Kratom The Kratom Megathread

[miscbrahh]

Im not too sure on that one, i know nausea is a side effect of oxy and opiates in general. Ingesting 15g of plant matter is a lot imo (especially with no tolerance, idk if that applies to you or not) making nausea pretty likely. I suggest finding a better source for your kratom if it takes that much to get you where you need to be, maybe try some enhanced leaf but id stay away from them extracts

Yup, no Opiate tolerance.
I think I'm just going to throw the rest out, the hangover was not worth the ok-ish body buzz.

 

[blight12]

Ive never heard of anybody doing this, but lets try our best to keep kratom legal, and putting it up your nose would be a big reason to hate on it. Its not that bad when someone sees you take some kratom caps and you explain what it is, or a family member watches you take a parachute, but seeing someone "administer" it in this way would bring on quite a stigma, and attract people we dont want taking the plant. just my opinion...

Yeah, agreed.

 

[Privateer]

The oral bioavailability of pure mitragynine was reported to be alarmingly low: "a calculated absolute oral bioavailability value of 3.03%" which is worrying to say the least. The bioavailability of 7-hm is more favorable: "The absolute oral bioavailability was found to be 52%." One thing that I'm thinking is that pure mitragynine is poorly absorbed but the mitragynine complexed in the plant matter is more easily absorbed by the body?

Doing the math, if 3% of its mitragynine is bioavailable... A 4g sample of plain leaf with 1% mitragynine and 0.03% 7-hm (going off of reported mitragynine contents and alkaloidal ratios) would contain about 40mg mitragynine and 1.2mg 7-hm, of which 1.2 mg of mitragynine and 0.62 mg of 7-hydroxymitragynine would allegedly be bioavailable. If mitragynine is roughly equal in potency to morphine and 7-hm is five to eight times the potency of morphine (conservative figures), a 4g dose would offer 4-6 morphine mg equivalents as iv or after bioavailability calculations for oral. If mitragynine's bioavailability increases a little bit in plant matter versus pure form this figure can go up quite a bit. The pharmacokinetics of kratom is fascinating. The reported bioavailabilities, unfortunately, are all over the place currently, so all these calculations are tentative at best. I'm excitedly waiting for reputable figures in that department.

 

[Fresco]

Has anyone tried tapering off kratom to quit??

If so, how well did that work for you??

 

[jazzyhope]

Can someone PM me a source for decent Kratom? I purchased some 8 years ago & found it very helpful for w/d's. Dont really have the $$ for hit & miss sites. Thanks

 

[XxxshortyxxX]

I know we cant source here, I had this issue as well

 

[blueheaven]

I hope this is the right place to post this. I recently used kratom and tramadol to get off a 4-year pod habit (there was a three month break in there about two years ago) and I was thrilled and grateful for how well it worked. I have tapered completely off the trams and now take nothing except kratom, a daily prescribed SSRI (very low dose - I'm ultra-sensitive to SSRIs), and the occasional prescribed benzo (as needed, less than once a week).

One of my big reasons for getting shut of the opiates at this point was hypersomnia - I was amazingly productive while on them but once I finally went to sleep, I'd sleep for 12 hours. I'm self-employed now so that is not cool and not sustainable. I've kept using kratom because it was staving off the PAWS which has always been the reason I go back to using.

But kratom also seems to induce hypersomnia. It keeps me going for about three hours (I take no more than 7 grams at a go, usually more like 5), then I get really sleepy. And I will sleep for 12 hours the next day. I have suffered and shuffled through a few days with nothing but coffee, during which I got little to nothing done, and have been able to get up earlier the following day, which suggests it's the kratom. Does kratom do this to anybody else, and does anybody have suggestions for dosing, strains, or anything else that might help me keep the good effects without the hypersomnia?

 

[tkarr]

So is it considered to be the case that kratom is fairly safe to use and one isn't likely to experience long-term health effects if they end up with a bit of a habit? I know that there are many people who have used it for many, many years in South-East Asia. On wikipedia it says: "A general consensus exists in Thailand among leaders, public health officials, academics and policymakers that kratom use and dependence causes little, if any, health risks." But I wonder if there have been studies or if it's just a "general consensus" like they say. I've been using it daily for about six months to kick an opiate habit. And yeah I mean I haven't noticed any negative side effects at all from it - aside from the fact that you are hooked on it the same way as with other opiates, and if you don't take it you feel withdrawal symptosm.

