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-The- Heroin & Opioid Mega Discussion Thread (Volumes 1+2 Merged)

If it won't lead to you losing vital support, I'm a huge advocate of coming completely clean w/ your family, and even close friends. Does your boyfriend express similar concerns about quitting? Sadly, I don't think you'll have a good chance unless you two decide to do it together. If not, you have to jettison him for your own sake IMO. I've left several life-long friends behind, people I've known since time forgot, and walking away from them had to come along w/ walking away from heroin. I know it'll be harder if you need to do this w/ a romantic partner, but you need to be your first priority.

From what I read in your post, you should try your hardest to take 5 days off and ride out the WD's w/o subs or methadone. That said, if you just cannot last (no shame innit, I couldn't this time around), talk to a doctor about suboxone. DO NOT GET ON METHADONE. Sorry to yell, but that is not the maintenance you would need, and w/ suboxone and methadone you risk a lifetime of addiction to those respectively.

You should take some down time from school/work before this destroys your life - and it will. I'm only getting clean after losing a job and dropping out of grad school and pausing my thesis work, all due to heroin. It took me until 26 to find out. You'll have more power and propulsion if you nix this now. Update here and you'll always get support, many of us, such as yours truly, are going through WD right now, or have before conquered it. You can and should do whatever you need to survive.

And UPDATE: Day 4 begins. About to go for a run I am going to complete if it bring collapse. For once, I can pass out for a productive reason. I kid, I'll do fine. But yeah, gonna clean, exercise (WD's always turn me into a boney ghoul), listen to more Death Grips, and try to see my former professor and talk about my tentative future as a candidate for the Thesis program and MA. Then maybe I'll dance.

Also, apparently I gots WD game - got a date Sunday, even though I copped to not having any money and my mom was w/ me. Does that make me cool?
 
MoE I gotta say though you are the only person on Bluelight that makes me use the dictionary like 3+ times per post! But that's okay you force me to learn <3.

I give you so much credit for at least trying to attend the meetings. I really really hope there is nobody with ill intent at those meetings. I know I've heard that people do sell at them but the few times I went I didn't encounter any of that. Perhaps more regular users get the brute of it.

Try not to let paranoia get the best of you to the point where you're ignoring the message and letting the thought of scoring the drugs take over.

<3 You are doing soo well. I know by reading many of your posts how difficult it is for you especially and I am so proud of how strong you are being.
 
Relapsed.

91 days clean; 3 days binging on heroin.

Why did I do it? Something about how good that high is just makes all of the other stuff seem worth it. Those few hours of feeling "okay" with everything. For anyone who has gone a lifetime of never feeling comfortable, and then having discovered what heroin does to you during the honeymoon period, that's the fixation that never goes away. Three months went by without heroin, three months went by without feeling "okay" with anything. Sure, my life got better in many ways, and definitely more manageable. I have a lot more going for me now. But even if I can laugh easier now, run 5k without any trouble, get up easier in the morning...I'm still absolutely tortured by some type of emptiness, something that none of the suggested recovery strategies (and trust me, I've been doing everything almost to a T) at all seemed to fill. The part of me that wanted heroin in the first place was still just as much there still begging to be medicated. None of the efforts made to fix "the problems behind the addiction" could get that deep. All of the improvements to my life had been done at the surface-level, I was still running from the same things. I tried as hard as I could to figure out how to fix those things, I really did. It just seems like only heroin knows how to get that deep into me to help.

Yes, it felt amazing to go a few hours with my inner-voice ducktaped, a few more being able to talk freely and not second-guess everything. The waves of euphoria were great too. I guess we remember all of the bad stuff too, though, and magnify this like crazy as soon as the high wears away. I knew that it would be difficult, but not this difficult after one weekend.

How do I feel now? Too worried to be that apathetic, too apathetic to be that worried. My sex drive is gone again; I would turn down hypothetical sex with my crush right now because it simply wouldn't interest me. I know I did not use long enough to go into withdrawal, but I keep feeling 'phantom withdrawal symptoms.' It's been cold the past few days, and that cold air taken together with how my body physically feels after going through a bunch of heroin in a short timeframe reminds me of last year, and there's a lot of cognitive association with that mix and some other really bad stuff that has gone through my head. Bad memories have resurfaced, I feel weak again, a lot of the old stuff. I have that feeling in the back of my mind, that of being pissed-off by how "normal people" seem to function so easily. The opiate dreams are back too. Not the ones where you dream about scoring, no. The ones where I dream about being stranded at night on some outpost in the tundra, huddling near a fire while the logs slowly burn away. And that feeling of hopelessness and defeat take away any beauty that could come from the dream at all.

