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-The- Heroin & Opioid Mega Discussion Thread (Volumes 1+2 Merged)

aroma borealis said:
I desperately need advice. Please move this if it's not in the right place. I'm trying to go on subutex maintenance after a 10-13 bag a day heroin habit. I went into precipitated withdrawals after taking the subs too soon and had to shoot thru it with heroin, which is dangerous. I tried again and got 27hours into withdrawal, couldnt stand it anymore, and relapsed on heroin again just now. I have really slow metabolism and am 64 years old. I wanted to go the drug replacement therapy route because I've got clean before and put my heart and soul into NA, but after a few years end up relapsing into another habit worse than before out of social anxiety and horrible loneliness. I'm afraid of methadone maintenance because I'm afraid of not being able to stand the withdrawals. I dont know where to turn and am feeling suicidal, like such a failure for not being able to withdraw long enough to start the subs. I really think these could work for me if I could ever manage to get on them. Help, please! I'm in a fucked up place right now.
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Is there some kind of treatment facility you could access where they could help you through the withdrawal until you can start taking suboxone?
 
The thought of staying on methadone for the rest of my life is so depressing that frankly I'd rather be dead. I know of a good in-patient detox I used once before. I would need them to.give me a cheap bed like I did before, which involved getting on the waiting list for a couple weeks and calling in everyday, which I could do. I dont know if they would cooperate in a plan to induct me on to subutex maintenance or if they would only do a 10 day or so methadone or sub taper to get clean. I will look into this. Does anyone know if you can go on to subs if you dont have any opiates in your system, or hardly any at all? Cause this is where this detox would leave me, and I need a drug replacement therapy plan this time around. Otherwise, the PAWS is so bad I end up relapsing. Thanks for your comments.
 
I have also been on methadone and I'm don't think the change to subs would be the best solution IMO/E.
Both medications are very hard to get off and the more you use the further you get from being totally free.
It's very difficult to quit them as you tend to go through emotional issues when you do.
If you start lowering the dosages to the point you may w/d you might just try to get off for good.
Difficult but possible! And definitely worth trying.
Good luck!
Erik
 
aroma borealis said:
The thought of staying on methadone for the rest of my life is so depressing that frankly I'd rather be dead. I know of a good in-patient detox I used once before. I would need them to.give me a cheap bed like I did before, which involved getting on the waiting list for a couple weeks and calling in everyday, which I could do. I dont know if they would cooperate in a plan to induct me on to subutex maintenance or if they would only do a 10 day or so methadone or sub taper to get clean. I will look into this. Does anyone know if you can go on to subs if you dont have any opiates in your system, or hardly any at all? Cause this is where this detox would leave me, and I need a drug replacement therapy plan this time around. Otherwise, the PAWS is so bad I end up relapsing. Thanks for your comments.
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I'm sure you could get a sub doctor to write the script if you bring documentation or have the detox call him before hand. I actually disagree with erikmen on this one. I wouldn't be able to stay clean through PAWS either. And at the end of the day Sub is an easier addiction to deal with then heroin or methadone as long as you can afford the script.
 
I have a sub doc who wrote the scrip, and have a bottle of 60 subutex sitting in my drawer waiting for me to take em. To my surprise, my insurance actually covered it and my copay was very low, under 20 bucks. I used to agree with Erikmen very strongly, but I've repeated the pattern of detoxing, suffering from PAWS, going the 12-step route -- sponsor, writing and doing all 12 steps, daily meetings, sharing in the meetings, working with newcomers -- but after a few years of cleantime in which I felt lonely, depressed, isolated, and unable to get pleasure from pretty much anything, I ended up with yet another habit. I feel like I need to try something different, and people on here and in my life say good thingd about how longterm sub use has done well by them. I take a mood stabilizer for my bipolar that keeps episodes of that at bay and see a therapist regularly. He's on methadone maintenance btw, haha. The problem is that I just havent been able to hang tough long enough to start subs. A lot of it is that I'm trying to do it alone in my apartment with no support from anyone. The rest of it that has made me fail is that my metabolism is so slow that I have to wait 36 or even 48 hours or maybe even more my sub doc says. The first time I scored 17 o n that COWS scale so I took 2 mg and went into precipitated withdrawals. I couldnt stand that horror, so I shot through it with heroin, which worked. I had been only 18 hours in withdrawal and that's why, the sub doc said. He said wait til I'm at 15 on the scale, and 36 to 48 hours from my last dose. I got to 27 hours and 14 on the scale when I gave up and used. I felt horrible but my eyes were still pinned, which he said was a major indicator. Maybe the 3rd times the charm. I'm gonna try to get a friend to sit with me next time. He seems like some issues of his own have resolved so he might be able to help me now. Thanks for your comments. Except i think saying to go on methadone for life was kind of mean.
 
