Kratom The Kratom Megathread

[《Plasticity》]

Myco don't forget that each strain has it's own alkaloid profile, this is very important if you can't seem to find your sweet spot. From experience WVMD is one of the more potent strains so 2 tsp of that isn't gonna be equipotent to say, 2 tsp of your average run of the mill bali. Even if a vendor has it's mitragynine percentage listed there's still 20+ alkaloids unaccounted for and believe it or not, not every strain even contains any 7-OH Mitragynine at all. Sekio did some testing on a few strains and iirc none even contained 7-OH Mitragynine. Also, some strains just seem to have a higher ratio of dirty/gross alkaloids to opioid alkaloids which makes finding your sweetspot near impossible. Certain strains were guaranteed to give me eye wiggles and jelly legs before any remarkable euphoria, green malaysian was a repeat offender.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

I'm having eye wiggles right now from red vein bali.. took 5g this morning another at noon and just now again.. was talking to someone and the damn eye wiggles started a few min ago now cant look at anything without it happening in my peripheral vision.
I hate this strain.
I have some more red vein coming in along with the same amount of green vein.. think ill mix the 2 in equal proportions and see what i get.
IIRC the cheap stuff (PC/Bali) is a mix of all vein colors thrown together.
I actually prefer that to what I have now.. hoping mixing the 2 when it arrives will result in something like regular PC/Bali.

-HOOD


EDIT: opinions on what im planning on doing? any better ratio than 50/50?

 

[Mycophile]

Myco don't forget that each strain has it's own alkaloid profile, this is very important if you can't seem to find your sweet spot. From experience WVMD is one of the more potent strains so 2 tsp of that isn't gonna be equipotent to say, 2 tsp of your average run of the mill bali. Even if a vendor has it's mitragynine percentage listed there's still 20+ alkaloids unaccounted for and believe it or not, not every strain even contains any 7-OH Mitragynine at all. Sekio did some testing on a few strains and iirc none even contained 7-OH Mitragynine. Also, some strains just seem to have a higher ratio of dirty/gross alkaloids to opioid alkaloids which makes finding your sweetspot near impossible. Certain strains were guaranteed to give me eye wiggles and jelly legs before any remarkable euphoria, green malaysian was a repeat offender.

I didn't realize that WVMD is more potent than others.

That's interesting because so far it's my least favorite strain I've tried and maybe that is why...because perhaps I usually take too much of it but also...it's EXTREMELY dense unlike bali, RVB, GVB or GM.

All those tend to be grainy and easy to get down but I always cough and choke a little on the WMD when trying to get it down cause it's SO damn thick and I'm wondering why?

Really though, I don't notice much of a difference between ANY of the strains I have tried to be honest.

I thought I really would notice the difference between them, but they all feel pretty much the same to me, equally likely to produce speedy effects and most of them don't give me as much sedation as I hope for either (not tired type sedation, but I'd like more of an Oxy/Hydro type effect that I don't get quite as much of as I would like always).

I remember Sekio giving the opinion that he didn't think that there really was much of a difference between white, green and red veins and that it was mostly psychological, and that when he ran tests on them there wasn't much difference in alkaloids between any of them but you seem to disagree from your experience huh??

What is a "dirty/gross alkaloid" anyway??

I'd assume a GOOD vendor would have good quality stuff most of the time right?

And what effects does 7-OH Mitragynine have?

I don't know anything about it or any of the alkaloids for that matter.

I also don't think I've ever gotten "eye wiggles" or "jelly legs"...could you describe them?? (I'd assume jelly legs is just weak wobbly legs?)

Anyways, I have found certain things to be consistent for me with Kratom in producing good results and that my learning curve has increased dramatically in terms of percentage of getting good effects, things like:

Don't take too much, especially no more than two teaspoons,
wait longer to take more if there's any question, especially more than 4 hours if you don't want to overdo it because I find that the alkaloids or whatever tend to stick around and have effects for a LOT longer than 4 hours sometimes which is what others have said is the standard length of the experience--

Don't overdo the caffeine on it...can make some of the euphoria go away if I take too much and/or cause hypertension

I also HAVE to take Kratom at least like 7-8 hours before bed to sleep, regardless of strain.

