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The Ice Age - Four Corners Mon 20th

^Hehe, yea... it's usually pretty hard watching drug documentaries in front of parents, or other loved ones that don't know of your "recreational lifestyle".
I usually just tut and shake my head when I see someone smoking ice, or injecting it on television, but at the same time can't help but think that my parents, or friends know that it's all an act.
About the vicious cycle that is: waiting for dole payment, going out to score, binging and then crashing for a few days. I can relate to that, as myself and other friends have been here.
It's a friggen horrible circle, in-which I have some friends that are terribly stuck in at the moment.
It's like once they get paid, they emerge from this depressive state they have been in for 2 odd weeks and you watch them get so happy they are paid, they are almost manic. Then once the money and the gear goes, it's back to hibernation. Not a great lifestyle.

In the documentary, regarding that guys girlfriend who is pregnant. I knew she was an Ice user from the moment I saw her sunken in cheeks and eyes. They don't even address this fact for a while, and somehow I still knew. It's like the chronic users have this malnourished look about them.

It is sad about the I.T. guy (forgot his name), because unlike the other users he is actually trying to make an effort. Even though he's failed numerous times, I like to give credit where it's due and you can tell the lifestyle doesn't properly suit him. I hope after he gets out of prison he doesn't fall back into the hellhole that would be Ice-addiction.
 
Sweeeet, just saw this thread and its 10:20pm on Wednesday... perfect timing.

*fetches popcorn*
 
Personally I would have preferred a more balanced view of the drug. However I can see that anyone who isn't 'down and out' is hardly going to want to go on National TV claiming they use crystal meth on weekends, can see it could turn to trouble but are managing it.

I worry about the ethics - as was already mentioned - these people were hardly in a state to give informed consent for having their identities and habits screened all over the country.

does everyone really relate to these people? Yes I can see, of those in my circle of friends who have become involved in crystal, that it can get pretty messy and has taken over people's lives for a little while, but of those I know, they have gotten out of it and have moved on.

I don't want to portray that ice/crystal is harmless, it's obviously not, but I reckon most people who watched the show who have no other source of info on crystal, will think "if my son/daughter uses this drug, they will turn into a raving lunatic". Ice is the new heroin, according to 4 Corners....
 
Agree with the sentiments above.

From my perspective, the two cases shown in the episode were on the more extreme end of the spectrum of possible end results of meth usage. Even the more moderate case of the ex-IT guy was more extreme than any meth case I have encountered within my circle of friends; not to say it doesn't happen.

What I see the potential for is that this drug is going to be demonised in the same way heroin was, which is unfortunate because it just clouds the problem and makes it harder to sort fact from sensationalist outcry.

On the other hand, others might argue that such a portryal is good because the meth problem has grown out of a complacency from many users who think the drug is not as harmful as heroin.

Nevertheless, both of the users shown in the program were also using heroin on top of meth... I mean... how relevant is that to many of us here who use the drug within the social contexts of partying and nightclubbing???

Alas, as with any documentary of this type, as Tronica points out above, it's often those at the lowest rungs of society that have nothing left to lose who are willing to put their hands up to be covered by such programmes.

The statement in the middle of the program that the drug is used across the entire spectrum of society including in the gay scene, by young people, partygoers, shiftworkers, etc was really only a token gesture.

One that will be long forgotten by people who view the program and come away with lasting impressions from watching meth users digging their way through maggot-infested rubbish dumps. :|
 
I felt it was a very good doco. It showed all things junkee's do!

Make excuses for their use!


I felt the doco was good, the only 2 things I felt was a bit over the top was showing addicts hammering up their arms! and- *ice has only been around for a few years, no-one knows the long term effects*

Well if you junkee's wanna call your *3year* use short term look how FUCKED you are from your *short term* abuse, maybe look at that!
Sick of junkee's and their excuses.... ESPECIALLY POT JUNKEE'S! it's all excuses excuses, I NEED BONGS TO SLEEP= Yes, my pretty you keep telling yourself that!

As for the guy using Harry to get off the ice at night to sleep- WTF, if u used neither you could sleep fool!

