Kratom The Kratom Megathread

[amapola]

^Yep side effects will be less as you are ingesting less of the drug. You are also ingesting less of the other plant material which can cause the GI issues you mentioned.

 

[OEandricearoni]

So i was just wondering what your guys' opinions are of the different strains of kratom. Which ones are more sedating, more stimulating, ect. So far I've only tried the bali and it seems to be stimulating in small amounts but when i take more (like over 5 grams) i can feel SLIGHT sedation. (i have opiate tolerance) I'm thinking of getting the thai next time, but i'd like to know if anyone has tried the thai and can attest to it being a bit better than the bali. I'd prefer a strain that's more sedating than stimulating

 

[attempt4]

Oxide - Tea-making destroys some of the antagonists that can cause GI upset, coupled with the fact that you are not ingesting the highly-fibrous plant matter, then it's no surprise you prefer the tea method Add a teaspoon of ginger to the tea and you should find minimal side-effects in the way of stomach upset. Another great way to take Thom which is easy and very effective is the sludge method - place dose in glass, add tiny bit of liquid to create wall-paper paste thick sludgey consistency which helps bind the powder to the water [as if you have tried just mixing it into liquid, you will unfortunately know that it doesn't quite work that way] then fill up the glass with more liquid and stir, stir, stir for a wee while then neck it.

OEandricearoni - Bali's, Indonesians tend to be the more sedating strains. Stimulating strains are Malaysian and Thai strains (though this is in no way an accurate depiction of their true origin....much of the Kratom comes from Indonesia and Malaysia, regardless of it's label)

You are going to want a good Bali. I can't source you, but the US can get some great Bali (as well as some questionable ethics surrounding some strains and additives, but thats another discussion) if you know where to look. There's a million and one vendors, and a lot of bunk but a lot of half-decent Kakuam available in the US.

Lower amounts of most strains provide only high enough concentrations of stimulating alkaloids, regardless of the particular abundance of agonists unique to that strain. That is, regardless of the potential to achieve a nod with a potent Borneo-based strain ("Bali"), at the lower end of the dosage-spectrum the sedating strains will afford the consumer a stimulation not dissimilar to Kava Kava, sativa-dominant Cannabis Polm and Caffeine. However, go further up to around 10-15g and you can expect some pleasant euphoric dreaminess and a sleepy intoxication with a tendency to lightly drift in and out of consciousness (I refuse to make any comparisons between Kakuam and opiates).

For one to amass the greatest benefit and achieve the most wholesome, well-rounded effect then one should adopt a multi-strain combinatory (it's my new word, hoping it catches on, you like it?) approach. Different strains can vary in effect depending on soil grown in, drying methods ( for example, many types of Green Indo are defined as such simply by being sun-dried, air-dried and other various manufacturing methods), region, maturity of specific tree and time of year. Taking this into account, the best way to get a balanced and well-rounded high with more character is to combine certain strains.
This is where the real connoisseurship comes into play, and you practice mixing and matching varying quantities of x and y strain at certain times in the high. For example, Borneo Red Vein is very warming, sedate and relaxing and takes a good 1 hour 15 minutes to come on. Couple this with a superfine, quick-acting strain with stimulating properties, such as a good superfine Red Vein Thai and you get the best of both worlds, as the RVT begins to taper off, you are greeted with a lovely, relaxing comeup from the highly-relaxing Borneo strain. There are a million and one combinations you may do and this only comes with practice - which is half the fun.
In this way, it is much akin to Coffee, Whiskey or Cannabis.

It truly is a wonderful herb - otherwise I wouldn't have spent thousands upon thousands of pounds on it.

 

[King Hop Head]

I find taking Kratom in capsules reduces the effect, even if taken on an empty stomach and washed down with cola.

Used to like mixing X15 extract with leaf, to get a high dose the full range of alkaloids.

Now I have an Opiate tolerance, Kratom has far less effect on me, but attenuates withdrawal symptoms.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Any chance I could request a moderator to remove the [opiates] tag on the title of this thread? Kratom is not an opiate. It's getting more than enough negative attention and the more out there that puts kratom in a negative spotlight will hurt it in the long run.

