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Election 2020 The Final Countdown v. Nov. 3rd

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No doubt Biden did some interrupting too.

Google "biden ryan debate 2012 interruptions" and you will find:

Biden goes after Ryan in VP debate - POLITICO

The Biden-Ryan debate, and the art of not losing - The ...

Between Interruptions, a Debate Broke Out Between Biden ...

Joe Biden's alpha-male display leaves Paul Ryan overwhelmed

Biden comes out swinging at debate, clashes with Ryan ...

Joe Biden throws smirks and sharp elbows debating Paul Ryan

and that's just the first hits. Watch the vid if you feel it may drive the point home. Here's the full transcript, where you can see Biden launch into his interruption and distraction tactics in the first few minutes, the SECOND question asked of Ryan, as a matter of fact. This is a Biden means of 'winning' a debate. Unfortunately for Biden, and the viewing audience, Trump is even stronger at using this distasteful tactic.

So, in this debate, taken as a whole, I would not be surprised to see the left view Trump as 'worse'. But in both cases, Biden initiates, and Biden also uses it extensively. It worked for Biden in 2012, not so much in 2020 where his opponent is better/worse at it than he is. So, to use your own words but asked of Trump's reaction...

But what exactly is he supposed to do?
 
@TheLoveBandit Trump claims not to know former employees all the time. He claims not to know he’s retweeting white supremacists. He plays both sides of the ignorant super-genius and it’s tiring.

He was also given a blanket chance to condemn white supremacy, but he didn’t. He asked for a name, which is how this whole situation evolved (and also why you should watch the debate!!). I guess he wouldn’t want to condemn those fine white supremacists in Charlottesville, as opposed to those bad apples.
 
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I wonder how many of Biden's total interruptions were necessitated by Trump's overly agressive interruptions or attacks on Biden. Chris Wallace clearly said Trump was the problem, it would be hard to argue otherwise.
 
Google "biden ryan debate 2012 interruptions" and you will find:

Biden goes after Ryan in VP debate - POLITICO

The Biden-Ryan debate, and the art of not losing - The ...

Between Interruptions, a Debate Broke Out Between Biden ...

Joe Biden's alpha-male display leaves Paul Ryan overwhelmed

Biden comes out swinging at debate, clashes with Ryan ...

Joe Biden throws smirks and sharp elbows debating Paul Ryan

and that's just the first hits. Watch the vid if you feel it may drive the point home. Here's the full transcript, where you can see Biden launch into his interruption and distraction tactics in the first few minutes, the SECOND question asked of Ryan, as a matter of fact. This is a Biden means of 'winning' a debate. Unfortunately for Biden, and the viewing audience, Trump is even stronger at using this distasteful tactic.

So, in this debate, taken as a whole, I would not be surprised to see the left view Trump as 'worse'. But in both cases, Biden initiates, and Biden also uses it extensively. It worked for Biden in 2012, not so much in 2020 where his opponent is better/worse at it than he is. So, to use your own words but asked of Trump's reaction...

I'll admit I don't watch the vp debates nearly as often as the presidential ones (can you really blame me?). I think the last one I watched was Palin v Biden 08, don't ask me to remember how much interrupting there was.

I will say skimming over the Biden v Ryan one, I'm not seeing either of them talking over the moderator or the moderator begging them to be quiet.

Admitidly I'm not gonna watch the entire hour and a half vp debate from 8 years ago (can you blame me?).

I will say watching it is making me miss when the world was sane. Looking back at all the elections, I'd take any of these assholes.

Bring back McCain, I'll take a McCain Palin Presidency happily now. :(
 
TLB, if you haven't watched the debate, I urge you to, I don't care what some numbers reported that you read about, seeing/hearing is believing. I was disappointed in Biden, mostly at his lack of message and allowing himself to get flustered/baited, but Trump's behavior is childish and highly problematic. This is not an imnstance to jump to his defense nor an instance of the liberal media trying to paint a false picture. I listened to the debate, and it was shocking and absurd the way the president was behaving.
 