 

[Blind Melon]

This has probably been asked before, and I did UTFSE, but I don't have time to read all 36 pages of this.

Would Kratom work on top of my daily bupe dose (8-16mg)? I'm wondering if a) it wouldn't work because the bupe would be monopolizing all my opioid receptors, or b) even worse, could it cause PWD?

Thanks in advance for putting up with me. I'm just desperate to get high, can't use opiates obviously, and I'm worried about the benzo habit I am building. Weed, as amazing as it is, just doesn't cut it for me.

 

[Fresco]

Its a general concensus that kratom and other opiates dont mix very well.

Alcohol and kratom does though

 

[voxmystic]

I hope this is the right place to post this. I recently used kratom and tramadol to get off a 4-year pod habit (there was a three month break in there about two years ago) and I was thrilled and grateful for how well it worked. I have tapered completely off the trams and now take nothing except kratom, a daily prescribed SSRI (very low dose - I'm ultra-sensitive to SSRIs), and the occasional prescribed benzo (as needed, less than once a week).

One of my big reasons for getting shut of the opiates at this point was hypersomnia - I was amazingly productive while on them but once I finally went to sleep, I'd sleep for 12 hours. I'm self-employed now so that is not cool and not sustainable. I've kept using kratom because it was staving off the PAWS which has always been the reason I go back to using.

But kratom also seems to induce hypersomnia. It keeps me going for about three hours (I take no more than 7 grams at a go, usually more like 5), then I get really sleepy. And I will sleep for 12 hours the next day. I have suffered and shuffled through a few days with nothing but coffee, during which I got little to nothing done, and have been able to get up earlier the following day, which suggests it's the kratom. Does kratom do this to anybody else, and does anybody have suggestions for dosing, strains, or anything else that might help me keep the good effects without the hypersomnia?

Kratom definitely enhances my sleep, but I suffer from insomnia, so for me, it's a godsend.

 

[Aphex747]

for someone who has never done kratom but enjoys opiates of all kinds, my friend said theres a strain thats the strongest and its like hydrocodone. its called borneo red vein or something like that. i think he got leaves, but im not sure. can anyone help point me at least in the right direction, i have no knowledge of kratom other than id like to check it out : ) -aphex

 

[PANDAmonium]

Aphex, the strain your friend is referring to is Red Vein Bali (also referred to as Red Vein Borneo). It's usually referred to as simply, "Bali" but there are more than one type of Bali, so be sure to look for the red vein variety.

 

[aguythatlikessmoke]

Let me input I have a heck load of Experience with some of these Ethnobotanical compounds or Herbal/Plant compounds. I admit I like Kratom I never found it too addictive. My strongest strain was Maeng Da shit is rad when I took it initially I felt stimulated, talkative and really good eventually I felt really chilled out and a powerful body high I've also noted my eyes got very very blood shot on Maeng Da it looked as though I smoked a big blunt and my eyes where droppy. Maeng Da its slightly stimulating but more like an opiod type high and you feel slowed down, chilled and pain relief first you get stimulated and then you just feel groggy,sedated blood shot eyes. Euphoric as well and it has some aphrodisiac quality to it Maeng Da.
Next Kratom strain I tried is Bali Red Kratom this shit I liked its really stimulating, it pumps up your energy levels, you also feel that Opiod warmth feeling hard to describe and you notice no blood shot eyes but you do notice constricted pupils. It really stimulates me this strain like not just on a mental level but on a physical level I did some cleaning work and ran a cleaning business over the summer and when I took this strain I would be able to exert myself so much in any type of physical work without feeling tired, I would pace back and forth and feel absolutely no fatigue my mind was blank as well so much better than Caffeine this is probably my favourite strain as I tend to enjoy stimulating effects sometimes a bit more than sedation and I feel more Euphoric when stimulated, you also get a feeling of excitement on this strain it is reminiscent to Amphetamine though not as intense and better on your body and less chemical in nature more natural type of feeling. I also did mental work as studying on this strain helps tremendously with that too.
I tried Golden Indo Kratom it is slightly stimulating but very Warmth type feeling over your whole body probably the most Opiod and Euphoric Kratom strain I tried.
I found the extracts to be overwhelming and to just knock me out.

