The idea of being "CLEAN" - How do you define it? (Poll, but please reply too!)

[Khadijah]

number 2.. number 3 is risky. with people ive heard of... they feel good off alcohol or weed or whatever and it reminds them of how amazing the first high off their DOC felt like. and then they crave. then it cycles

but...Do you have any experience with this yourself?

I aint saying nobody who never been addicted can answer. Its open to everybody. But you really dont know how it works if you aint been in those shoes.

People you heard of? Who?

Thats the thing--That is the lie that gets spread by NA groups, etc, doctors--You addicted to one, you addicted to all! But it really aint like that for most addicts.

Smokin weed has always been extremely helpful to me and made me NOT want to use heroin or opiates. It makes me think thru all the horrible shit i done and been thru, and i would always feel like "yo....WTF is WRONG with me? Why do i stick needles in my arm? This shit is pathetic" when i would smoke.

It definately didnt put me on the "slippery slope" of wanting more and better highs. just sayin.

 

[Znegative]

whenever I smoke weed I always want to use heroin, but I've realized that that's not because of the fact that I've stimulated some part of my brain that makes me spiral towards and endless addiction, it's mainly because weed makes me freak out so bad that I don't care if I relapse haha.

I used to really believe in this NA/AA school of thought, and usually yeah, if I take a xanax, I want to use dope, but I'm starting to wonder if I'm just conditioned into thinking that way now after so many people enforcing that idea in my head. It's kind of a dangerous thing to preach if you think about it, because it makes someone like me think "oh no, I've taken an ambien! all drugs are the same, therefore ambien is just as bad as heroin, and since I already took the ambien, I wouldn't be sinking any lower if I went and shot some heroin, and seeing as I already fucked up, well I might as well get a good high out of my relapse!"

 

[Khadijah]

exactly yo......"If i use just one bag of dope i am relapsed and I aint gonna be able to control myself. I just woke up the beast inside! so that means that im already screwed anyways and i might as well do it big if ima do it at all!"

That teaching like they do really dooms you to makin it worse. i could shoot dope for a day, get high and enjoy it and then go back on my methadone and not feel like i relapsed at all and still consider myself clean, just minus the one day that i used for. I woulda been clean for 195 days, but instead it is a count of 194. I wouldnt start counting back from zero again.

but the NA person is like, well that one shot is a relapse, i guess im screwed now. im an addict, thats wat we do. I am gonna go out of control, becuz I cant have just one.

They honestly believe that so they end up doing it becuz its the shit they been told they will do. like it never occurs to them that they aint gotta keep doin it, and that they could just walk away. You can do it, we all can but after you taught for so long that you cant, then you really believe you cant. Which makes it true , and you honestly cant, becuz thats wat you believe. its twisted the way that the program can actually make people fail even worse than they woulda, if they didnt believe all that 12 step bullshit.


Also i think its important that u made a point to say that when u smoke bud it makes u want to use dope--But not becuz the reason that the program people all believe. Its just that you dont like the effects of the weed and it fucks you up in a way that you dont like, and the mental state is so shitty and unpleasant that you would do anything to excape from it. And heroin is the thing that would bring yu back down to reality and calm you down.

So it aint that the weed is triggering some kind of reflex , reaction in ur brain that is hitting the "want drugs" switch.

like if a person takes acid, and starts flippin the fuck out, and they want to do some dope becuz it will calm t hem down and bring down the intensity of their trip a little bit.

That dont mean that taking LSD causes your brain to want to do heroin. Its a totally un-linked thing. It aint a cause. Its just a side effect.

"Eating Saltine crackers triggers a reflex in the brain that causes a person to crave fluids! No, its just that eatin something salty makes you thirsty. it aint some kind of brain chemical inter connection shit that like triggers this certain craving response. The same shit for smokin weed. If you do a drug that makes you feel unpleasant in a certain way and its a strong feeling that you feel mad intense, then you gonna want to take somethin else to calm you down or make you feel better. It aint that the weed hit the "heroin craving" button in your brain and caused you to crave dope SIMPLY BECUZ U SMOKED IT....Its the side effects related to each of the things that are related. it aint a simple cause and effect like the 12 step programs and rehab doctors try to say it is.

