The Indigenous Australian thread

[chopped_chimp]

^The day when all cultures assimilate into one culture, is a day that will never come.

Countries like Australia do well in that they introduce "good" parts of other cultures but at the same time they stand up against actions that don't seem logical.

 

[up all night]

edit: Time and place, UAN. Time and place.

 

[preacha]

Truthfully I don't think there is anything that can be done to repair the damage. Let's face facts, history happened, and it can't unhappen.

The only thing I can think of that would help heal the rift is not just expecting Aboriginals to adapt to our culture, but taking on aspects of their culture into ours (I notice I'm still speaking very Them and Us, there's the problem in a nutshell). But I don't think that would ever happen.

The government keeping things behind the scenes and trying to placate the issue by just handing out money doesn't help at all. Rather than just thinking of Aboriginals as a problem that needs to be solved, and acting accordingly, they should be involved in any process that impacts on their future.

willing to point out the obvious problems with australian culture but completely inept in suggesting solutions

how left wing of you

 

[lostpunk5545]

[removed personal attack]

You asked to keep this thread clean, so lead by example

-kat

 

[preacha]

ok, fine, i'll try to be a bit more reasonable

let's start with why aborigines may be so far behind when compared to the integration of indigenous peoples of other countries, considering that each and every 'white invasion' hasn't really strayed too far from the original formula or "my god, they are a different colour, kill them".

1) we could stray dangerously into 'racist' waters, stating that aborigines aren't as evolved as other races within australia
2) african/'american indian' nations were a lot more advanced upon the white invasion of their lands when compared to aboriginal society

btw, using the old 'the aborigines lived in harmony with their land' excuse is not satisfactory.

hypothetically if we gave invasion another 2,000-3,000 years to occur, would the aboriginal society as a whole be more advanced than what we encountered upon settlement? to deny so is an insult to the aboriginal community. it's human nature to achieve tasks whilst expending minimal effort. eventually, given another 10,000 years or so without outside interference, the aboriginal society may have begun to resemble an extremely advanced civilisation on par with what we have today.

back to the topic; my opinion on even starting to begin integration (not that anyone asked for it like most threads)?

first, the economic integration through more aboriginal-owned businesses.

no, i do not mean the vendors selling dot paintings for $100 at a sunday market. actual businesses. after all, wealth begets wealth in addition to the pride of taking care of one's own property and seeing it thrive. an essay in newsweek a couple of years back regarding the operation of an aboriginal supermarket in the northern territory stated whilst they proprietors were extremely effective at maintaining the upkeep of a business, their prime motivation was not the pursuit of wealth, rather the pride of being constructive.

second, the breaking down of all large housing commission communities.

unfortunately, to deal with the economically challenged, we developed entire regions of suburbs into public housing, not just for aborigines but for people from all walks of life (my mother grew up in Doveton in Melbourne, an entire suburb established by the housing commision for public housing). regardless of race, growing up in a poor area usually leads to the cycle being repeated. however, the normal problems associated with being surrounded by poverty coupled with the plight of aboriginal people has lead to a hole many people believe they cannot crawl out of. it's time to abolish these communities and work towards further integration.

after all, we are a 'multicultural society', worrying about disrupting segregation should be the least of our concerns.

so we have two options for a final solution (poor choice of words, i know), integration or establishing a completely seperate state for aboriginals (like louis farrakhan from the nation of islam endorsed in regards to african americans, but in no way am i supporting this).

i'll agree with you, throwing money at the solution is not the answer (obviously, otherwise it would have worked by now).

i just get tired of reading regurgitated opinions written by optimistic people who don't have anything to contribute. two words: arts students

 

[m4dd0g]

^ For the most part I dont disagree

But from my experience people dont perform on their own dime.
Its only when you expect greatness and you believe what someone should be that they shine.

The contrary is also true. Aboriginals in Aust have had a really bad run. They were treated as animals when white people first came here they were treated as sub-human since and now their most public 'performance' as accurately stated by preacha means that society (despite its more liberal views) still regards the average aboriginal inferior.

So the cycle continues and it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with Australia's misconceptions and yesterdays baggage

 

[B9]

So the cycle continues and it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with Australia's misconceptions and yesterdays baggage

Agreed ........So fucking do SOMETHING!!!