 

[aguythatlikessmoke]

I could understand the thai people when they used Kratom to work cause truly if u take the right strain of Kratom it does have that effect of making you more stimulated and better able to work and it also makes everything go by much faster and you get your work done faster and you get more in tune with work> This is on the Bali Red Strain.
So I mean its kinda of like weed( different strains different effects) , Kratom does deff have Cocaine like stimulation and Morphine like sedation. I found the Cocaine Like stimulation evident on the Bali Red strain.
Whilst the Morphine like sedation is experienced more so on Maeng Da kratom. Kratom is an interesting compound as it tends to display different effects.
Most of the times Kratom effects last 2-3 hours for me.
I have also tried a herb called Sceletium Tortuosum different mechanism of action compared to Kratom but if you have the proper vendors for these herbs the effects are astonishing.
Like Kratom its easy to get a good vendor cause its plentiful
Sceletium tortuosum seems people haven't gotten too much out of it. For me that herb its effects are better than Kratom it is like a powerful herbal antidepressant it acts on CB1 receptors and Serotonin and you can feel like you took MDMA whilst on Sceletium. I live in Europe and I buy my stuff in Person and its legal in my location and I have an excellent vendor for Sceletium and Kratom so with these two compounds I know all of the effects top to bottom there is really so much to write on them.
I really hope that people give Sceletium a try as well to me the effects are at a better level than Kratom . I can reckon so because I got hooked on Sceletium whereas with Kratom i never got hooked.

 

[aguythatlikessmoke]

Really if anybody wants any information on Sceletium Tortuosum,Kanna and Kratom. There effects how to use them and how to maximize it personal message me.
I am very skilled in using them. Especially Sceletium Tortuosum although I have had at least 30 trips on kratom maybe more.

 

[daytryptr]

Its a general concensus that kratom and other opiates dont mix very well.

Alcohol and kratom does though

I agree and disagree. Recently took my first taste of opiates, (morphine, diamorphine, black tar acetyl derivatives and the like), and to be honest, i prefer kratom. My only expirence with pharm/opiates beforehand was hydrocodone from an accident in my teenage years that left me with 2nd degree burns on most of the skin of my arms/legs. Which was purely medical, factoring in the circumstances and my age at the time.

Morphine/herion left me feeling far too nauesous, sick, and turned off from morphine derivatives. I had been using kratom for years on/off before hand, and never got sick the way i did getting way higher off kratom. Now on one occasion, i took a dose of kratom extract after puking my guts out from plugging ~15mg black tar without any tolerance, and to my suprise it helped a great deal with the nausea. To the point to where i consider it was an effective antiemetic in that situation.

So it made opiates more enjoyable for me, but ultimately left me with a rock hard conviction that kratom is a superior high to opiates, even if they are more euphoric. The thought of mixing them, however, was a bit frightening. Frightening in that it could be an easy way to get a habit to traditional opiates by making the side affects less prelavent when mixing the two.

Ultimately, these couple weeks of playing around with the hard stuff just scared the hell out of me. Kratom w/d's are to the mild w/d's i got from traditional opiates, as cannabis withdrawals are to the hell of benzo withdrawals.

I'm very grateful i had got to know kratom, before opiates. The other way around, things could have been very ugly.

Basically, i think they are dangerously addictive when combined, simply because imho kratom tends to mask some of the side affects opiates gave me, used recreationally. I was lucky too see how foolish it is to fuck around with opiates, all i need is kratom. So much more benign. Not to mention how in low doses kratom is a very effective anti-depressant for me, and lacks the apathy inducing qualities of traditional opiates, due to its cieling effect, and stimulating edge.

Just thought i'd share my expirence, as somewhat of an odd man out being the guy who had a good deal of expirence with kratom, before ever approaching recreational traditional opiate use. But then again, i was that hippie kid who tried every ethno botanical, plant psych he could get his hands on. In retrospect, it was a wise choice before seeking out the harder stuff.

 

[silentcowboy]

^ I agree with most of the stuff in your post. I tried traditional opiates first like most people, but after a few years of daily kratom use I prefer kratom to opiates any day. Its a lot more mild (in the doses I take) but it has such a good, full, and clean effect that doesnt fog your brain like other things. Im really glad I tried kratom, thanks to BL and erowid I was able to find the plant that pretty much saved my ass completely.