The skin on my face feels all flaky and dry again. I am intimidated to take my next shit. And then the apathy. I cannot emphasise enough that I did not expect the apathy would be this bad after a 3 day binge. I used to not mind the apathy as much, or at least not notice it, but it's absolutely horrible right now. I'd almost take some minor physical symptoms over this apathy. Sure, I can go through the motions and whatnot, but I just want the fascination and dedication back.

What can I try and take away from this: I know that it's a waiting game until the feelings and emotions, the good ones especially, come back. Something within me misses it already - I miss being entertained by simple things (my hollow eyes stared blankly at everything today at work, like I would have done back in my addiction, and I hate this). I miss being attracted to women (there were lots of beautiful women at work today...absolutely nothing. Total apathy).

It is going to be very hard not justifying this a few months down the line again, because as long as I cannot fill that void that craves the feeling of "okay" or contentment in my sober/clean life, I'm always going to want to do heroin. It's easy to look at this and rationally think that it's not a good idea to ever do it again, as all of this bad stuff comes with it, but that's probably a lot easier to say if you don't personally understand how heroin perfectly fills that void we feel like we've always had in our hearts.

I think that the more that a person uses opiates, the more a person really comes to see their good/evil spirits. They give you the best feelings you've ever known, and at the same time the worst ones as well. It's not just the collateral damage of heroin use that's the "evil," though. I'm honestly starting to feel something about the plant/chemical itself, something that gets into my bones, permeates my dreams, eats away at the life in me, that's very dark and very uncomfortable. I guess I got a pass in life by not believing in Hell or demons or anything, but this dark opiate energy ABSOLUTELY SCARES ME and it's EXTREMELY REAL to me. And the more you do them, even on little binges, the more you'll also be reminded of the bad as you feel the good. And no, there might not be goods as absolutely perfect in the life of recovery as there are in a bag of heroin, but the pains of normal life are also not nearly as traumatic as what the opiates will put us through.

I'm about 36 hours in, and I hope to make it another 90 days.
 
I'm sorry Red. I completely understand - anyone who's even touched the honeymoon phase should.

I relapsed Friday after making it eight days, and I've been clean since. For me, a three day binge is enough to bring some physical WD back, but I'm pretty sensitive I think.

I myself feel lost to apathy right now as well. I've managed some sleep, but it all is belied by night sweats on par w/ jumping in a pool. I'm also plagued by these ferocious, terrifying nightmares upon which I don't really want to elaborate. Drugs are a part of it.

It's rainy here, and nothing makes me happier than scoring in the rain. I think I'll claw my way back via a walk and conversation in lieu of h. Fuck h. Cliche, I know, but it is worse than my worst exgirlfriend - it will not let me walk away. Why can't I just bombard myself into less than desire.
 
It is going to be very hard not justifying this a few months down the line again, because as long as I cannot fill that void that craves the feeling of "okay" or contentment in my sober/clean life, I'm always going to want to do heroin. It's easy to look at this and rationally think that it's not a good idea to ever do it again, as all of this bad stuff comes with it, but that's probably a lot easier to say if you don't personally understand how heroin perfectly fills that void we feel like we've always had in our hearts.
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That really is the crux of it. With clean time is gets easier every day but deep down inside there is always that itch hiding out waiting to be scratched. I guess the best we can do is keep staying clean and keep working recovery in the hopes that one day we will be able to treat the main issues behind our addiction rather than just the service stuff. I had a relapse myself about 90 day ago which you may remember, it really is part of the process. We fall down and we get back up. I'm glad you are back on the right track again; the best thing you can do is not beat yourself up about it and start back where you left off. Good luck man.
 