 

[preacha]

like what zophen?

 

[Mary Poppins]

ok, fine, i'll try to be a bit more reasonable

let's start with why aborigines may be so far behind when compared to the integration of indigenous peoples of other countries, considering that each and every 'white invasion' hasn't really strayed too far from the original formula or "my god, they are a different colour, kill them".

1) we could stray dangerously into 'racist' waters, stating that aborigines aren't as evolved as other races within australia
2) african/'american indian' nations were a lot more advanced upon the white invasion of their lands when compared to aboriginal society

btw, using the old 'the aborigines lived in harmony with their land' excuse is not satisfactory.

hypothetically if we gave invasion another 2,000-3,000 years to occur, would the aboriginal society as a whole be more advanced than what we encountered upon settlement? to deny so is an insult to the aboriginal community. it's human nature to achieve tasks whilst expending minimal effort. eventually, given another 10,000 years or so without outside interference, the aboriginal society may have begun to resemble an extremely advanced civilisation on par with what we have today.

back to the topic; my opinion on even starting to begin integration (not that anyone asked for it like most threads)?

first, the economic integration through more aboriginal-owned businesses.

no, i do not mean the vendors selling dot paintings for $100 at a sunday market. actual businesses. after all, wealth begets wealth in addition to the pride of taking care of one's own property and seeing it thrive. an essay in newsweek a couple of years back regarding the operation of an aboriginal supermarket in the northern territory stated whilst they proprietors were extremely effective at maintaining the upkeep of a business, their prime motivation was not the pursuit of wealth, rather the pride of being constructive.

second, the breaking down of all large housing commission communities.

unfortunately, to deal with the economically challenged, we developed entire regions of suburbs into public housing, not just for aborigines but for people from all walks of life (my mother grew up in Doveton in Melbourne, an entire suburb established by the housing commision for public housing). regardless of race, growing up in a poor area usually leads to the cycle being repeated. however, the normal problems associated with being surrounded by poverty coupled with the plight of aboriginal people has lead to a hole many people believe they cannot crawl out of. it's time to abolish these communities and work towards further integration.

after all, we are a 'multicultural society', worrying about disrupting segregation should be the least of our concerns.

so we have two options for a final solution (poor choice of words, i know), integration or establishing a completely seperate state for aboriginals (like louis farrakhan from the nation of islam endorsed in regards to african americans, but in no way am i supporting this).

i'll agree with you, throwing money at the solution is not the answer (obviously, otherwise it would have worked by now).

i just get tired of reading regurgitated opinions written by optimistic people who don't have anything to contribute. two words: arts students

fantastic post preacha

I agree with what you said - my only concern would be the breakdown of aboriginal communities could produce, in effect, a similar result to what you are trying to discourage.

I don't think large-scale communities of strictly one demographic of people work - whether it is the politics/gossiping and artificiality plagued by areas confined to the very wealthy (though I'm not sure still anyone would see this as worse than a low socio-economic area) or whether it is the pervasive defeatist atmosphere and the behaviours that accompany groups of people who are conditioned to see 'failure' as their only option, and are therefore fiercely protective of the little they have. Diverse communities work best, and in a way sustain themselves by all types of people providing exposure to different ways and walks of life.

However, I worry that breaking these communities up will produce the behaviours that people exhibit when they are scared, alone and out of their comfort zone. Stereotypically, this could result in violence/alcoholism etc or any other negative behaviour associated with the Australian Aboriginal community. In turn this would (I would expect) cause a public backlash against the more thorough integration of Aboriginals throughout Australian communities...bringing us back to where we started.

I acknowledge that this is a step that needs to happen, but it will require a commitment from everyone (government, Aboriginal people, everyone else) as a unified body that they will stick this out and expend money, not at the symptomatic problems, but at the root cause - ie. providing culturally sensitive and necessary counselling, life coaching, whole community activities.

 

[keyholder]

I was discussing this issue with a friend of mine the other day.. And i'm in no way being racist or anything but in Sydney i'm REALLY sick of hearing the indigenous/aboriginals complaining and whining about how "THE WHITE MAN STOLE OUR LAND".. YES EVERYONE KNOWS YES WE FEEL FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES BUT IT HAS HAPPENED!! AND STOP WHINING AND BITCHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD OF MOVING ON.. If some of the aboriginal/indigenous people would use the time to further their education or look for jobs instead of sinking in their own sorrow that no one can change then they wouldn't be lining up every week at centrelink then complaining about the government.