I hear you! In order to stay off methadone for at least 48 hours you´ll probably need medical support. You should not be alone.
I also agree that methadone should not be used for life (it seems like a sentence to me) so try to get someone close to you to help you through this. Keep us posted. And good luck!
Erik
 
I'm freaking out bigtime now. I called this rehab that my sub doc is affiliated with to see if I could go in there to do the induction. My insurance wont cover it, but maybe I could scrounge enough dough for 48 hours. The hospital said to call the sub doc and I did, but his bitch receptionist wouldnt let me talk to him, only relay messages back and forth. Apparently I crossed some line of protocol (or doctor ego) because the receptionist said I'd need to stay in the hospital for 4 days (96 hours!) not the 2 it would take to get on the subs. I dont see why I need the extra 2 days I cant afford, but the doctor said it's because HE'S the doctor and I would need to be hospitalized for the induction because I would never be able to make it on my own, even though this was the plan all along (that I would do it at home). The receptionist made it seem like he was really pissed off, but that might have been just her who was mad. Now I dont know what to do. My fear is that I get on the subutex and when I call the doc to let him know the dose I'm ok with (that removes the heroin withdrawals), he will fire me as his patient, leaving me stuck with no refills. They did sound really put out, but I'm not sure why. They are so unprofessional I can imagine them doing this. So should I give up on the subs idea? Go on em then look for another sub doc? My friend is coming over tonight to help me and he has a shitload of methadone, enough for both of us. Should I just detox using this and be done, and say hello to PAWS? What a mess. I hate being in those doctor's power. I'd rather deal with drug dealers any day. Stay tuned... and thanks Erik.
 
Indeed, Methadone has the power to 'break our bones' when we try to get off. I know what you are going through and you´ll have to be patient.
I have been through a very similar situation and had to decrease my doses for months before I the jump.
I had tried it but have never succeeded.

The chronic use of methadone will most likely lead to a number of side effects and to deal with those, more medication is prescribed so some go through this 'vicious cicle' for ages.
At some point people realize this is addiction should come to an end.

I understand those who believe life can be okay and normal under MMT. Most of us manage to stay off drugs, change habits, friends, etc. It is a good plan. I just think this is not meant to be taken for ever.

By the way, Heroin was created to cure the addiction to morphine and it really worked for sometime before they realized it was a greater danger.
Obviously methadone is not at all like that but it reminds me the history of having to take something stronger to get out of an addiction that is spoiling your life. I feel methadone is slowly being replaced by other drugs less harmful.

Anyway, you don´t want to stay hospitalized and that is indeed very costly. In some cases there is no other way out. You may need to stay within a medical facility for a week or become an out patient until you fully recover.

You will find you own timing and I´m hoping for your best!
Don´t give up.
 
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Been on any opiate I can find for about a year and it seems as though the time has come to quit and I'm incredibly scared I just joined this site and thought it might help to find other people like me thank you (:
 
I noticed this is your first post. Welcome to BL!:)
Opiates are obviously harmful to those who abuse. I believe it hurts us more when we are young.
If you have been using for one year, you can quit now and avoid years of suffering. I hope you can make it!
As you can see you´ll find a lot of help in here.
Best of luck!
Erik
 
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Need help, did some H and 6 days later I got popped with a test. Came back positive. However I'm NOT a daily user, so i know there was enough time to be clean. Should I fight it?
 
Misty205 said:
Need help, did some H and 6 days later I got popped with a test. Came back positive. However I'm NOT a daily user, so i know there was enough time to be clean. Should I fight it?
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You were supposed to read the user agreement before posting, drug test questions are prohibited.
 