I have a very hard time with the "relapse is part of recovery" line. Don't get me wrong, I understand that there's a correlation between people in recovery and those who relapse. I just find that it can be a bit enabling, either to use for the sake of it being part of recovery, or to use in attempt to gain further insight into why you want to remain clean. I wish it were this simple. I consider myself a stronger-minded person, and I have way too much to lose if I provide a positive urine anytime soon, but I can see just how easily it would be to fall back to the hells of addiction within a week or two. Where I went wrong here is that I didn't anticipate how bad the post-relapse apathy/anhedonia would be. I took for granted that because I have all of this structure now that I enjoy, from work to weightlifting to being outdoors, that the transition back to normal life wouldn't be that difficult. I left work early today and just want to sleep until I get my passion for life back; I cannot even get myself to go through the motions.

MOE - The nightmares are horrible, I definitely have them too. They haunt me all day. There should be more options out there in the recovery/treatment community alone for drug-related dream disturbances. I think the dreams get to me the most because they remind me that I'm not really in control, that the poppy will always have me trumped. No matter how well I plan the relapses and whatnot.

I don't believe that we have some disease that is drug addiction. I do think that some of us seem to have some emotional need for something that we can never seem to find in the world or within bonds with other people, though, and when those people experience certain drugs, there's a high-risk of repeated use. This need isn't unique to drug-addicts, though; many, many people in society have it and they just haven't decided to use drugs to alleviate the pain. It's easy for us addicts to find people similar to us given the common denominator, but it's not that easy to find other people from different walks of life with the same emptiness. And we cannot assume that those people won't be turned off by our choices to substitute drugs. But I think it's very important to at least try to find people who don't always turn to drugs to fight this, so that we can be surrounded by different types of people in our attempt to stay clean (call me pessimistic, but addicts will trigger each other more often). I just wish that this was easier.
 
Really truthful and well-written post about your past relapse Red. I'm sure many people can relate. I know I could. Even with some of the smaller things: the dryer skin on my face, the hollow eyes, the immediate drop in interest in regular life and in sex.

I always noticed that the next 3-4 days after getting high always leave me feeling off. Even if I've been sober for a long time, if I get high just once I still feel diminished in the next few days. I don't have the same interest in doing things as I did before getting high. Of course it goes away after those few days, but for the one high it seems to take quite a toll on my mind and spirit.

Be careful in the coming days and weeks. All relapses don't start out with you immediately going back into using right away. I was doing well a year ago, but a few times of getting high in June where I kept talking myself into one more time eventually lead me back to active addiction again. Haven't gotten back to that good clean point since. It's amazing how easily it is to get sucked back in and amazing how long it can take to get back out.


Out of curiousity how did you end up relapsing? Call an old dealer? Run into an old friend?
 
^ I knew that somewhere in the back of my mind, I had a "controlled relapse" waiting for me. I didn't know when it was going to happen, or even how, but I kept holding onto that thought because the "never again" idea scares me. Now I have a lot of factors going on in my life that realistically prevent me from relapsing: drug tests at work, probation drug tests, having extra money to afford it, getting days off from work, not wanting to go "deep into the heroin trade" to obtain it, etc. Typically on any day that I flirt with the idea of relapsing, at least one of these variables is so that it's really not a good idea. But last week, I got that itch and everything aligned so that the risk was absolutely minimal and I justified it by not wanting to pass over such a great opportunity.
 
Carl Landrover said:
I always noticed that the next 3-4 days after getting high always leave me feeling off. Even if I've been sober for a long time, if I get high just once I still feel diminished in the next few days. I don't have the same interest in doing things as I did before getting high. Of course it goes away after those few days, but for the one high it seems to take quite a toll on my mind and spirit.
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This is exactly where I am. There is a confluence of physical and spiritual diminution in that time when it is most important to be at your top notch. It is truly suffering to lie around sapped knowing full well it is out there waiting - "This could be a good day, a productive, sociable day, if I got something." The only counterbalance I can find is the lack of sustainability and insufferable nature of addiction as a lifestyle to keep me from scamming and copping. That isn't enough to energize me. Of course: one step at a time, and they do add up, but as addicts, generally we take things very much in the moment.

It seems right now the dreams will be with me, and I'll need to find a way to wake up and replace the longing, torture, meekness, and emptiness with something good. If I had a girlfriend, she would detest sleeping in my bed b/c of the immense night sweats.