 

[lostpunk5545]

^ Oversimplification (bordering on racism). That's all I'm going to say.

Preacha you bring up some really interesting points, some that have been bouncing around in my head.

But I have a lot more to say and I want to put it down in one block like I mentioned before, sometime when I'm not hungover as fuck.

 

[FourStringMuther]

maybe some aboriginals could do a little more to help themselves. instead of sittign around getting wasted and complaining about the white man

 

[lostpunk5545]

Maybe some white people could do a little more to educate themselves before spouting the same old rhetoric.

 

[FourStringMuther]

[pointless]

 

[swifty]

second, the breaking down of all large housing commission communities.

unfortunately, to deal with the economically challenged, we developed entire regions of suburbs into public housing, not just for aborigines but for people from all walks of life (my mother grew up in Doveton in Melbourne, an entire suburb established by the housing commision for public housing). regardless of race, growing up in a poor area usually leads to the cycle being repeated. however, the normal problems associated with being surrounded by poverty coupled with the plight of aboriginal people has lead to a hole many people believe they cannot crawl out of. it's time to abolish these communities and work towards further integration.

after all, we are a 'multicultural society', worrying about disrupting segregation should be the least of our concerns.

They've already started doing this to some extent in Perth, its having moderate success, but I suppose moderate success is better than none. However the flipside of this is, due to the booming real estate market here, it pushes the prices of rent/accommodation up and forces those less financially capable into the same areas anyway, perhaps it's a case of too little, too late in regards to this...

i just get tired of reading regurgitated opinions written by optimistic people who don't have anything to contribute. two words: arts students

I agree with this whole heartedly.

There comes a time when everyone has to say enough's enough! It happened. It can't unhappen, we have to look for a mutually beneficial solution. As the old saying goes, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem...

 

[breakyaself]

maybe some aboriginals could do a little more to help themselves. instead of sittign around getting wasted and complaining about the white man

[removed personal attack]

Yarni, can you post that video thats on your LJ as a testament to the purposefulness of the Aboriginal community down at Redfern ?

Thanks chicken

 

[Beatlebot]

I think it's important to remind people just why aboriginal people are currently suffering so much, so talking about it helps. You need to look to the past to help understand the present. Discussions like this help raise awareness.

 

[up all night]

[removed quote from edited post]

Yarni, can you post that video thats on your LJ as a testament to the purposefulness of the Aboriginal community down at Redfern ?

Thanks chicken

haha I did post it in here but then decided it wasn't really appropriate and deleted it. :D

 

[zephyr]

I've yet to see the racist, meat pie eating, football worshiping, Australian culture ever take a blow, so besides which, you're wrong.

This is what the lounge is for.

 

[zephyr]

1) we could stray dangerously into 'racist' waters, stating that aborigines aren't as evolved as other races within australia
2) african/'american indian' nations were a lot more advanced upon the white invasion of their lands when compared to aboriginal society

so we have two options for a final solution (poor choice of words, i know), integration or establishing a completely seperate state for aboriginals (like louis farrakhan from the nation of islam endorsed in regards to african americans, but in no way am i supporting this).

The Inuits in Canada were taken from their native lands and forced into "reservations" in the 1950's- which are basic camps on the outskirts of the major cities in some provinces. There is a reservation on the outskirts of my family's home town in Nova Scotia but the larger ones are on the west coast. They were taken there and promised health care, schools, jobs, a better life and a better future.

Cut to 2007. None of promises made were kept. They have been forgotten about and silenced. No one hears about the plight of the people still stuck in these reservations. Its not because people don't care about them, its just never mentioned at all as these people do not have a voice in the general public.

The inuits were never intergrated not were they given a separate state by being taken from their lands and put somewhere that was convenient for the government of the time.

Now the Inuits of the Northern Territories are being given a oice and a chance to find their old way of life again. But they need snowmobiles, gas, electricity, ray-bans....they are not the old school native Inuit anymore. Its just too late for them to go back to totally self sufficient lifestyles.

Here its the same. Once people lost the ability to live as they once did they need goods and services from the people who took their skills away from them.