Moderation and common sense is the key! I've smoked alot of ice just recently and using my common sense I am not an addict! Oh andI loved the *rave* they filmed 8)

SpecTBK=D
 
Special-T.B.K said:
I felt it was a very good doco. It showed all things junkee's do!

Make excuses for their use!


I felt the doco was good, the only 2 things I felt was a bit over the top was showing addicts hammering up their arms! and- *ice has only been around for a few years, no-one knows the long term effects*

Well if you junkee's wanna call your *3year* use short term look how FUCKED you are from your *short term* abuse, maybe look at that!
Sick of junkee's and their excuses.... ESPECIALLY POT JUNKEE'S! it's all excuses excuses, I NEED BONGS TO SLEEP= Yes, my pretty you keep telling yourself that!

As for the guy using Harry to get off the ice at night to sleep- WTF, if u used neither you could sleep fool!

Moderation and common sense is the key! I've smoked alot of ice just recently and using my common sense I am not an addict! Oh andI loved the *rave* they filmed 8)

SpecTBK=D
Click to expand...

I think you've missed the point a bit.

The users on the documentary were very realistic about their usage and still continued to do it anyway. Yeah they came off a little crass and unpolished but they weren't totally stupid either.

Yes they were addicted, yes they fell into the stereotypical junkie genre but at least they weren't denying they were a) fucked up, b) addicted and c) on the road to total obliteration.

The negative effects they have experienced are short term effects, I think that the one user was implying was the relative shortness of use of the drug in broader society. Even a decade isn't really that long in terms of usage.

Will users experience issues that aren't immediatley evident in 10, 20 or 50 years from now? That is the question that was basically asked not whether a 9 day no sleep, no eating, meth stabbing frenzy is going to have any health detriments, of course it is.

It's easy to dimiss the facts about meth, its even easier to take the piss out of a documentary that probably doesn't relate to 90% of the users on Bluelight but there is no point belitting something that clearly shows where the negative meth spiral can take some people.

On the flip side it seems that the users on the documentary are in that demographic of people who are predisposed either via upbringing or social circles who seem to fall into these addictive and negative circles. I guess the harm reduction for methamphetamine use needs to probably address those issue first and foremost.
 
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^^^
I didn't miss any point. I agree with you completely.

But statements like, *Ohh I'm pregnant I smoke it, but at least I dont inject it!*

*i'm going to adopt the kid out so i'll write him a letter saying that I *didn't give him away** (wtf)

*I don't know why I use it, I just do, I have to*

I completely agree RUSKI... I just feel, all junkies just continually make excuses and I've known a few (some were good friends) and they make excuse after excuse, you've tried to help them but you can't do anything about it, so the friendship goes... it's very unfortunate when you try everything and they're right, you're wrong always finding some lame ass excuse condoning their use!

As for, Unpolished etc... but not stupid, than explain to me what a 160km/hr chase through suburbia is? As for long term users- if you mean on an addict basis I don't think they will be alive after 15-20years of Ice abuse... Heroin junkees struggle that and Ice is more debilitating (IMO) than Heroin!

SpecTBK=D
 
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You are right and a perfect example was the user who had "skin parasites". He was a prime example of the self justification machine. The mere pause that he had before answering the final question "Do you think you should stop using methamphetamine?" was an excellent example of that.

But I tend to think that the excuses are symptom of the drug usage. I guess thats why absitence is recommended by most, why dabble with something that you may not be able to reckon with?

It's easier to not make a change than make changes I guess.
 
They didnt post my comments on the forum :( not happy, haha, was good except all 'addics' i know do not work on 2 week cycle nor do they only spend 300 on their ice in that fortnight, they work as day to day and use whenever they can, those junkies were not really like the ice children i know. Little things about the show pissed me off, also that ice looked like at was bit dirty, the gear i have seen of friends and shit is a lot bigger shards and cleaner looking, anone else agree?
 
^ I know one of the bags they had wouldn't even be classified as Ice. It had yellow specks in it and was very pastey. That would pass off as just street-standard speed/louie around here. Although towards the end, one of the bags they had, had some pretty nice looking crystal clear shards in them.
One of the guy's whole body was fucked from injecteing that poison into it. I don't know how people can do that shit to themselves.
 