 

[liftedgift]

I hope this is the right place to post this. I recently used kratom and tramadol to get off a 4-year pod habit (there was a three month break in there about two years ago) and I was thrilled and grateful for how well it worked. I have tapered completely off the trams and now take nothing except kratom, a daily prescribed SSRI (very low dose - I'm ultra-sensitive to SSRIs), and the occasional prescribed benzo (as needed, less than once a week).

One of my big reasons for getting shut of the opiates at this point was hypersomnia - I was amazingly productive while on them but once I finally went to sleep, I'd sleep for 12 hours. I'm self-employed now so that is not cool and not sustainable. I've kept using kratom because it was staving off the PAWS which has always been the reason I go back to using.

But kratom also seems to induce hypersomnia. It keeps me going for about three hours (I take no more than 7 grams at a go, usually more like 5), then I get really sleepy. And I will sleep for 12 hours the next day. I have suffered and shuffled through a few days with nothing but coffee, during which I got little to nothing done, and have been able to get up earlier the following day, which suggests it's the kratom. Does kratom do this to anybody else, and does anybody have suggestions for dosing, strains, or anything else that might help me keep the good effects without the hypersomnia?

Hah that's a big part of kratom withdrawal and maybe just the "hangover" in general. My withdrawals are extreme exhaustion even if I had slept 10 hours. Everything else feels like a slight cold but the exhaustion is what kills me.

Even after endulging in kratom almost daily for a year, it is still a mystery to me. Every burn is a bit different especially with different strains. Body chemistry seems to be a big factor. The high depends on so many different things, certain times of the day I can have a really energetic feeling or a total wobbled.

THAI is known to be the more energetic, more so than Bali which is my favorite. Unfortunately a lot of trusted vendors seem to be getting weaker than normal Bali, so I'm probably going to order a different strain. I really think one of the big suppliers tried to get away with providing weaker leaf to see if anyone noticed..

If your having trouble with the withdrawals I have used kava kava to eliminate most of the unpleasant effects, although in your case it might make you more tired lol but it's more of a relaxed feeling than the total exhaustion I get.

 

[blueheaven]

Thanks, I appreciate the info. I guess kratom is not going to work for me since the negatives and duration of the negatives outweigh the very short-term positives in my case. Bummer. Well, I am really glad it helped me get off opiates nearly painlessly, and I will still sing its praises for that. But if the 12-hour sleeping is the price to pay for using it, it's not worth it for me.

See, it's not the withdrawal - I've gotten the opiates out of my system and am only in the throes of PAWS now - the months after acute withdrawal with the fog, depression, lack of interest, etc thanks to my totally screwing up my brain chemistry from years of opiate abuse. Or if you're talking about kratom WD, that's 1. not what is happening here - I'm just talking about the day after I take it, without fail, that I sleep for at least 10 hours and will sleep for 12 or more if left alone, 2. no big deal -- I'm not trying to diminish the experience of anybody who is suffering due to kratom WDs, but I'll take kratom WDs any day over opiate WDs. I can function w/ kratom WDs (though I can't actually bring myself to call them WDs, honestly; to me, getting off kratom is to opiate WDs like sneezing b/c of allergies is to a killer strain of flu). Not even the same ballpark, not the same game. So I'm just saying that whenever I take kratom, I sleep for about 12 hours the next day. If I get up, I will have to take a nap later. Kratom makes me foggy and exhausted the next day, every time.

I cringe every time I see somebody compare kratom in any way to opiates b/c I think it such a godsend to help people kick opiates and I would hate to see it get banned and such comparisons seem to add fuel to the freaking-out-fire. I am so grateful that kratom helped me avoid the acute withdrawal misery. But I guess you just have to pay, post-opiate-abuse, even if you get a pass on the immediate agony of WD thanks to kratom, and I just have to suffer through the PAWS and hope my brain gets its shit together sooner rather than later. Ugh. I was really hoping kratom would help with the PAWS because PAWS is why I have always gone back to using opiates. I hate WDs, but they end - I live in mortal freakin fear of PAWS because it seems like they never do.