I agree there is an emptiness in most of us, and we've become more attuned to it by finding the easiest remedy - paradoxically, also the most taxing. I've also found it challenging to convey this to others who often ask, "Why do you use heroin? You have this or that going for you." And this is the best I can usually attempt to offer.

And I planned a "controlled relapse" for my Coachella trip, but narrowly avoided it only by giving my pass away. It didn't save me ultimately, b/c I had rationalized it by a week later. I wish I could turn off that thinking, along with many other variations.
 
motherofearth said:
The only counterbalance I can find is the lack of sustainability and insufferable nature of addiction as a lifestyle to keep me from scamming and copping. That isn't enough to energize me.
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Man, back at my worst, if you promised me a few grams in exchange for the cure for cancer, I'd probably have the rough draft ready by noon. Consider it a good thing that you're not motivated to scam. When the money runs out and you're still trying to bankroll a three figure a day habit, that's when the collateral damage can bury you, even well into your recovery.

With the controlled relapse, I also wanted this for another reason. My times getting clean from heroin, none of them felt like I managed them on my own terms. Heroin knocked me out both times, I had to surrender and the last highs were undermined by awful circumstances. Not only did heroin defeat me, but I took it very personal. And in some sick way, as I grew stronger in recovery, I had this thought boiling that I wanted to dance with the devil one last time, but end it on my own terms. That in time, having done that would make me stronger. Like your hero in the movies who goes back to finally defeat his rival. I felt like if I could use for a few days and then make a clean getaway, I would rid myself of this feeling that I want to go back to unfinished business with heroin. With respect to this and this only, I actually kind of achieved it. So far.

I think the other thing that is really getting to me is that I went to work Saturday on heroin, took heroin to work with me in fact, and it was really awkward. I didn't get caught or anything, but I'm sure it was obvious that something was "a little off" with RL. The heroin took away my inhibitions and I took part in some conversations with coworkers I regret, made some promises to "help people" that I'll admittedly never go through with. Tried to hit on the girl who sold me lunch, and now it's going to be awkward going back there to eat. And now every time I go to the toilet at work I'm going to crave shoving a needleless syringe up my ass. Heroin gave me that false sense of security that it would be okay for me to bring it to work, and now I'm going to have to try and deal with that in the aftermath.
 
The shit thing is, I am motivated. It just takes duck-taping that voice of reason. You know, that bittersweet moment where you say fuck it. I'm not there now, but it's always an option. For instance, my mom just offered me the use of her car and some gas money to look for jobs, and I don't need to tell you the first thought in my head. And that isn't even the scam. But I relate to what you mean. I'd run the junkie marathon if I knew there was a good score and run at the end, well, at least in the darker days.
 
Kudos for being back on the sobriety train again. I think you shouldn't see yourself so badly. Yes, most of the changes you made may be superficial. But you were 90 days clean. How long have you been wrestling with addiction (not only heroin, but in general)? If drugs were your main coping strategy for years that won't completely change in 3 months. I'm four months clean from heroin now and really got back into life, although bad things happened I feel I'm in a good place now. But the thought of opiates still water my mouth so much. Today at the uni we talked about the treatment of opiate intoxication and how it is important to give the naloxone very slow to prevent precip wds, which reminded my of my ct withdrawals and even though I only rmembered the wds I was instantly craving badly. Strange, huh? From time to time I catch myself planning out my hypothetical next big one-weekend relapse. It really scares the fuck out of me because this was how my relapse in december began which was the last straw for my long term relationship. I simply can't get rid of the dreams about that last perfect binge were I accomplish everything I can get from h, and am satisfied and done afterwards ;). I think that will never cease completely and if the drug me gets in control everything I changed in the meantime will be washed away soon.

Sounds a bit negative but at the moment I'm really positive about my future. Maybe that will happen some day and maybe it won't...