 

[King Hop Head]

It is an Opioid though, strictly speaking.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

It is an Opioid though, strictly speaking.

i'll explain my standpoint:

First, two completely different words with completely different meanings. Opiates are alkaloids that come from, or are derived from the Papaver somniferum (opium poppy plant). An opioid is simply something that binds to opioid receptors. Therefore the tag on the thread is inaccurate. There are many other substances out there that have absolutely nothing to do with opiates, but still have some action on opioid receptors, yet are not classified opioids. DXM is an example of this. Kratom is too. Salvia as well, just to name a couple.

If you want to get real technical, 7-hydroxymitragynine and mitragynine are opioid agonists when isolated. However, kratom is made up of much more than just those two, there's plenty of other alkaloids which contribute to it's overall psychoactive effects, even additional alkaloids that are thought to inhibit the action of 7-hydroxymitragynine and mitragynine in a 'ceiling' type of way, making over-dosage extremely hard (maybe impossible, no doc'd cases yet) to achieve when using the whole leaf (like you're supposed to). Anyone will tell you that kratom does not have 1:1 effects like opiates do, it's actually quite different in many ways. It's much closer related to caffeine in structure than opiates.

Point being, kratom is under a lot of negative attention for this exact reason, because people keep comparing it to opiates and in many cases calling it an opiate. This brings the negative spotlight to it, and will undoubtedly contribute to it's prohibition. Remember poppy pods and how easy they were to get about a year ago? Now go ahead and try to find them. You won't, because the DEA cracked down HARDCORE due to the internet buzzing about them. Kratom is in the crosshairs. Pods are understandable, they ARE opiates, they CAN be used to manufacture opium and heroin, and already contain dangerous and illegal alkaloids like morphine and there are even documented cases of deaths directly due to poppy pods/seeds. Kratom is not dangerous, actually has health benefits, does not get a person 'mad fawked up y0!' and is a very useful, simple, mild and beneficial herb that many (mature) folks like to enjoy. People posting on forums calling it and comparing it to opiates will get it banned in no time.

I'm sure someone will inform me how I'm over thinking it.

It's just a request for accuracy purposes, that's all, so when the media is researching kratom, looking for ANYTHING to pin on it to make it look bad, this thread is one more thing that will give them ammunition against our beloved plant!

It would be like having a thread about ma huang, and tagging it with [amphetamines].

 

[mrtea]

Hello everyone! This is my first post on bluelight and I want to say hi. I recently heard about Kratom from a friend was was recommended this website for information. I have ready atleast half of the 26 pages in this thread and it is very lengthy. I have never tried kratom, but I do hydrocodone about 20mg's a day for quite some time now. I just received some various types of kratom and want to give it a try this weekend. I just have a few questions before I start.

First of all I purchased what seams to be the standard cheap commercial bali. I bought veg. caps to put the powder form in. From what I read on here a good starter does is around 6-7 grams correct? Well my 0 capsuls hold .4333 grams, so I would need about 13 of them to get to this dosage. Does this sound right? My girlfriend will be trying them with me and I don't want to freak her out by telling her she needs to take 13 of these instead of just a single hydrocodone!

Second question - I also aquired a few types of bali called "maeng da kratom" that I hear is good, "super indo kratom" and "thai kratom" - I know we can discuss pricing but they were all about twice as much as the regular bali. Now the only reason I bring this up is I just want to make sure that the dosage on this other stuff should be the same as bali? These aren't extracts or anything like that, as far as I can tell they are just "suposedly" better forms of kratom. I have read so many posts on here that I can't remember, but in general which one is the one that acts more as a stimulant than a sedative? I realise that these claims of either may not mean much, but it may at least be a guidline to start with. I only aquired small amounts of these to try out to see which one works best for me. I think I prefer energy over sedative.

Thanks in advance guys and gals. I hope I didn't break any rules in my questions, but I think I was careful.

 

[Pegasus]

Any chance I could request a moderator to remove the [opiates] tag on the title of this thread? Kratom is not an opiate. It's getting more than enough negative attention and the more out there that puts kratom in a negative spotlight will hurt it in the long run.

We don't have an opioid tag, so opiate is really the best one. I understand you don't want to bring attention to the drug, but we try very hard here at BL not to distort the truth, and the truth is that the main desirable effects of kratom are the mu-opioid agonist effects of mitragynine and 7-OHM. Anyway, the fact that kratom contains opioid agonists isn't really hidden-- a quick search of encyclopedias or journals will reveal this fact.