 

[Tommyboy]

if I take a xanax, I want to use dope, but I'm starting to wonder if I'm just conditioned into thinking that way now after so many people enforcing that idea in my head.

I find benzos, particularly xanax made me want to do other drugs sometimes. The prescription actually lists "drug-seeking behavior" as one of the possible side effects. I remember last summer when I was prescribed xanax I wouldn't be feening, but if I took a xanax then 30 mins later I was like "fck it" and would call up my dope dealer.

 

[Northside]

I've been clean over 8 years- that's by my own standard and it means I have been off heroin. I smoke pot and drink regularly, and I take pills, including opiates, occasionally.

I think of myself as an ex-junkie, heroin made me a junkie and the drugs I use now do not lead me into that kind of behavior so for me not shooting /doing dope = clean.

 

[jojo87]

I consider myself clean, i qiut using ice a year and a half ago, but i smoke cigarettes daily and drink coffee and have the occasional drink of alcohol. I dont know now im confused am i clean? isnt it normal too drink coffee and drink liqiur occasionally and smoke cigarettes?

 

[ados]

I would say #2. When I am off of opiates for awhile, and I decide to get stoned one night, I still consider that clean, because I am not getting high all day everyday. Really...who can go with completely no recreational drugs at all? That's how people go fucking crazy. The worst point of my life was when I was "clean" of ALL drugs for 9-10 months, and ended up in a psych ward for a week for nearly offing myself.

 

[Pillthrill]

My clean right now is #3, I'm not ready for more than that yet.

 

[rollingstoned!]

1. Being clean from all drugs.
2. Doing drugs but legimately trying real hard to do your best in life and be an asshole as less as possible.

 

[Sweet P]

#3 - Clean is: You are off the drug(s) that you were addicted to, and not abusing any drugs. Some smoking weed is OK, a little drinking is OK, as long as you aint overdoing it and are using it healthily and in moderation. Taking prescribed drugs AS PRESCRIBED, not abusing any drugs, and being on Methadone or Suboxone or any psych meds are OK.

This. To me, "clean" is being off the drugs you were addicted to and not abusing any other drugs. If we took the whole abstinence approach, where "clean" means not using any drugs at all (including alcohol or even prescription drugs), then not many people in the would be considered clean!

 

[phazeshifter]

for me personally..... it would be Number 3

 

[bev49]

To me being clean has to do with behavior and not chemicals. For example, a long time ago, I was shooting heroin. I was a heroin pig, didn't not work, did mucho criminal shit for heroin, and more or less lived for the next fix. That is NOT clean. Then I got on a methadone program. For the first few years, I continued to get high however. Used H on occasion but it was hard to feel it through the meth so quit that but still did pills to boost the meth, drank WAYYY too much also. (Smoked weed but thats a whole other argument. It should be legal medically and recreationally. I mean alcohol is legal so gimme a break so weed doesnt count). I wasn't clean then either. After awhile I settled into the methadone and stopped getting high, got a job, raised my kids, lived life "normally" whatever that means. That WAS clean regardless of being on methadone. I have argued this point endlessly with people who feel if you're on meth or sub you aren't clean and to them I say bullshit. If you aren't exhibit addict behavior, you are clean. Period. Sorry I didnt go by the poll. Just had to give my opinion here. Too many holier than thou people think you are only clean if you are chemically drug free and that ain't necessarily so.

 

[Tommyboy]

What about if your maintainance drug is your DOC?

I know a lot of people posted saying that they considered a person to be clean if they no longer were using their DOC. So I figured I would throw a curveball in here, and ask if you would still consider someone to be clean if they are a heroin addict that is now on heroin maintainance? Heroin is currently being used for maintainance in Switzerland, and is used in experimental trials in other areas.

So for those of you that consider somebody on methadone or bupe maintainance to be clean if the person no longer uses heroin recreationally and takes their meds as prescribed, how do you feel about people using heroin at clinics under a doctors supervision?.... And I don't mean the people that just go to the supervised injection sites that are in Vancouver and maybe some other places, I mean the actualy maintainance places.

Just trying to mix things up, and keep things interesting in this thread

 

[SirTophamHat]

I would say #3.

I define dirty being addicted to something that has an apparent/measurable negative effect on one's life, where help or an intervention of sorts is in order.