But it is still SO weird to me.

Kratom can have the good effects of: good mood, anxiety reduction, speedy ness (the good kind) and euphoria....but it can also have the negative effects of: too much sedation, too much speediness, hypertension and irritabiltiy.

At times I can be REALLY irritable on it....and then at others times the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of irritable.

Usually I think the irritation is caused by too much and/or too much caffeine with it.

But the good thing I have found is that unlike some other drugs that I have a psychological addiction to (not physical) like weed and alcohol, I don't have that problem so far (fingers crossed) with Kratom.

I dont' really crave doing it more than once or twice a week and have little trouble sticking to that.

It really ISN'T true the garbage that people say about "if you have an addictive personality it's that way with ALL drugs".

Some people just react differently to certain things and Kratom seems not to have a negative-drug seeking-effect on me.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

About the caffeine thing Myco.. i find kratom works best (for me) if followed by a cup or 2 of coffee. Than again, that's not tons of caffeine.
Plus i drink a lot of caffeine daily anyways so maybe caffeine tolerance comes into play for me?

 

[《Plasticity》]

Are you sure it was sekio who told you that? Because his results show otherwise (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/721746-Kratom-analysis-for-fun-and-profit). I have no doubt that each strains have their own subtle differences, I didn't notice them much when first starting but as time went on I really started noticing differences. I mean there were always strains that I didn't tolerate, but I could grasp other subtle differences as one might notice from different cannabis strains, though I'm aware you said you can't tell those differences either.

I would agree that density is another factor as well, I too noticed differences in densities. Too much kratom = a shitty time regardless of the strain so if your dosing a potent strain that's also dense with a tsp measure that's kind of a double whammy. Others my disagree but as little as 1g makes or breaks a good experience for me so it pays off to have a scale even if 1 tsp dosing has a varience of .1-.3 per tsp, because that becomes a .2-.6 variency with both tsps. Just some things to keep in mind, I've gone for months, possibly even years without dosing too high or too little once I found out how to work with the handfull of strains I would cycle.

 

[Mycophile]

Are you sure it was sekio who told you that? Because his results show otherwise (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/721746-Kratom-analysis-for-fun-and-profit). I have no doubt that each strains have their own subtle differences, I didn't notice them much when first starting but as time went on I really started noticing differences. I mean there were always strains that I didn't tolerate, but I could grasp other subtle differences as one might notice from different cannabis strains, though I'm aware you said you can't tell those differences either.

I would agree that density is another factor as well, I too noticed differences in densities. Too much kratom = a shitty time regardless of the strain so if your dosing a potent strain that's also dense with a tsp measure that's kind of a double whammy. Others my disagree but as little as 1g makes or breaks a good experience for me so it pays off to have a scale even if 1 tsp dosing has a varience of .1-.3 variancy per tsp, because that becomes a .2-.6 variancy with both tsps. Just some things to keep in mind, I've gone for months, possibly even years without dosing too high or too little once I found out how to work with the handfull of strains I would cycle.

Yeah, I remember for sure that Sekio was the one who had said that at one point, but I don't know, maybe he changed his mind.

Yeah, I feel the same way about taking just a little bit too much vs a the right amount being so specific, but I bought a scale and it just doesn't work and I don't really feel like buying another right now though sooner or later I probably will.

I still get good enough effects a lot of the time to feel I don't necessarily NEED to but it would probaby make a difference.

And I can tell the difference between different types of weed in terms of how some weed is better than others, slightly more relaxing maybe, and of course the taste but I have just never known if I was smoking Indica or Sativa.

 

[Mycophile]

About the caffeine thing Myco.. i find kratom works best (for me) if followed by a cup or 2 of coffee. Than again, that's not tons of caffeine.
Plus i drink a lot of caffeine daily anyways so maybe caffeine tolerance comes into play for me?

Yeah, I probably drink as much or more coffee than you cause I drink like 4-6 cups a day though I am trying to cut down.