 

[Pegasus]

Hello everyone! This is my first post on bluelight and I want to say hi. I recently heard about Kratom from a friend was was recommended this website for information. I have ready atleast half of the 26 pages in this thread and it is very lengthy. I have never tried kratom, but I do hydrocodone about 20mg's a day for quite some time now. I just received some various types of kratom and want to give it a try this weekend. I just have a few questions before I start.

First of all I purchased what seams to be the standard cheap commercial bali. I bought veg. caps to put the powder form in. From what I read on here a good starter does is around 6-7 grams correct? Well my 0 capsuls hold .4333 grams, so I would need about 13 of them to get to this dosage. Does this sound right? My girlfriend will be trying them with me and I don't want to freak her out by telling her she needs to take 13 of these instead of just a single hydrocodone!

Second question - I also aquired a few types of bali called "maeng da kratom" that I hear is good, "super indo kratom" and "thai kratom" - I know we can discuss pricing but they were all about twice as much as the regular bali. Now the only reason I bring this up is I just want to make sure that the dosage on this other stuff should be the same as bali? These aren't extracts or anything like that, as far as I can tell they are just "suposedly" better forms of kratom. I have read so many posts on here that I can't remember, but in general which one is the one that acts more as a stimulant than a sedative? I realise that these claims of either may not mean much, but it may at least be a guidline to start with. I only aquired small amounts of these to try out to see which one works best for me. I think I prefer energy over sedative.

Thanks in advance guys and gals. I hope I didn't break any rules in my questions, but I think I was careful.

Bali is one of the stronger strains by any metric. Maeng Da is generally regarded to be one of the more potent stimulating strains, and I have to agree. Other than that, Thai is generally regarded to be stimulating, and Indo to be sedating, but I don't find anything to be better value than Bali. Most people who get into the other strains (than Bali) do so to avoid some of the side effects of the more potent strains such as Bali or Maeng Da.

 

[attempt4]

I echo the Seattle_Stranger's sentiments. It's already beginning to receive serious unwanted attention and mislabelling on well-known sites such as this won't help matters. I am aware that obviously it's the most applicable tag, but it's incorrect and unfair to lob it in with the realm of true opiates. Obviously that's jst our opinion and it probably won't change anything, but just wanted to say. SO anyway....onto the matter at hand...

mrtea - firstly, welcome to the forums! You didn't break any rules or anything, and it was a good question so no worries on that front!
As for the question, well to be honest, I would go for a different route than capsules for your first time. You are almost certainly destined to be unimpressed. Capsules tend to inhibit full absorption. Half a gram is about right for how much you can fit in there - I used to make caps but I would have to increase my dose by 50% and ingest GBL in a shot of Whiskey followed by a cup of hot tea to aid the break-down of the caps. It really wasn't worth it.

For a first time, I would recommend at least trying the toss and wash. T'nW is the strongest method of ingestion as it involves ingesting the fine-powdered leaf in it's entirety.

You basically weigh out your dose and shove it in a baggie or something similar. Then, grab a teaspoon (I have a special teaspoon that I got from an Indian man several years ago and have kept in my back pocket for the same length of time. I should probably wash it tbh) and dump a tspn's worth on your tongue. Then, grab a drink (I used to use OJ as it's thick and carries it down the throat well) and basically swallow the powder using the liquid as a vessel with which to carry it.
There are various tricks and ways to get it down - it is a pretty fine powder and quite sandy in texture, after all. It can be tricky not to choke on it, and this is going to sound vague as hell, but you just need to confidently swallow it down (don't puff out your cheeks when you take your swig as this will throw the powder all over your mouth) and actually almost play with it a wee bit, encouraging it to remain in the middle of my tongue but getting all of the Kratom itself wet in my mouth. Don't jst take a swig and swallow instantly. I flick my tongue back a wee bit almost as if pleasuring a fine lady. Just be confident and FEEL it going down. This sounds really vague, but just GET IT DOWN YOU BOY. There's a lot to be said for that simple phrase.