However, best wishes for your recovery
 
I would say that it progressed from enhancement to self-medication about 6 years ago. About two years with heroin. I was able to be a functioning addict until I met heroin. Heroin is unquestionably the next level of addiction. I have never encountered anything in life, drugs or otherwise, that completely takes over all facets of a life in the way that heroin does. Your example of getting cravings when hearing talk of Naloxone, that is absolutely sick, but it's not that different from me craving when I see dilapidated buildings or taste my own snot when my allergies act up. Heroin makes me understand completely why a woman would go back home to an abusive husband or a kid touches a hot stove plate knowing what will happen. Heroin withdrawal makes me understand why someone would take an old lady's purse or have sex for drug money. Heroin is a force to be reckoned with and unfortunately I have to be one of the lost souls that now has that additional source of torment. Nobody deserves this.

Something I've definitely noticed is that when you're using daily and physically addicted, the withdrawal takes over and makes a lot of the other negative aspects of heroin seem trivial. But when you try and use now and then after the physical addiction is over, you start to notice a lot of those other bad elements. You see just how badly this shit is on the body. I cannot stress enough that the apathy and the ahedonia shows how strong of a force it is on your entire outlook. The bad dreams are WAY WORSE when you're just on a binge. The guilt is there, too, because you're not completely numb yet. I guess the moral here is that I should try and see this relapse as a lesson in the other ways, aside from addiction and collateral damage, that heroin is bad. I just wish that I could have learned those lessons without feeling as mentally low as I do right now.
 
(I'm moving this, as I started it as a thread, but feel it fits in here and will save space):

I'm not sure if I should be ashamed of this, as it possibly transgresses on the invisible line of human decency, but sometimes when I'm really high I derive pleasure from the idea of weak beings/organisms (yes, including people) being hurt. This phenomenon is strictly confined to my opiate use. It's never manifested in any behavior or action, and I'm sure I have enough self-control to never entertain these ideas as realities. Yet, they are still frightening, and even interesting in a macabre way. Has anyone else noticed opiates in particular evoking sadistic feelings?

(disclaimer: I am not considering inflicting any degree of harm on anyone/myself)
 
I'm guessing that it's little more than an expression of the power struggle you have with opiates. You're still in a bit of denial about just how weak they make you, and you want to see other things suffer so that you don't feel as low in your comparative existence. Probably not that different from "misery loves company," only a bit more like "powerlessness loves company." Opiate abuse can create a very fatalistic view of the world, making everything seem like it's slowly decaying away as if that were the ultimate purpose, and this can minimise the mental stress of such "assisted decay" or whatever. Killing something, getting heroin for your friend even if it furthers his addiction, sharing a needle...it all seems acceptable at the time.

It's probably a good thing that you can see this in yourself before it would ever lead you to do something rash. If anything, I would try and correlate in your head "doing opiates" and "thinking/feeling these things you really don't like." As long as you don't begin to want to take drugs in order to draw up these feelings, but instead want to avoid drugs so that the feelings will remain at bay, you'll be okay.

I don't ever really get anything like this. The closest I could relate would probably be that sometimes when trying not to relapse, I'll appeal to the moral high-ground of "only weak people use drugs." I don't honestly believe this, but if I can convince myself that not using on a given day means that I am stronger than other people, I see it as a victory nonetheless. Something like "real men don't cry" or whatever.
 
motherofearth said:
(I'm moving this, as I started it as a thread, but feel it fits in here and will save space):

I'm not sure if I should be ashamed of this, as it possibly transgresses on the invisible line of human decency, but sometimes when I'm really high I derive pleasure from the idea of weak beings/organisms (yes, including people) being hurt. This phenomenon is strictly confined to my opiate use. It's never manifested in any behavior or action, and I'm sure I have enough self-control to never entertain these ideas as realities. Yet, they are still frightening, and even interesting in a macabre way. Has anyone else noticed opiates in particular evoking sadistic feelings?

(disclaimer: I am not considering inflicting any degree of harm on anyone/myself)
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Absolutely MOE. The spiral downward with opiate addiction is filled with invisible lines to not cross, morals that will never be compromised, integrity that was once valued as a guiding force.

The bellyflop into despair, shame and self pity begin to snowball until the only thing you can hold yourself up to is the reflection of another addict. My counselor in rehab would describe the act of taking others down with you in your addiction as a "terrorist act". Nothing could be more true. This moment is when opiate addiction transforms from an 'issue' in ones life to the actual 'life' itself. It is the only thing that defines you and the only uplifting thought is contrasting ones self against a fellow addict so you can tell yourself 'I am not as bad off as he is'.

