• 💊 OTHER DRUGS 💊 Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads 1 Notable Threads 2
    Dangerous Combos Addiction Support
    Emergency Services Benzo Guide v.1
    Addiction Stories Scary Case Studies
    Biology, Pharmacology & Drugs 101
  • Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Kratom The Kratom Megathread

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think that kratom is an amazing miracle plant. I started taking kratom last night to help me come off a sizable IV heroin habit. Kratom has taken away 75% of the WD. The fact that I am even here on my computer typing this rather than curled up in bed is a testament to amazing it is. In addition to helping with withdrawal, I find the mental effects more "healing" than other detox drugs like suboxone. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of suboxone but I still look at subs as a "hard" opoiod drug, in that they induce that purely addictive escapist buzz. The kratom buzz is different, I am more apt to see my life differently under kratom, I am more motivated to do things and feel calmer even though I am in day 1 of heroin withdrawal (should be total misery). This is my second time using kratom to detox, last time it was too detox from suboxone but it also works for H apparently though not 100%.

I used to why God why? Why did you create the poppy plant? How could you make a drug so evil that it truly robs the soul of free choice whether or not to continue using it? How can such an agent of uimaginable pain and suffering exist in nature? But now I see that although he made the poppy, the good Lord has also given us the cure for addiction to the poppy.
 
Indeed. But what is the cure for addiction to the Kratom plant? Ibogaine!;) or abstinence more likely...

Use it sparingly. Abused it is also addictive as fuck and has it's own nasty withdrawal.

PS- you give god too much credit ;)
 
I fully agree, this plant is amazing, got me off methadone but I have grown to become to good of friends with it. I actually prefer it over other opiate type stuff,I dont know why maybe its the full spectrum of alkaloids. I just take plain leaf bali at about 8 grams a dose 3 or 4 times a day but stopping it is almost worse than stopping my oxycodone habit that I had then went to 400 mg morphine daily then the methadone clinic for several months. I sit waiting for the ups man to show up curled up in a ball after i overuse my supply and suffer for a couple of days before my next one arrives. I hope this plant never becomes illegal in my area because I will be screwed completely and probably end up back in the methadone clinic but then again they would look at me and say your on what????.Hell my fiance doesnt even know I use it, and she was right beside me during my methadone clinic months, and thinks I jumped from 40mg methadone to nothing overnight, yeah right. I just feel ashamed to say I need this kind of stuff,I want this kind of stuff. Im sure the govt will eventually ban this plant even though its 100 percent natural just like poppy pods so big pharma can play with it and make billions off of it. To all those who use this plant to get off another addiction, I applaud you, but like he said what do we use to get off this stuff? What a vicious cycle
 
Last edited:
Well, looking at the Malaysian method Sekio offered, it seems like a very viable plan, and the hydroxylation to 7-OHM is extremely easy. To MPI is another story, but not all that complicated. The 7-OHM is one step with a pretty simple set up, the hardest part is the argon atmosphere, but argon is cheap and so is lead tetraacetate, toxic but not volatile and easily separated, just don't touch it with your bare hands.

In the Malaysian method they had .88mg/g but it was specifically the low mitragynine content of Malaysian leaf that motivated their need for a high yield / high selectivity method. The alakaloid content of Malaysian leaf was 16% mitragynine where Thai was 66%. That 5.5x more. So instead of .88mg/g you're looking at 4.84mg/g. I had read that 2 percent was a common alkaloid concentration, so that should give more like 16mg/g but given the relative ease of the extraction and the synthetic route is pretty easy so, it seems like a reasonable thing to continue pursuing.

Ziirp asked a question of me in private conversation that I thought I should address here. the reason I've been discussing this here and not in another forum (though I am discussing the specifics on another site) because I think that this is something that may interest a lot of people. I'm not suggesting that anyone here should pursue this sort of experimentation. The extraction involves potentially dangerous and definitely carcinogenic solvents and the synthesis involves toxic heavy metal derivatives that are extremely dangerous if handled improperly. It's something that a motivated amateur could manage. I'm not posting specifics because I'm not trying to give someone a recipe. I wouldn't in any situation, but especially not when I haven't even done this myself.

I want others to think about these things and be excited about the possibilities. Kratom holds many possibilities, for pain treatment, for addiction treatment and maintenance and, of course, for recreation. So many of the possibilities, the exciting ones for mitragynine modification, are relatively accessible and unexplored- for instance, the o-desmethylmitragynine metabolites are known in humans, but untested in the lab.



New topic: it's commonly repeated that because of 7-OHM is so much more potent than mitragynine it more than makes up for the deceased concentration, and so 7-OHM is actually the main active component. I believe this is wrong. I think the evidence actually supports the hypothesis that mitragynine actually acts as a prodrug for the primary active, o-desmethylmitragynine and o-desmethyl-7-hydroxy-mitragynine

O-demethylated analogues of many opioids are significantly stronger. One must look no further than two of the most common opioids to find examples of giant potency boosts obtained by demethylation. I'm not aware of any cases where demethylation decreases potency. Even hydroxypethidine is about twice the strength of methoxypethidine. Wikipedia says that hydroxypethidine is 1/3 the potency of pethidine, but the study I just finished reading says that 4-hydroxypethidine is 1/3rd the potency, and that 3-hydroxypethidine is equal, but the methoxypethidne is 1/2 the strength. I believe ketobemidone follows the same pattern, but unlike these simple 4-phenylpiperidine derivatives, we can't remove the 9-methoxy completely, as doing so gives you corynantheidine, an opioid antagonist.

