The EADD I'm Fucked Megathread - We don't even know what month it is...

[Raasyvibe]

You seem to be pulling presumptions from your posterior. That is not a reasonable argument it's just making shit up.

Your attitude is paternalistic in the extreme. Who are you or I or anybody else to try to force anybody to not do something that harms nobody but themselves? At least it could be that way. At the moment it hurts immeasurably across many lands because of prohibition. All that pain could be wiped out in a stroke leaving just the individual to deal with their own shit. It wouldn't even cost the NHS cos savings on drug enforcement cancel that out a gazillion times over. Yes the individual still has painful choices to make. They do anyway. The difference is in terms of how many innocents have to pay too.

Yeah maybe it does come across as paternalistic.

I think the law should be there to help people and support people, where at the moment it just seems to condemn them and ruin their lives more than the drug itself. So I meet you to an extent. I think full legalisation goes too far though, I personally would hate to see heroin legal. If it were I'd be too tempted to take it. As things stand, the difficulty in acquiring it means that my use of it can remain very minimal.

I would honestly leave the country if that stuff was legal. I'd have too much difficulty staying away from it.

 

[Shambles]

Do you truly believe that if you continue to take it you won't find it easier and easier to find? You are choosing not to find it already or you'd be using more often. You are maintaining control despite being able to acquire it. Perhaps not as easily as part of you wishes you could but easily enough you smoke it pretty frikkin regularly for somebody who struggles to get hold of it. I suspect many of your issues to do with legalisation stem from personal fears. It's pretty clear from many of the things you've said. That's perfectly understandable but as somebody who has been there and done that with everything I can promise you none of it is hard to get and prohibition did nothing to make it harder beyond making it impossible to not turn to crime to fund my addictions. Anybody who really wants drugs - that's different from fighting amongst yourself as to whether or not you want them... at least it is so far - if the only thing preventing you from becoming an addict is legality you'd best leave the country now cos it will find you if you want it to.

That's me being paternalistic to I suppose. I don't want people to have to live what I've lived or what those I've known have lived (which is mostly a helluva lot worse). I wan't people to be treated for medical issues and to be able to enjoy recreation. There is a crossover between the two of course but there is anyway. Illegality does nothing but deepen the division where there is no real division. It magnifies a problem way beyond what it needs be without the legal consequences and all that comes with prohibition (most specifically the criminality which you have never once even tried to address). If you can't see any of that it's simply because you've yet to see it whether in yourself or in society around you. It is there and it is caused by prohibition. Seek and you will see. I kinda suspect your mind would be changed if you did.

 

[Raasyvibe]

It magnifies a problem way beyond what it needs be without the legal consequences and all that comes with prohibition (most specifically the criminality which you have never once even tried to address)

*Ahem*

I think the law should be there to help people and support people, where at the moment it just seems to condemn them and ruin their lives more than the drug itself.

Decriminalisation I can see a lot of sense in

Yeah criminality sucks. At the same time there is often a greedy dealer who is happy to create problems in people for the sake of getting lot's of cash, so I see sense in some kind of law enforcement.

On the one hand drugs should be legalised because it is less chance of them being pure with nothing added to "make money." Safer in terms of the person buys the otc n less

You can always buy heroin testing kits if you're worried about the content.

 

[Shambles]

I mean the criminality which causes the most severe problems to societies - not just the relatively minor criminal records accrued by the average addict. Those (mostly) petty crimes certainly add up to major nuisance and even major problems in some areas but the really serious crime is further up the chain and that is precisely what decriminalisation not only does not address but actively encourages. That is the one and only difference between decriminalisation and legalisation. That is what you have never addressed.

 

[Eveleivibe]

*Ahem*





Yeah criminality sucks. At the same time there is often a greedy dealer who is happy to create problems in people for the sake of getting lot's of cash, so I see sense in some kind of law enforcement.



You can always buy heroin testing kits if you're worried about the content.

Really????

 

[Raasyvibe]

^ Yes. Testing kits for heroin purity and most other drugs are available to buy online. You can get help, scripts of medication to help you come off addiction, clean needles from pharmacy's etc

I mean the criminality which causes the most severe problems to societies - not just the relatively minor criminal records accrued by the average addict. Those (mostly) petty crimes certainly add up to major nuisance and even major problems in some areas but the really serious crime is further up the chain and that is precisely what decriminalisation not only does not address but actively encourages. That is the one and only difference between decriminalisation and legalisation. That is what you have never addressed.

Crimes to feed habit:

If H is legal you still have to pay for it. Due to ease of availability, it's possible more people could become addicted. Which means more petty crimes (Theft, shoplifting, beating up grannies for their purses, etc) surely?


Gangs, warfare, murders, money in criminal hands etc:

I guess it's an inevitable repercussion from an opposition of drugs. You can't fight a war without making sacrifices, can't make an omelette without breaking an egg... etc etc but at the same time, if dealers and gangs want to murder each other... it's kinda their own fault for getting involved.

---

I see the principle in what you're saying, remove the illegitimacy, then we remove all the crime that comes with it. It's a peaceful approach to the problem


But I think in practice it just wouldn't work out. Too many people would be keen to try it. It would get in the possession of too many vulnerable people. It would bring more and more of it's bad problems into society, because of the availability.

 

[rickolasnice]

What makes you think availability would go up?