NA cliches tend to bore me out... but the longer I was clean last year before another back surgery, the more I realized the powerful depth and scope they could provide. When dealing with this feeling of inward collapse and misery the NA phrase "incomprehensible demoralization' rings as true as any truth we will experience in the depth of opiate addiction.

Opiate addiction and addiction in general is not a struggle of weak vs strong or smart vs stupid. Actually, it makes the cliche "surrender to win" as apt an insight into our rebirth in recovery as any. There is a way to turn misery and heartache into something powerfully inspiring. Just don't give up or give in. It is anguish...I know, for every moment in opiate enslavement is a moment lost of our inherent right to freedom of soul. Admitting the pain is a significant step; actual 'acceptance' is the force by which the rest of your life can be monumentally inspired and unlimited by a chemical chain.
 
Fuck, is it really that easy? Just was turned down by a girl I feel attracted to last night and now I'm contemplating using again? That's fucking embarrassing. I hate it.
 
Ya, the whole "don't even try to date for at least a year" thing that people like to say in recovery circles. It's not a fun one to even entertain the idea of it being good advice, but I think deep down we all kind of see why it is said.

VW, I'll run the rationalisation by you that I use on my self for a similar situation.

When I got clean, I got my feelings and my sex drive back. I felt 13 again, and it was overwhelming. I also found that my social anxiety had gone through the roof once I quit drugs, though, and I had to relearn how to talk to women. As well, a lot of the circumstances in my life were so that dating and hanging out with women would be very impractical. Nonetheless, I felt 13 all over again and couldn't help it. I started working a new job and soon developed feelings for one of my coworkers. They felt healthy too, for it was the first time that I was interested in someone who had a good life going for her, didn't use drugs, had respect for herself and I felt like could be a positive influence on me. I just couldn't really do anything about it, not only because she was a coworker, but because I was plagued with anxiety and because I had made up in my own head that she wouldn't be interested in a 27 year old recovering heroin addict with not much to show for himself. The feelings have continued strong, heck this girl's perfect for me in so many ways (in that I mean that we share a lot of healthy qualities and really no bad ones). I just cannot do anything about it really.

Similar, but less advanced, situations happen elsewhere and with other people all the time.

Sometimes I get out of work with my hormones going so crazy that I feel like some heroin could help me calm down. I want to prescribe myself heroin to reduce the level of nonreciprocal sexual energy with which I am now struggling.

When I got high a few weeks ago, it actually did work in that way. When I went to work on heroin, she was just like any other person. But if you can recall in this thread, I was complaining about feeling apathy and how much I wished for my old (new) feelings back. I really missed having that crush on her and everything that came with it.

I kind of understood romantic/sexual feelings to be healthy enough that they're not really the worst problem in the world. Heroin brings about real problems. Not being able to have the person you want, though definitely not easy, definitely does comes with a sense of "life will go on."

I really hope that you don't use. It's not worth it for something like this. You won't actually solve anything, but I can guarantee you that once you feel that warmth again, you'll be begging for your crush on the girl to somehow get in the way of your feelings for heroin.
 
I'm glad I didn't use. I went to my self help group tonight and found out that a friend of mine relapsed on alcohol on monday. He broke up with his gf around the time I did, and always was like "everythings alright, I like being single again" while he in fact felt lonely and was too proud to admit it. And in fact I do the same... I don't get along with being single, although I really enjoy being unbound, if you understand what I mean. That's so fucked up.

For me, it is not so much a social anxiety thing in general. I was much more socially anxious while I was using. And I have absolutely no problem with getting to know someone, flirting with girls, talking in front of hundreds of people. Only when I really feel attracted to someone, either in a romantic way or just sexually, I begin to overthink and act like an idiot.
Sex drive kills me since I've become clean, it's a mess. Right now I begin to understand that this was one of the causes that led me into addiction. Although I was happy with my then gf, our libido didn't match well to say the least and I really suffered from that a lot. With drugs I didn't care, and every time in withdrawal I got super horny again. It's really embarrassing for me right now, every time I go out I just watch out for women. wtf.
One year without dating? I don't want a serious relationship for sure, but that would be tough...
 
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