The Dissociative Hierarchy and Promotion

[jfischer218]

Is it just me or is there a hierarchy between the dissociatives? Obviously with all the variant RC's out(MXE, 3-meo-pcp, etc.) a list would be hard to compile, but the more traditional dissociatives have a limit to their extent, right? I guess I would order traditional dissociatives weakest to strongest from N20, DXM, K, then PCP. Does anyone else think like this? I've always felt the need to rise up in the ranks of dissociation, for example I started using nitrous at 14, switched to DXM at 15, switched to K at 19 and now I'm considering PCP(or 3-meo...to me it seems like an acceptable substitute in a PCP-derived society, though no doubt I will eventually find a source). My reasoning behind this is because I dont wan't to lose the "magic" too quickly when I try something.

Do you guys believe in graduating from one to the other or would you say to just do whatever? Also, is there a hierarchy? Not just based on potency via amount, but general/all over trip levels

 

[MrPorter]

I think if MXE goes between DXM and K then they would also rank in the NMDA affinity, but don't quote me on that. It is a logical hierarchy which also kind of increases in social rankings. N2O isn't stigmatised at all imo, while PCP is the 'worst of the worst'. DXM is fairly unheard about and Ket is known as a whale tranquilliser or something. Although you say in trip levels there's a bit of hierarchy? uber high DXM sounds far better/worse (depends what you like) than high Ket (anaesthesia) or any of the others, so I suppose that's kind of an anomaly.

I don't think you have to graduate through each level, but jumping in the deep end always has risks. Nos was my 'gateway drug' imo, and then moved on to DXM and have done MXE. It is likely I will do Ket in the next year and unlikely I will ever do PCP without really looking for it, the others have kind of found me.

 

[psood0nym]

I think "general overall trip levels" is too vague a description and people can interpret that too many ways to get any sort of consensus on a hierarchy. You're best bet is to just research each on Erowid and in Bluelight's big and dandy threads to look for whichever best reflects what that description means to you.

In terms of subjective strength of dissociative analgesic effects at common dosage levels among dissociatives I've personally tried, from greatest to least: nitrous (though very short obviously), ketamine, 4-MeO-PCP, MXE, DXM, 3-ho-PCP, 3-MeO-PCP. Based on what I've read in reports only I'd guess PCP would land between ketamine and 4-MeO or 4-MeO and DXM for me. This "subjective strength of analgesic effects" description of mine has more to do with the degree of body tingles and far removed floaty sensations I most associate with "dissociation," as opposed to emotional effects, the sort of crazy manic effects and stimulation more associated with known or supposed PCP receptor activation and dopamine reuptake inhibition, closed eye visuals, euphoria, afterglow, etc, all of which are going to vary in importance between users in their assessment of "general overall trip levels." Using any other of these as the primary criterion for ordering the list would switch things around for me. I consider ketamine the prototypical dissociative, and would certainly say it's the most popular, though MXE has made quite a debut.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Different drugs have different pharmacological profiles, the idea of a hierarchy is nonsensical except in the context of social stigmatization/"hardness" of the drugs.

What people start with has more to do with availability than anything else, and the social circles they're involved in, the same goes for what they do from there.

It is not our job to reinforce cultural myths regarding these drugs, so I'm going to close this (it is also too vague). If you (or somebody else) can come up with a specific set of attributes shared by NMDA antagonists, and have people rank the degree to which various dissociatives produce these effects, that would be fine for a thread topic. Of course, you can also mention dissociatives in the Most...psychedelic threads.