I have also found that 2-3 cups of coffee or tea potentiates Kratom, but that more than that can ruin the experience.

But something I was wondering from Kratom users who are also coffee drinkers is: Do you feel it dramatically changes the experience from how it would be if you didn't have caffeine?

Like, sometimes I want more of an Oxy/Hydro type feel because usually I just get a super speedy Opioid effect but I can't usually get that kind of effect and was wondering if maybe I would if I didn't drink coffee?

I pretty much need caffeine though so I don't know if I could even experiment and enjoy the experience.

I also discovered that JUST the right amount of alcohol can have a great effect with Kratom, but not too much or I will just get drunk and forget I'm on Kratom at all.

The best Kratom experience I've had so far was when I drank a few cups of coffee with just the right amount of Kratom and then went to a brewery and had like 4-5 strong beers.

I had a great Kratom buzz, great beer buzz and caffeine buzz and they all worked together perfectly.

It felt a lot like the weed + alcohol combo but with much more mental clarity and absolutely no anxiety.

I also almost felt like I was getting more drunk in that I was stumbling a little bit when it would normal take 3 times that much alcohol to do that, and i got REALLY talkative with people I didn't know.

 

[《Plasticity》]

I know it might seem like a pita to buy a scale but I can't reccomend it enough that you do, at least if you continue to have problems dosing. You can get a cheap scale for 10$ on amazon. Just make sure you get the right scale for the occasion though, you don't want a mg scale or a scale that barely starts weight after dumping a whole gram. I believe the right scale would be a 0.01 scale? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...

And I can tell the difference between different types of weed in terms of how some weed is better than others, slightly more relaxing maybe, and of course the taste but I have just never known if I was smoking Indica or Sativa.

Ah I see, my bad. Yeah with access to medicinal cannabis it becomes very easy to spot the differences between the two strains as well as certain hybrids as alot of dispensaries typically have the strains categorized as well as their CBD/THC ratios which makes it easy to draw correlations.

 

[Mycophile]

^^^^

Yeah, I'll eventually buy a scale but I'm doing ok for now.

And I remember when I went to Amsterdam it was also easier to tell the difference between some of their strains, but in blind taste tests (in other words, black market) it gets hard for me to tell anything other than "this weed is much better and tastes much better than that weed" lol.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Back to your other post, I consider the gross alkaloids the ones that cause the unpleasant effects not seen with typical mu agonists like oxycodone and hydrocodone. There's so many alkaloids that I don't know which ones by name (though I suspect the yohimbine-like alkaloids are to blame) are causing the side effects but they're definately there which is why some strains generally feel "cleaner" or with less side-effects and more euphoria. An eye wiggle is also known as nystagmus, you can look it up if your interested. Basically it's a rapid shaking of the eyeballs from left to right which causes an anoying inability to focus your eyesight, it's quite common high doses. The more stimulating green veins as well as poor quality bali are notorious for causing this side effect according to anecdote. Bali also tends to have a higher probability for nausea, which I'm not sure I agree with.

"Jelly legs" is what I essentialy call weak, shaky legs (tremors), this feeling tends to be accompanied by nausea and weakness...not very fun at all. 7-OH Mitragynine is the most potent opioid alkaloid in the kratom leaf. More 7-OH Mitragynine, more opiate like clean euphoria. Though I'm honestly not entirely too sure how much of a contribution this alkaloid plays because I know neither the average percentage by weight this alkaloid is found nor have I eaten pure 7-OH M to make a comparison.

It really ISN'T true the garbage that people say about "if you have an addictive personality it's that way with ALL drugs".

Some people just react differently to certain things and Kratom seems not to have a negative-drug seeking-effect on me.

Definately, nobody is sentenced to addiction before trying a drug lol.
---
Oh and you can usually tell the diference between indica and sativa by the structure and smell of the bud, though it's not always 100% accurate and things get trick when dealing with hybrids. For the most part indicas are usually really dense, sticky buds with lots of resin/trichomes/crystals...whatever as well as thick smoke and a very pungeant scent. Sativas tend to be more "loose" in their form (less dense) and tend to smell more like pine or other earthy type scents, and produce a distinct cerbral, heady high. I'd take a picture to show comparison but I don't have any sativa. Anyways the average user also can't tell the difference so it's nothing too extreme.