Secondly, you may try this MUCH easier technique. It tastes pretty foul but is over in a matter of seconds and is hard to fuck up.
Shove your dose in a glass and pour over a tiny amount of liquid, just enough to ensure it becomes a moist, paste-like substance akin to wallpaper paste or with the same kind of consistency as smooth peanut butter (a bit runnier perhaps). You will know what I mean when you see it.
Once it's all stirred in and sitting in the bottom of the glass as a sludge/paste-like texture, you fill up the glass with whatever drink you chose (DO NOT USE CARBONATED DRINKS. THIS GOES FOR TOSS AND WASH AS WELL)..try OJ. As soon as you've filled it up to the top, start stirring frantically!
Stir that bad boy for a good 30 seconds then chug chug chug.

Many people feel they can just shove Kratom in a drink and chug, but it doesn't work that way 99% of the time given the consistency and nature of the fine leaf. That's why it's vital to create this pre-drink sludge which then binds to the liquid effectively.

If that fails, I would recommend shoving it in a small yoghurt, mixing well and consuming quickly (each spoonfull can be washed down with a drink much like the toss and wash).

If you don't want to do this, then you may make a tea. Lightly simmer your dose in xL water, adding lime juice, lemon or vinegar. Do this for 15 minuutes then strain and drink. This is quite a bit weaker than the first 2 methods.

I would try 7g for your first time but I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get much from it considering your Hydro tolerance and the fact you said you got cheap Bali. I have no idea of your source and the Bali could be any old crap, especially if it's from a US vendor. However it might be from a reliable supplier, I don't know. Try 7g your first time anyway. My preferred dose is 10-13g.

Take into account my last post on the previous page as well (re: mixing strains). This will answer your question about what strains do what.

Take care and keep us posted.

 

[mrtea]

Has anyone tried altering the capsules? Like after you put them together what if you were to make a lot of tiny holes in them using a fine needle, or even cut the whole top off and swollow it quickly? I guess doing it the latter would be like parachuting it but with something that doesn't contain bleach! What about some of those breath strips that dissolve on your tongue? Has anyone tried anything weird like that to wrap up the kratom since it would dissolve very fast in your stomach? or like my other idea of cutting the end of the capsule off and then maybe putting a dissolving strip of some kind over the end? I know these are probably dumb ideas, i'm just brain storming.

As for the quality of Kratom I purchased - well I know we cant mention vendors or prices etc, but I purchased from two places. One is a distributor straight from Indonesia who supposedly supplies many Kratom companies based in the US. The other location is US based I think [...]

Edit: One more question - Has anyone tried making brownies out of this stuff? I vaguely remember reading something about that in this thread but cannot find it. The search feature in these forums don't seem to work for me either unless it's because I have less than 50 posts? Mods?? So if I made it into like some giradelli dark chocolate brownies how bad do you guys think they would taste? Will baking them burn out some of the alkaloids?

 

[Oxide]

Has anyone tried altering the capsules? Like after you put them together what if you were to make a lot of tiny holes in them using a fine needle, or even cut the whole top off and swollow it quickly? I guess doing it the latter would be like parachuting it but with something that doesn't contain bleach! What about some of those breath strips that dissolve on your tongue? Has anyone tried anything weird like that to wrap up the kratom since it would dissolve very fast in your stomach? or like my other idea of cutting the end of the capsule off and then maybe putting a dissolving strip of some kind over the end? I know these are probably dumb ideas, i'm just brain storming

As for the quality of Kratom I purchased - well I know we cant mention vendors or prices etc, but I purchased from two places. One is a distributor straight from Indonesia who supposedly supplies many Kratom companies based in the US. The other location is US based I think who uses wild roaring animals that jump around in a garden like environment If this is too specific mods just edit my post hehe.

Edit: One more question - Has anyone tried making brownies out of this stuff? I vaguely remember reading something about that in this thread but cannot find it. The search feature in these forums don't seem to work for me either unless it's because I have less than 50 posts? Mods?? So if I made it into like some giradelli dark chocolate brownies how bad do you guys think they would taste? Will baking them burn out some of the alkaloids?

That's pretty specific by Bluelight standards, even hinting like that at sources isn't allowed.

As far as brownies go, that just sounds fucking gross. Kratom is pretty awful tasting as is. I don't think chocolate would mask it very well, and the temp you have to cook the brownies at might destroy some alkaloids. To be honest I really don't know as I've never tried it. (EDIT: A little googling will help you out here, guess you aren't the first person to try to make these.)