Hi guys, I'd had an opiate addiction for 5 years. I used different things, from codeine to heroin and anything between.
During the last year I used kratom just a few times, even if I was still into opiates mentally.
In the last months I didn't use anything and didn't feel the need to. It was great, my life was changing.
Less than a month ago my father passed away...it was totally unexpected, he was healthy and he was 57.
I was shocked, then extremely sad, then angry and felt shocked again. It's a rollercoaster of emotions, and I'm very emotional in general.
Two weeks after this I began thinking about heroin again. It was a bad craving, difficult to manage, but it distracted me from the suffering.
I understood that this time I wouldn't be able to resist, so I ordered a variety of enhanced kratom, to limit any damages and hoping that I could change my mind meanwhile.
It arrived sooner than I thought and I drank a lot of it. I was almost unaware of myself and what was around me. I guess I underestimated it,
Now I feel good, anyway, a part from some bitterness cause I feel guilty and stupid.
I'm not happy of course, but I don't want to touch drugs never ever again...it's a stupid thing, when it's over you just feel like crap. Or maybe one just shoudn't tke drugs in difficult moments.

I'm going to stay clean, anyway, I feel nauseated by all this. And I also think it's not fair for the memory of my father...I can't explain this, it's just something I feel.

I know that probably it won't be easy as I think now, but I have to try. I wish I had a strong strategy to overcome the next bad moments of craving.
 
I'm on day 4 of a 21-day detox off of heroin using methadone. I have two questions. First, how do people deal with the cravings? They are strong and driving me nuts. Second, is there any way to avoid getting ppost acute withdrawal syndrome? Like, for instance, if I stay on methadone longer will I not get it? Scared these two things will cause me to relapse.
 
I have had a heroine addiction for about a year, Kratom helped me get off of it. Kratom tea actually
 
I usually ketp me in activity even if I didn't feel good, to get distracted and to feel I have a life without my addiction.
I thought that the craving is just a symptom of something I'm getting rid of.
I focused on my boyfriend and family and I tried to figure how it would be for them if I was to relapse....how disappointed they would have been.
I didn't accept any excuse that my brain would produce, considering it for what it was: something trying to get me where I didn't want to go.

But mostly I faced my inner problems, helped by a psichologist, I realised some things about myself and others, I changed what was to be changed.
I was taking drugs because I didn't feel good when I was sober. I suffered a lot and I was going to worsen it all if I kept following that path.
Then I began to feel more and more happy, content with myself and serene. It felt great!
It can be a hard work but it's absolutey worth it.

Now I relapsed because I found myself facing something too big for me, I wasn't still ready for that.
But I really felt stupid and selfish this time...it's not just me that is suffering, do I want to add more suffering to the people I love?
I stopped after an evening and I didn't use H anyway. It's not a big difference, but at least you know what you're taking and so you can reduce the risk.

I also tried with kratom many times, but once you discover that at a certain amount you can reach the same effects of taking little dope - and you do discover it sooner or later if you're an addict - you're stuck in another addiction.

I don't have an answer for the other question, but I guess that using methadone longer is not a solution for this though it can be to grow stronger and give you some time to put your feelings and things together.

I relapsed many times because of PAWS, because I thought "what the hell, I've been clean for months and things aren't changing a bit. What should I do? I can't pass my whole life like this, can I? so I have no choice left but using" I had no idea they exist, I thought they would last forever :\
What a mistake! you know why you will be feeling them, which I didn't, so you can handle it. It will be some difficult months, but you can put a cross every day, aware that it's going to finish soon. And after all that, is freedom :D

Why did you stop your use, in the first place?
 
To be honest it was the money. I couldn't afford the hundred dollars a day nor could I stand the guilt of stealing to get it any longer.
 
so i was just perscribed methocarbamol and zoloft, im wondering what possible side effects may occur from smoking methamphetamines while taking these medications?
 
I'm on day 4 of cold turkey quitting heroin, oxys and opanas. I have been an IV user on and off for 6 years. I am doing my best but feeling weak and craving badly. But I want this, so badly, to be over. I just want to get sleep, I knocked myself out with benadryl and dxm syrup the first 24 hrs, now it's insomnia city...ughhh I just wish I never started. Seriously thinking suboxone this timw around. Good luck to all getting clean!
 
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