I think that the probability that mitragynine is the main active is supported by math. If o-desmethylmitragynine is 10x stronger than mitragynine, a reasonable number, then it'd be weaker than 7-OHM, sure, but still present in much larger quantities. The slow onset probably supports this idea as well, as does the commonly repeated 'fact' that for some reason intrarectal administration doesn't make for a stronger experience or faster onset. In my experience o notice plain leaf in 45 minutes, but UEI, despite requiring much less digestion and extraction, takes an hour to really become noticeable.

I also think that UEI contains low levels of a very strong opioid because it seems to induce tachyphlaxis- 1g was solidly active a week ago. Today 4g is required. However, 10g of plain leaf was still active earlier in the day (though not quite as strong)
 
Last edited:
burn out said:
I think that kratom is an amazing miracle plant. I started taking kratom last night to help me come off a sizable IV heroin habit. Kratom has taken away 75% of the WD. The fact that I am even here on my computer typing this rather than curled up in bed is a testament to amazing it is. In addition to helping with withdrawal, I find the mental effects more "healing" than other detox drugs like suboxone. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of suboxone but I still look at subs as a "hard" opoiod drug, in that they induce that purely addictive escapist buzz. The kratom buzz is different, I am more apt to see my life differently under kratom, I am more motivated to do things and feel calmer even though I am in day 1 of heroin withdrawal (should be total misery). This is my second time using kratom to detox, last time it was too detox from suboxone but it also works for H apparently though not 100%.

I used to why God why? Why did you create the poppy plant? How could you make a drug so evil that it truly robs the soul of free choice whether or not to continue using it? How can such an agent of uimaginable pain and suffering exist in nature? But now I see that although he made the poppy, the good Lord has also given us the cure for addiction to the poppy.
Click to expand...

I'm curious, whether he also has a (pretended) cure for Kratom addiction in the pipeline ? Once overdone, a Kratom habit is similar to every other opiate addiction. Yeah, it is much harder to overdo the plain leaf, because you need to have enough space in the stomach for all that dusty powder. But when people are dealing with extracts, there will be no difference at all. Kratom is relatively safe because of the limited scalability. By extracting the pure alkaloides one takes that safety away...
 
Good point, I am past the pretending stage in my cycle other than my fiance not knowing, well guess that is still pretending, what a mess. I want to be clean off the opiate like stuff, but then again do I? If I really wanted to I would man up take the pain and just quit but I like the way I feel when I use it, it makes me more like me, but then again I dont even know what the real me is since starting opiate stuff, I know I have less pain, I am more sociable, more outgoing have more motivation, then again I remember several years ago I was those things without them. I do appreciate all the support I get on blulight and want to help anyone I can that is in this same boat of addiction.

A bit off my topic here, but does anyone know a good link or way to do a safe bali alkaloid extraction? I am just wanting to try it to see if I can actually do it, plain leaf does the job for me most days, but wanting to see if I can actually do a little science.Thank you in advance.
 
Thats good news, i am sure i am using more than I need too. Ive wondered about the suboxone route to get off the kratom,etc but heard so many horror stories about withdrawal from suboxone, and im sure the dr would just look at me with questionable eyes saying you are using what? So I think i will just continue my kratom intake and someday I may man up and get off of it but as my new saying goes, I will quit but not today.
 
^ someone made a thread about using subs to get off kratom and wouldn't listen to nearly every poster tell him it's a horrible idea and subs are a "harder" opioid than kratom w worse withdrawals.
 
Yeah using subs to get off Kratom is a horrible idea, and you're just going to end up with an even worse problem. The other way around helps a lot, but vice versa is just going to do way more harm than good. But whatever, people are gonna do what they're gonna do. Some people just don't wanna hear it.
 
I agree for someone with a normal sized habit (under an ounce a day) of plain leaf. Based on my limited experience with UEI, that has gotta be just as bad if not worse than oxy- tolerance climbs slowly with oxy, but UEI practically climbs a gram a day!!!
 
PsychedelicHaze said:
Wow comparable to 60mg oxy!? Even with someone like your self that has some kratom tolerance?

Incredible. How long has it been and is it wearing off fast or slowly?
Click to expand...

It became too intense. I re-dosed because I didn't think it was working but when it did hit me it was 60 minutes of pure bliss followed by nausea/dizziness & mild anxiety due to eye wobbles and vertigo.

If I had nailed the dose correctly I would have taken this over oxy any day. It was JUST like 2 30mg roxicodones I used to get around here.
 