Anyway, my kratom finally arrived today. I had to settle for Super Indo this time as I'm sick of Bali, and couldn't spring for the super green malaysian. Seems...fresher than usual this time. Usually it smells like kratom of course, but much less strongly. This time I could smell it when I opened the package, while it was still double bagged and all. Just ate a spoonful. Mmm. Hopefully I can use this to get off of poppy seeds before I dig that hole any deeper.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

We don't have an opioid tag, so opiate is really the best one. I understand you don't want to bring attention to the drug, but we try very hard here at BL not to distort the truth, and the truth is that the main desirable effects of kratom are the mu-opioid agonist effects of mitragynine and 7-OHM. Anyway, the fact that kratom contains opioid agonists isn't really hidden-- a quick search of encyclopedias or journals will reveal this fact.

Totally understood. Obviously, it's up to you guys. I just figured I'd share my opinion.

 

[mrtea]

So I was wondering - people say to take Kratom on an empty stomache - well if you are using it for withdraw symptoms is that still necessary or will it do the trick regardless?

Second question - How do you pronounce Kratom - I say "KRAYTUM" but I assume it could also be "Kruhtom"

 

[Cane2theLeft]

It'll get into your bloodstream regardless of stomach contents but an empty stomach expedites this and may make it somewhat more effective (this is generally said of opioids and many other substances as well).

I don't know of the official pronunciation. I've heard both 'kraytom' and 'krahtom' quite a bit. Since there isn't an 'e' following the consonant after the 'a', I assumed it was 'krahtom' but I'm an english speaker and the origin of the word is presumably SE Asian so I have no clue how it should be pronounced!

 

[mrtea]

What is a good starter dose for Maeng Da non enhanced or anything, just a powder. I don't want to get messed up, just a buzz with a little euphoria like being on a couple hydro's. I was going to take a 20oz bottle of water and empty half of it, pour in the kratom, and add one of those water flavor packs like maybe pomegranate cherry or something and see how bad it is. Those flavor packs are pretty strong, so I'm hoping with only half a bottle of water it will help hide the kratom a bit - I will report back afterwards. But first I need to know a good starting dose, I was thinking 6 grams?

EDIT: I would still like the answer to the dose but I wanted to let everyone know that I just tried it by tasting the powder by itself out of curiosity. Is it weird that I like it? The kratom was purchased from what I hear is a reputable place btw. It has kind of a black tea smell to the powder, kinda of smells sweet. The taste is definitely a little gritty, but other than that its not horrible. Doesn't taste anything like it smells, but it doesn't taste like taking a soma either. Those things are so nasty!! This seems like I can almost just eat the powder with no problem, I hope that doesn't mean its no good lol.

 

[Pegasus]

^I think the texture and sheer size of a dose is more of a problem for most people than the taste. The hydrophobic (water repellent) nature of the leaf also makes preparing fairly difficult.


Cane, the Indonesian kratom harvester I know says that they pronounce it "krah-thom", but that doesn't really flow in English so I just say "kray-tom".

 

[mrtea]

Thanks for the reply. I actually went with a crystal light "sunrise classic orange" water flavoring and it doesn't taste bad at all. You do taste the grittyness of the kratom, but after that the orange after taste kicks in. I think this will work well. I'm sipping on it now with 6 grams in it, does that sound about right or should i add more / drink less?

Ironically i just read the side of my dasani bottle and it says " plantbottle(TM) up to 30% plant based" - im like you got that right!

EDIT: Thanks for the reply below pegasus, I stuck with the 6 grams, left maybe less than half a gram leftover. The flavor, consistency, and volume were non factors to me. I rather enjoyed it actually, you guys really need to try half a bottle of water at most with a packet of crystal light. Those crystal lights use fake sugar which is more potent IMO and creates a stronger taste, which seems to overpower the kratom. Don't buy the ones with real sugar.

I will report back in an hour or two and let you guys know what I think about this stuff. It would be nice to be able to switch back and forth between hydros and this to cushion my pocket a bit and not have to worry about running out of things.

One more question, sorry! Has anyone taken Kratom on a plane? I'm just curious as it sounds like a good alternative to taking trips and throwing in pills with your carryon without a script, althought they aren't really strict about pills anyway. Having a bag of grass will probably cause more trouble, just curious though.

 

[Pegasus]

^Lol.

6g is a good start IMO, maybe slightly high but it's your call.