I mean no offense, but frankly if you didn't watch the debate I don't think you should get to comment on it.

There are times when it's not realistic to have first hand knowledge of everything and to say that you can't have an opinion for that reason would be silly. But this isn't one of those times.

Everyone can watch the debate. I don't even currently live in the US and I watched the debate live.

If you don't wanna watch it that's fine, but I can't say I think highly of commentary on the debate that's entirely or almost entirely based on other people's commentary. Not when you can go watch the whole thing right now online.

I thought trumps behavior was nothing short of a national embarrassment.
 
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Admitidly I'm not gonna watch the entire hour and a half vp debate from 8 years ago (can you blame me?).

I wouldn't blame you one iota <3. But it is there, albeit somewhat irrelevant now other than for comparisons to how people act today.

I will say watching it is making me miss when the world was sane. Looking back at all the elections, I'd take any of these assholes.

LOL. The truly scary thing to me is to imagine what comes next? It's like gravity only works one direction, I can't see any amount of effort being able to correct this political trajectory.

I mean no offense, but frankly if you didn't watch the debate I don't think you should get to comment on it.

Meh, I would agree 98% of the time.
 
I can't say I like Biden very much, but I did find this perspective on the way the media has been framing the debate between him and Trump interesting:


A Message to the US Media: Biden and Trump Are Not ‘The Same’

The false equivalence awarded to Donald Trump and Joe Biden is grossly misleading and a danger to democracy, argues CJ Werleman

The US mainstream news media has been given four years to reconcile how and where it went wrong in covering the then Republican candidate Donald Trump during the 2016 Presidential Election.

And yet, everything about the first of the three 2020 US Presidential Debates suggests that the country’s major broadcasters and publishers have not learnt a single thing, to the detriment of the country’s global reputation – and democracy itself.

In a functioning democracy, the news media performs the role of a government watchdog, holding those in power accountable for their actions. In the US, however, it operates more like the fictional Hunger Games, whereby a fascination with the spectacle of the race supersedes the notion of journalists being guardians of the public interest.

In the age of cable television news, entertainment has replaced information and investigative reporting, while journalists themselves have been replaced by entertainers. This is why a 2012 study found that consumers of the right-wing Fox News channel are less informed about current affairs than those who watch no news at all...


Read the rest below:

 
In a functioning democracy, the news media performs the role of a government watchdog, holding those in power accountable for their actions. In the US, however, it operates more like the fictional Hunger Games, whereby a fascination with the spectacle of the race supersedes the notion of journalists being guardians of the public interest.

Sounds like the start of a media bias thread...if there was such a thing.

In the age of cable television news, entertainment has replaced information and investigative reporting, while journalists themselves have been replaced by entertainers. This is why a 2012 study found that consumers of the right-wing Fox News channel are less informed about current affairs than those who watch no news at all...

Article didn't link the study, and while I find the evaluation of Fox consumers less informed than those who watch no news both humorous and unsurprising, I am curious how consumers of left wing media (CNN, MSNBC) would rank on the same survey. EDIT: found an article talking about the survey, MSNBC and CNN did bad, but still notably better than FOX. They also broke down a bit of radio v television, and where the respondent's political views lie in relation to the sources they listened to.

More from the article, which shows a heavy left lean (anything Trump is vile, anything Clinton is cleared). Interesting in reading it that while it blames the media for giving Trump's candidacy for too much coverage, thereby giving it legitimacy:

There are many reasons why Trump won the presidency despite his lifelong record of dishonesty, corruption and failure. But a principal reason was that the media, and the way it obsessed over and then profited from his spectacle and showmanship, granted him round-the-clock coverage. This non-stop reality TV show, with Trump at its centre, helped legitimise his candidacy and normalise his lies, racism, sexism and extremist politics.

But, I read further....

Trump is helping these networks to rake in billions of dollars of revenue and profits, but his lies and deceit have not only undermined the public’s faith in democracy and media, but has also led to 205,000 American deaths from COVID-19. A Cornell University study found a whopping 38% of all pandemic misinformation traces back to Trump, identifying him as the largest driver of an “infodemic”.