Yay for perpetuating misuse of street terminology. Why can't they just call a spade a spade.

I tend to agree though, the quality of stuff they were getting wasn't marvelous at the beginning of the program. But in the end, its all meth. You can call it what you want, speed, louie, ice, crystal.. whatever.. its all meth. Did they stipulate what they were mixing the meth with later on in the program? The two guys were injecting a mixture of something? Can't remember.
 
They definitely didn't say what the other drug was. Perhaps they didn't want to give anyone ideas... ?
 
^ I think the journo was keen to focus on meth alone. There were numerous other drugs being used by the doco subjects, but these were all glossed over. If you check out the interview with Alex Wodak, the journo keeps trying to get Alex to agree to statements like "crystal meth is worse than heroin", which of course Alex refused to do. You can't explain the harms caused by a particular substance without examining the context of use, and the individuals using as well.

This is what shat me about the doco - very much fear mongering approach, with no consideration of any underlying theory of substance use. The implied models were the moral model (drug users are morally weak), the temperance model (meth is too dangerous to be allowed to exist) and the disease model (habitual meth users have a disease - "addiction"). Any more sophisticated social learning model was not even implicitly discussed.

Also factual inaccuracies about meth. The drug was first synthesised in 1919, and has been widely used ever since. We know a fuckton about effects of use. It was a criminal ommission not to mention this.

Also referring to the 2 week bupe treatment as a failure because he continued to smoke meth - but it's a treatment for his heroin use you dickhead.

Also some of the language on this thread - "scum" and "junkie" are pretty inflammatory terms. Many in the straight world would automatically label all of us here on BL the same way. Do we want to perpetuate this kind of damaging labelling?
 
While i do think some aspects of this documentary were sensationalised i sat and watched it - sombre and silent. :\ I have gotten over a meth addiction that very nearly sucked the life outta me. I started mixing with people like those in the documentary and i probably was behaving like some of them too. I could totally relate to the guy with the 'ice bugs' - after a week long binge, psychotic and paranoid i just could NOT stop picking my skin. Couldn't leave the house, could hardly stand up from exhaustion. I am an intelligent person with a career in the health profession - i know what drugs do, i fell into a hideous black hole that i fought hard to get out of.

It's a knife edge, meth addiction. Was speaking with a good friend on the weekend about the whole issue and she said when i was at my worst she didn't know if i was gonna make it. The people on the documentary are the unfortunate souls that never did, it's hard when you're that far gone to make a recovery but its certainly not impossible, there is hope for all, if for some only a miniscule glimmer.

I have seen a colleague - ok we're nurses - get totally taken over by meth. In a year this strong together person lost everything, house, car, job the lot - she became like one of those 'derranged' people on the documentary. IT CAN AND DOES HAPPEN I'VE SEEN IT and it nearly happened to me.

People need to know what they're dealing with in meth. It's dirty and sneaky.
Yes the doco was somewhat sensationalised but there was certainly truths encapsulated in it.
 
Thanks II - you raise a good point, worth reinforcing. Crystal meth is a powerful form of a powerful drug, and needs to be treated as such.

However, by not discussing the individual and cultural factors that influence the harm caused by crystal meth, the doco really doesn't help prevent these harms.

My concern is that new users will discount the extreme outcomes shown in the doco, and hence not protect themselves from these things happening to them. It is possible to use meth responsibly - but this is never discussed. Instead, we are left with the erroneous view of a "killer drug" that will inevitably kidnap people's free will.
 
An interesting documentary. Very confronting but on the whole i thought this would serve more as proaganda for the government/anti-drug campaigners than a good piece of objective, investigative journalism. Where were the educated and responsible recreational users who had no problem controlling their use, or the people that had seen the dark side and made it back ???
 
I agree with you, Ayjay

Timmmmmy said:
Where were the educated and responsible recreational users who had no problem controlling their use, or the people that had seen the dark side and made it back ???
Click to expand...

Exactly. Well who would go on national television and represent this large group of people? What would that mean for their life, if they admitted they were recreational meth users?