 

[ThePredecessor]

What is the best strain in anyones opinion for a sedative buzz similar to an opiate?
I've heard Bali was the best for this but I would like other opinions.. THANKS !!

 

[FlawedByDesign]

^Bali hands down imho. Red Papua Reserve is also good but doesn't hold a candle to high quality bali.

 

[whiteroom67]

Red Vein Kali beats Bali any day for me, though it isn't commonly found throughout many vendors' inventories. Only one or two from what I've seen.

 

[weekend addiction]

I still find Kratom to be SO temperamental.

Too much and I won't get a good high.

I think I partially fucked my high today by taking 2 tspns because one of them was white maeng da and that stuff is more dense than the other strains I have so I think I consumed more than I would normally on tpspns of other strains even though 2tspns is usually a good dosage for me.

I guess getting a better scale would be good but USUALLY I get the dosage right these days. The last scale I bought was completely useless so I don't really feel like spending more on a scale now which might be equally worthless.

I'm still feeling it, but the euphoria isn't what it should be and I know that what euphoria I do have would go away entirely if I took more so I just have to wait and hopefully more of the euphoria comes back.

I feel like Kratom is the "PMsing temperamental chick of the drug world" lol...

Lol. Couldn't have said it better myself. I try to avoid the wonky eye effect and as long as I do I don't get any side effects so long as I remember my fiber!

 

[Snake_Eyes]

Red Vein Kali beats Bali any day for me, though it isn't commonly found throughout many vendors' inventories. Only one or two from what I've seen.

RVK is such an underrated strain. When I was fairly new to kratom I tried original bali and wasn't a fan maybe it was just a weak batch IDK. The vendor that I use doesn't carry bali so RVK has been my go to.

 

[FlawedByDesign]

Red Vein Kali beats Bali any day for me, though it isn't commonly found throughout many vendors' inventories. Only one or two from what I've seen.

Now you've peaked my intrest. White vein kali was by far the most stimulating strain I've tried, R.V.K. should be right up my alley. I remember seeing it offered but I'm so in love with bali I never thought to give it a try. Does it have the longer duration as well?

 

[《Plasticity》]

RVK is such an underrated strain.

Couldn't agree more, this was my go to strain when using a certain vendor. Far better than any bali that's for sure, this vendor also carried a kick ass red vein thai as well that was quite euphoric.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Is the RVK speedy at all?
My RVB isn't.
Gonna be trying GVB (which should be slightly more stimulating i hope)

Odd thing is I hate uppers, unless it is like an opiated stim feeling (like i used to get from mixing oxycodone with a little tramadol).
Usually regular Bali works fine for me.. but my vendor is running low and prices went up (why I got the cheaper more available RVB) so I gotta find a suitable replacement.

Need the motivational qualities of the kratom, but also the pain relieving and opiated feeling that goes along with it.

I found the RVK.. just hesitant on ordering due to the questions i just asked.

I'm very logical about pharmaceuticals but botany and "natural" highs, not so much lol.

-HOOD

 

[Snake_Eyes]

Couldn't agree more, this was my go to strain when using a certain vendor. Far better than any bali that's for sure, this vendor also carried a kick ass red vein thai as well that was quite euphoric.

I wonder if we used the same vendor because mine also carries a very good red vein thai.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Update:
Received 4oz RVB , 4oz GVB & 2oz PC/Bali
Mixed it all as thoroughly as i could so it is close even proportions for every dose.

Dosed 5g of the mix which should be roughly 2g RVB 2g GVB and 1g PC/Bali.. effects feel pretty calming with pain relief and mood elevation with a bit of energy and euphoria added.
Perfect for what I need it for plus it seems to be pretty well rounded effect wise, not too stimulating or calming.. just the perfect "middle-ground" between the two.

-HOOD