There was an article a few years ago stating kids found it easier to get MDMA than alcohol because there were no regulations / restrictions in place.

 

[ScotchMist]

Im glad you've just brought up the criminality aspect as it was a point I wanted to raise.

Not the low level dealers with the occasional turf war but the cartels/mafia side of it. Not only the ludicrous money and power that they have but the casualties of how they aquire such power.

We'll take mexico as an example, put the deaths of cartel members aside as its an occupational hazard and look at the deaths caused to innocent bystanders, police, soldiers etc etc... Actually, dont ignore the gang member deaths, you could say they are casualties to as theyve no doubt been raised into the life and just become a product of their environment.

This people arent dying from drug consumption but as a consequence of its production, the numbers are astounding and shocking, worse than a war zone... Theres more to prohibition than the damage caused to lives by the end users here Raas.

Check out the wiki on mexicos war on drugs.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War

Im not saying the cartels would fall to peices if you could buy drugs legally as im sure they'd find something else naughty to do but it would certainly put a severe dent in their income which would take away alot of power they weild politically, these bastards control countries and citizens live in fear. Thats no way to carry on is it.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Crimes to feed habit:

If H is legal you still have to pay for it. Due to ease of availability, it's possible more people could become addicted. Which means more petty crimes (Theft, shoplifting, beating up grannies for their purses, etc) surely?


Gangs, warfare, murders, money in criminal hands etc:

I guess it's an inevitable repercussion from an opposition of drugs. You can't fight a war without making sacrifices, can't make an omelette without breaking an egg... etc etc but at the same time, if dealers and gangs want to murder each other... it's kinda their own fault for getting involved.

Regarding having to pay for it. In the UK, a g of what, 20% pure heroin currently costs somewhere in the region of £50. You might extrapolate from that that a g of pure would be worth £250.

A g of pure pharma diamorphine costs somewhere in the region of £3.

Sensible pricing would therefore see the price drop dramatically and no grannies would be getting mugged.

Regarding gangs.

it's kinda their own fault for getting involved.

Staggeringly askew understanding of the situation and not very christian of you either. The Mexico drug war is estimated to be responsible for 70000+ deaths so far. Many of these deaths, maybe even the majority of these deaths, are innocent bystanders getting decapitated for living in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There are swathes of central America that are currently lawless. Large parts of Mexico and Honduras are ruled by gangs openly running around in big SUVs toting assault rifles. The police have run away. Or joined the gangs. If you live in these areas, your life is in the hands of criminals. This is why a multitude of ex-leaders in central and south America are calling for an end to the war on drugs via legalization.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13624303

cites UN estimates that opiate use increased 35% worldwide from 1998 to 2008, cocaine by 27%, and cannabis by 8.5%.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/07/war-drugs-latin-american-leaders

 

[Inflorescence]

Not saying this discussion isn't hand on heart genuinely interesting but this is meant to be the fucked thread..your not meant to know what day it is let alone string a relevant and thought provoking sentence together.

I thought I would help get it back on track Shit shit day...so a beer (peroni if you are interested) some phentermine which just wound me up..some etz..which didn't touch the sides....some beer..Threw up...more beer and 160mg of Fourfa down the hatch.

 

[ColtDan]

Funky four... nice

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

So, the second I join in... 8(

Off topic IS EADD. Granted, we usually do it by discussing the size of our penis's or something.

I'll keep it to monosyllables from now on.

 

[foolsgold]

redefining megafucked

NSFW:

[video]http://i.muchosucko.com/production/asset/url/122/241/trainselfie.mp4[/video]

 

[ScotchMist]

Sorry inflo, as you were

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Yeah.

One page back and people were discussing sobriety. Nobody seemed to mind that.

Tell you what, I'm fucked off now. Does that count?

 

[Inflorescence]

Sorry inflo, as you were

This ongoing debate that I believe Raas started has it's place I ddo not deny this...but with no people seemingly off their fakin rockers ..and yeh is it Monday or Tusday..actually just shitday will do I thought on topic may just help...SHM you bollocked me for lucozade addiction here some weeks ago 8(

Where is Elw (is it Elw) the one that kept this threas aliv e with corkers like

FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDF WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOF KINDA on topic interest.

Oh just fucking ignore me..what can I take with this this that won't kill me..some 6 some 5 some fucking methylone ...oh sorry can't ask that so there is no question mark you will no..so no need to report. That was a stream of consciousness not a Question no need report. Ahhh bollocks. Thank you ScotchMist for permission to continue

Oh fuck it. Cunting bollocks day..no boiler working, oven not working, phone not working, lap top fucked and on ancient museum Dell that's so heavy I can't even lift it.

I am fucked I will be fuXERATED shortly and bang on topic.tO HELL WITH TODAY.

 

[ColtDan]

Bit more speed... pretty mashed, lovely

 

[ScotchMist]

Why the hostility? I was joking.

 

[Inflorescence]

Oh shit no it was meant as a genuine fing ScotchMist Christ I am angsty and annoyed but no I honestly thought you were saying..carry on It's one of those days when I think I am being misunderstood, misconstrued by everyone in RL so hiding in here

 

[swampdragon]

I've been thinking that for about 4 pages, inflo! Been scared to even mention being tipsy in case it derailed the debate. Can we just decide that Shambles has won?