I've certainly seen shows where recovered former drug users talk about it - but that usually portrays a message of "don't do it" instead of "show respect for this drug".

As Ayjay said, I think it will just alienate people who do take meth recreationally because they won't relate to the hard end of things that was depicted. Although a lot of people on this site (and others - this show seems to be discussed everywhere) have seen 'truths' in the stories of these people...
 
I think if nothing else it will bring to light a major point of the documentry, that being that there is simply no avenue of tapered withdrawal from meth as there is with H.

I found it really funny when "mick" and the garbage chick were at the traffic lights and Mick shouts out "They're making a documentry on scum bags!! And we're the leaders!!" or something to that effect. And the other guy on screen sort of cringed and ignored him completely. Fuck that was funny.
 
New ice age is upon us and we must act now
By Rob Moodie
April 2, 2006

It is time to rethink our approach to dangerous, illegal 'party' drugs.

METHAMPHETAMINES are the hot item on the drug markets. They have replaced amphetamines and come as a powder (speed), oily form (base) and crystals, known as ice. In particular it is the ice that has police, ambulance and hospital staff very worried.

It's pure, cheap, highly addictive and readily available. It gives the highest of highs as well as the lowest of lows. It can produce delusions, hallucinations and paranoia that can result in violent behaviour. US studies have linked ice use to increased risk of sexually transmissible infections and HIV particularly among gay men, and blood-borne viruses among those who inject.

Ice is a synthetically produced stimulant that can be smoked, injected, snorted, swallowed or inserted anally. It takes only seven seconds from taking a puff to the instant brain hit, three times faster than injecting. Dependent users spiral from highs lasting days into withdrawal and depression.

Australia has the gold medal for amphetamine usage, according to the latest World Drug Report. The National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre estimates that almost one in 10 Australians has tried amphetamines. About half a million are current users with an estimated 73,000 dependent users.

According to the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare, hospital admissions for psychosis due to amphetamines has increased by 60 per cent from 2000 to 2004. Western Australia, South Australia, Queensland and NSW have been hardest hit.

Dr Venita Munir of St Vincent's Hospital, Melbourne, talks of two groups of users. The first comprises hard-core injecting drug users, who may add other drugs, such as heroin, and whose lives are often completely disconnected from the mainstream.

The other group, recreational users, take ice with ketamine and ecstasy and their lives are much more functional. They have jobs and access to greater levels of support.

Of course the latter can move from using speed to base to ice along with growing dependence and increasingly chaotic lives.

The new ice age presents formidable challenges to the police, to ambulance officers and to staff in emergency rooms, psychiatric services and drug treatment services. Inspector Steve James, of the Victoria Police, says the force must develop new methods of restraint, as existing methods, such as capsicum spray, often prove fruitless. Restraint requires diversion of resources as police often have to mind violent users in hospitals and police cells over several days.

St Vincent's Hospital in Sydney has responded by building its own rooms to contain violent ice users. At St Vincent's in Melbourne, there is a six-man team that welcomes, sedates and restrains violent patients.

Police have had to rethink their tactics of enforcement, as methamphetamines can be produced in small clandestine labs across Australia. Last year Victoria Police shut down 26 clandestine labs. They have entered into a series of partnerships, including one with the Real Estate Institute of Victoria to minimise the chance of rental properties becoming amphetamine labs.

Some experts suggest that the heroin drought has been replaced by an ice mountain, with users moving from heroin to ice. Our challenge is how to adequately police methamphetamines while preventing even nastier and more addictive drugs coming on to the market.

Perhaps the most urgent need is to expand treatment options that are currently limited to the generic forms of detoxification, rehabilitation and counselling. Specific services and specific pharmacotherapies do not exist, which is particularly relevant to long-term problematic users.

Dr Alex Wodak, director, alcohol and drug services at St Vincent's Sydney, says it is notoriously difficult to attract and retain amphetamine users simply because there is little to offer. His submission to conduct a trial of dexamphetamine substitution, much in the same way we use methadone for heroin users, continues to fall on deaf ears. Shouldn't someone be listening?

Dr Rob Moodie is the chief executive of VicHealth.
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From The Age
 
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