As a strong former opiate addict, i can easily say that i now prefer kratom totally to other opioids, if there was a pile of oxy and krat, i'd take the krat. The things i like are 1. No miosis, 2. No fogging of emotional faculties, 3. No "nodding" or other

easy tells that i'm fucked up, 4. A nice DA component so i can DO things, 5. does not work well with alcohol, 6. doesn't make me want to smoke a carton of cigarettes, 7. I CAN STILL BUST A NUT. These are important things. It's very weird, I've been addicted to

many drugs and hands down no bs i'm addicted to kratom. I'm in the process of starting up a business around it so i wanted to see, ya know, how far it can go before i give it to anyone for money. So i took it up to 16g a day, IMO, it gets kindof shitty there. You stop

feeling much, I was dosing 4g x 4 a day spread out every few hours and i just felt like i never had ANY energy, even when up and was shaky and not having much fun. Please note i've been daily dosing for over 8 months at this point. So i did my usual opiate

withdrawal protocol and have currently weaned myself back to 7g a day. Personally, having gone off of .5g EXTREMELY pure china dope a day, kratom withdrawals almost... feel good? It's not quite the right description(edit:pleasurable in comparison to formal opioid

withdrawal) - but, I'm not disabled and can even enjoy the sexual stimulation part of opioid withdrawal and kind of forget about it, YMMV, and this was not so much the case at 16g, but CERTAINLY at 4 - 7. Ive watched maybe 20 people i didn't feel were deep enough

for an ibo trip follow directions and use it to taper a proper opiate habit with great success, and overall have to say, for a physically addicting substance, pretty rad.

Certainly using suboxing to taper seems insane to me when you could simply wean the kratom. Maybe i'm missing something, but it seems to me the worst part of kratom withdrawal is actually the missing DA components, for which ive successfully subbed

modafinil and low dose oral meth. Just my .02, been doing a lot of expirementing. What i'm interested in atm is LOW dose harmala experiences for helping along (low dose) opioid withdrawal. I'm developing the feeling that there should be two seperate protocol for

cleaning people up, one for below x(trying to figure this part out, probably different on a personal basis)mg of DOC opiate, one for above. Ibo is a great thing, but for someone taking 30mg of hydro a day, the risk seems totally unwarrented. Thoughts and opinions

appreciated!
 
im thinking about trying kratom just to see what's what but Im looking at these figures and it seems like you gotta take a lot of it just to get a high? like over a gram per sitting? whats that about?

can I just buy this shit at a head shop or is it better to just get it online? Im trying to get the strongest shit possible I dont care about the side effects I just dont want to be wasting my time either

thanks a bundle
 
im thinking about trying kratom just to see what's what but Im looking at these figures and it seems like you gotta take a lot of it just to get a high? like over a gram per sitting? whats that about?
Click to expand...

It's a leaf that grows on a plant, the amount of alkaloid in it is pretty small.
 
is it like heroin or more closer to a suboxone type of feeling?

sorry for the gajillion questions I just never did any research on this stuff and every website seems like a scam so idk wtf to believe
 
subotai said:
is it like heroin or more closer to a suboxone type of feeling?

sorry for the gajillion questions I just never did any research on this stuff and every website seems like a scam so idk wtf to believe
Click to expand...

I've never done either but for me it's kind of like tramadol. Starts off stimulating (some more than others) then fades into a relaxing opioid feeling.
 
subotai said:
im thinking about trying kratom just to see what's what but Im looking at these figures and it seems like you gotta take a lot of it just to get a high? like over a gram per sitting? whats that about?

can I just buy this shit at a head shop or is it better to just get it online? Im trying to get the strongest shit possible I dont care about the side effects I just dont want to be wasting my time either

thanks a bundle
Click to expand...
The average plain leaf dose with no tolerance is 4-5grams, you should be able to get that down in about 2 spoonfulls but if you don't wanna eat the straight powder you can make a tea and basically boil (softly) that down to the size of a shot if you want to, just strain the plant matter. If your gonna give kratom a shot then order it online. You can buy kratom at headshops but it's likely not gonna be anywhere near as fresh and guaranteed to be more to way more expensive depending on the HS. Kratom when bought online is cheap, an ounce of bali usually runs for a little more than a pack of ciggarettes, if you have a high opioid tolerance kratom will likely let you down.

subotai said:
is it like heroin or more closer to a suboxone type of feeling?

sorry for the gajillion questions I just never did any research on this stuff and every website seems like a scam so idk wtf to believe
Click to expand...
I would compare it to low-ish dose oxy, maybe 30mgs or so... Tramadol has that SSRI/SNRI nastyness that kratom doesn't give me yet it's definately on the stimulating side of the opiate spectrum (although kratom is neither an opiate nor an opioid).

MMT said:
What is the active in it? Are there any extraction techniques available on the web. Someone's got to have figured it out by now?
Click to expand...

Twenty-something alkaloids, the main constituents responsible for the opioid like effects are mitragynine and 7-oh mitragynine. There are plenty of extract methods online or you can buy straight extracts, however, keep in mind that the really strong extracts like FST, UEI, OEB contain synthetic mitragynine analogs. The easiest extract would be to boil your tea down to a resin.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=488576
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top