If you are able to use lighter recreational drugs occasionally without falling back into regular use or dependence then #3 seems acceptable, then again I know some people, including myself, who would be better off @ #2.

 

[bev49]

I would consider someone on heroin maintenance to be clean, just as someone on methadone or bupe is. Right now I take sub, used to be on methado ne long term. I also take insulin because I need to. The idea of clean is all about behaviors. If you are living your life in a responsible manner and taking your med as perscribed, you are clean in my book. I think Heroin programs are a good idea but they would never have them in the US. The big pharmaceutical companies with their lobbyists in Washington would never stand for it.

 

[Ne0]

"#1 - Clean is: NO DRUGS AT ALL, OF ANY KIND. No using any drug, regardless of if its one you are addicted to. No Methadone or Suboxone, no psychiatric meds even if they are prescribed to you, no medications, prescriptions, or drugs of ANY KIND, and NO DRINKING EITHER."

Why didnt you mention alcohol, its one of most hard drugs there is and very bad for you. I see lots of "ex-junkies" who still drink alcohol, no they are not clean from drugs then

 

[hydrochron]

First I would like to just say, If you were one of those people addicted to everything at once, taking massive amounts of drugs. It's about slowly getting clean and making new standards. I think "being clean" is always changing. Especially if your quiting 1 thing at a time.

However I think that if you have a 1 day binge even on your drug of choice, your still clean. It's all about your perception and attitude.

 

[Jesusgreen]

I voted 4, because I believe being "Clean" is using any drugs you use responsibly, with proper harm reduction methods - not being caught up in a habit - the moment that you need a drug or struggle without it - you are not "Clean" in my opinion. However it is impossible to avoid *all* drugs really, as people seem to forget things like Caffeine, hell, even Sugar - which is why I think that rather than striving to use no drugs, people should use whichever drugs they enjoy - safely and responsibly, and only to an extent that doesn't have a negative effect on their life in any way.

 

[Carl Landrover]

Did not really read through the thread aside from the first post.

Voted 1 as clean to me means substance free. I define substance as any drug or chemical that is taken that is not found in common foods and in common meals.

However, I also agree with parts of the 3rd as option as I think someone who smokes weed once in a while or has the occasional drink to be considered clean as well.


Using anything daily is not clean imo. If I want caffeine I take No-Doz, as I don't drink coffee, so if I were taking caffeine daily I'd feel like I wasn't clean.

I do NOT consider being on suboxone or methadone being clean. You could say you were clean from heroin or oxy or whatever you're opiate of choice was, but I definitely do not consider that clean.


Having any sort of dependency would not be considered clean. Caffeine and cigarettes are grey areas on this because of their legal standing. For someone who wasn't me than I wouldn't think of a cigarette smoker and coffee drinker as not being clean, however if I did that I wouldn't consider myself clean.

 

[Khadijah]

"#1 - Clean is: NO DRUGS AT ALL, OF ANY KIND. No using any drug, regardless of if its one you are addicted to. No Methadone or Suboxone, no psychiatric meds even if they are prescribed to you, no medications, prescriptions, or drugs of ANY KIND, and NO DRINKING EITHER."

Why didnt you mention alcohol, its one of most hard drugs there is and very bad for you. I see lots of "ex-junkies" who still drink alcohol, no they are not clean from drugs then

Are you serious? Can you read yo? it very clearly mentions alcohol right there. See where it says "NO DRINKING"? 8(

Anyways, carl i am curious how u feel about psychiatric medications or other medications then. are you not clean if you are taking antidepressants for example, or if you take insulin for diabetes, etc. Since the first category does say no psych meds, but u didnt include that in ur description i aint sure if u just didnt specifically say it but did include it, or if u dont think that it applies to psych meds and only meds that are possibly abusable.

also is a person not clean if they are a past heroin addict lets say, that aint used for many years, and dont use no maintainenace drugs.

and say they get in a terrible car crash and crush their spine needing serious surgery and leaving them in severe, excruciating pain so they cant barely even move. if the hospital hooks them up to a morphine drip, (they dont ask for pain meds, but the doctors say it is clearly very necessary and would be absolutely insane not to put them on pain meds or they could go into intense shock) are they now not clean?