one can say "yea i did that". To each his own (reason).

"which has the greater chance of happiness and success? the guy who shoots everyday to stay happy, or the guy who used self discipline and self-evaluation as a drug to achieve happiness." -hanky8r

Thats actually a dumb thing to say. It's not chance at all who achieves success and happiness. They both achieve happiness and success you dolt! The guy shoots everyday to stay happy... so he's always happy! The guy using "self discipline and self evaluation", what a load of shit! The guy shooting uses just as much discipline and evaluation. There is no ONE set way to achieve happiness you communist (to be taken lightly)! But if these drug free man uses these methods to achieve happiness, he is JUST as happy as the mainliner. And success is subjective. If one finds their life entirely revolved around the needle and the chemical, and can do it in an alley, their life is 100% success and perfect for them. We all have our thing. YOU can't tell us what should make us happy and successful. (you really come off as a commie here....)

I don't have a problem with your view, but your shortsight, and its not so much a problem if it wasnt so comical! You basically said "okay who do you think gets to work on time better, the man who takes the train to work or the man that drives?"
 
It is true depending on which side of the fence you are seated. People who are already addicted to heroin would be trumps if heroin were legalized. People who otherwise might be tempted by heroin remain sheltered from it due the criminalisation of this drug. I like opiates but have only tried tramadol and dihydrocodeine really. I could be easily seduced by heroin but the high cost placed such a tiny amount of sewer-brown has seriously put me off. Well that and the incredibly one-sided argument society places against its usage. I would however like to get a methadone habit but it is not available in the UK unless you are already addicted to heroin. However I am only 22 so even if I wait 5 years i'll still only be 27. What is the hurry to get addicted to the hardest most addictive drugs on the planet??
 
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Forgive me...

Forgive me if I repeat another's thoughts here as I admittedly do not have enough time right nowto devote my full attention to this thread but Ithink it is a very important subject and would like to chime in [I WILL read it in its entierty later].

First, the idea should be "RElegalization" as heroin was originally a legal substance in all nations including the US. The "Drug War" in itself is a farce and PURE hyperbole intent on waging a viscious propaganda war on a largely unsuspecting puvblic. Most are simply drawn to headlines and rarely consider a subject fully. If they did they would perhaps find themselves astounded with the huge amount of hypocrisy and wasted resources that result from this totally failed initiative.

How can anyone hope to legislate morality?

I have to sign off now but hope to continue later...
 
that would be strange as hell, it will never occur unfortunately. All drugs legal, going to the supermarket and walking down the drugs isle (tho it would probly be kept behind the counter) packs of joints, e in those thin pop-out containers, every dose of H (and other IV drugs) come with a cheap one-time use needle (would reduce AIDS and HIV among users) etc. Even weirder, can you image them having comercials for shit on TV, or maybe it'd be banned like tobacco commercials, and then they'd have adds for different companies that sell methadone like with nicarete and such
 
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