Again, the bias is showing. I should have stopped there, but I didn't. I regret it.

Conservatives view MSM as covering for the left, and lambasting Trump and the right. Progressives view the MSM as ... ? I won't speak for the left, but would like to read the replies. I honestly would like to know.

The article views the MSM as being at fault for giving Trump too much air time, and not enough for Hillary, and now Biden. The heart of the article is that MSM should be exposing how bad a person Trump is, and how great Biden is. THAT is the MSM's job according to this article, along with a return to being unbiased journalists rather than dollar chasing buzz fiends. Somehow, those two priorities aren't going to work out.
 
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Trump and the right. Progressives view the MSM as ... ? I won't speak for the left, but would like to read the replies. I honestly would like to know.

It's interesting, right?

Mainstream typically references something to have do with the "majority."

Mainstream media would be mass media companies.

I would say it's a reflection of where the ideologies are currently headed, in our country, at least from the mainstream perspective and really highlights the values we prioritize (sorry extreme conservatives). There's probably a correlation to the entertainment industry mixed in there somewhere and obviously ratings.

Fox News is important, in my opinion, as it would be considered a mass news media company but offers views through the lens of the right leaners.
 
Seems to me the article way over simplifies things.

I've seen it again and again for so many different arguments.

In 2016 x happened, x is happening in 2020, ergo the conclusion will be the same.

The flaw is in assuming such a complex system as human psychology and interaction is predictable using a single data point.

I think giving trump less media coverage today would be a terrible thing to do if you want trump to lose.

It was great for helping him win in 2016, but we don't live in 2016.

Look at the debate, that was a huge moment of coverage of trump. Where everyone was watching him. And it has tanked his polling. You gonna tell me that happened because Biden was just such a great debater? No, it happened cause of trump.

The average voter is not one of trumps sycophants. The average voter is capable of seeing trump in 2016 and thinking it's worth voting for him, and seeing him now and only coming out less likely to vote for him.

Trump is digging his own grave, bidens camp clearly believes the same, that's why they've largely just shut up in this race and let trump keep being trump.

If covid19 hadn't happened it'd probably be a very different story. Covid19 changed the game by giving trump something he really has to do, and is expected to do. Only to repeatedly fail at. I think it has changed the game more than any other one thing, and it is why trumps usual ploys are often now hurting him rather than helping him.

And that's why saying x happened in 2016, x is happening now, therefore trump will win is a faulty assertion.
 
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I'm watching the vp debate.

Man I wish we hadn't had a vp debate. Cause Pence is doing muuuuch better than Trump did.

Harris is doing well too. It's amazing how much better the debate goes when neither participant is a big toddler. Being as impartial as I can. I'd say both are doing equally well.

Hopefully we will have at least 1 more presidential debate so hopefully trump can destroy any inroads made by pence tonight.
 
Watching VP debate. Pence is excruciatingly boring. Both are doing what they need to do.

Any debate without trump was gonna feel boring compared to one with him. :D

Honestly I'd say pence is doing quite well.
Thankfully this is a vp debate so chances are most people won't see it. :D
 
What's annoying to me is that pence keeps saying Biden opposed the travel restrictions put in place against China.

And Harris isn't saying it's wrong. Implying that it's true.

But when I've looked into it, it appears to be false.

What Biden said that appears to be the basis of the claim that Biden opposed the travel restriction is that America needed a plan to combat Coronavirus, and that walls and travel bans alone wouldn't be enough.

I can't find any evidence that Biden ever opposed the travel restrictions or called it xenophobic.

Anyone know of any evidence that this is true? If it's not Harris is stupid to be silent on it.
 
It’s interesting because Harris is being given the edge on winning, and everyone is saying the debate wasn’t that important, but if either of them had screwed up it would have been really important.
Pence sounds fine until you remember he’s VP with Trump, and then he just seems rabidly opportunistic.
 
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