The difference in effect between P. cyanascens/azurascens and cubensis

[IamMe90]

My question is this: is the difference in effect between higher potency strains such as cyanascens/azurascens and cubensis more than merely alkaloid content?

The basis for this question is largely anecdotal. My first experience with cyanescens involved taking a sixteenth, and my first experience with cubensis involved taking an eighth, both in nearly identical sets/settings - given that cyanascens is roughly twice the potency of cubensis, shouldn't the two at least be roughly comparable in effect? Nothing could be farther from my experiences, however. My cyanascens trip was out of this fucking world full blown psychedelia - first, immeasurable fear, followed by full blown ego death, and then complete euphoria. The visuals were the most intense I've ever experienced on any psychedelic drug - things weren't just breathing, they were absolutely warping - like the world was a giant lava lamp. Everything, sound an sight alike, was perceived as moving in what can only be described as extreme slow-mo: voices sounded like flanged, drawn out demonic frog croaks, and I could see their soundwaves flit across the room.

Cubensis, on the other hand, didn't even compare. A stock mushroom trip - cool color enhancement and hallucinations, fairly intense, but really, my ego was intact and the most intense part about it was the minor anxiety attack I had at the peak. I was able to solo this easy, whereas on my cyanascens trip, if my best friend hadn't been there, I feel I surely would have remained in the fetal position for the entire 9 hours.

I know this is anecdotal, but it mystifies me. I'm absolutely no chemist or pharmacologist, so I really don't know anything about this, but I wonder if someone can shed some light. Could have to do with the metabolizing? That is, because such a high amount of alkaloids were metabolized in a smaller concentration, the experience was more profound? I feel there's a parallel here with cannabis, where I can never really replicate the effects of good weed by smoking a ton of mids, for instance.

Any contributions appreciating, even if to point out how woefully ignorant I am.

 

[toocoolforschool]

brainstorming/possabilities

It could have some thing to do with other alkaloids that may be present in one species but not in another. the effect of this might be seen through the comparison of side effects that accompanied the experience... but this is just me brainstorming.
was the "complete wharping" a series of spirals spinning across textured surfaces by any chance?

 

[IamMe90]

It could have some thing to do with other alkaloids that may be present in one species but not in another. the effect of this might be seen through the comparison of side effects that accompanied the experience... but this is just me brainstorming.
was the "complete wharping" a series of spirals spinning across textured surfaces by any chance?

no, it was more of a classic lava lamp look - entire objects would pulsate/contort in such an extreme and fluid way, each object looked just like the blobs that do so in a lava lamp.

 

[Ismene]

I don't think it was because there's anything different in the mushrooms to standard cubensis. Psilocybin is psilocybin and that's the main thing you're feeling. Psilocybin can have an enormous range of effects depending on how you're feeling, what the weather is like etc. I certainly think that because you knew these were "strong" mushrooms it will have affected your trip too.

The way to check for sure is capsule up cubensis and cyans and ask a friend to pick you out a dose in another room.

 

[Ismene]

I remember I used to think there was a difference between "truffles" and cubensis - that the truffles wern't as psychedelic and didn't have the same bodyhigh...And then one day I took some capsules of what I thought were truffles and had the most fantastic trip of my life. Most psychedelic experience ever - I was thinking "Yep, there's definately no way truffles are like cubensis is there".

The morning after I realised I'd taken the capsules out of the truffles jar instead of the cubensis jar.

 

[Solipsis]

Definitely agreed, the appearance can be so suggestive that it colors the experience.
I have not had cyanescens that often but often enough, and subjectively felt a difference compared to cubensis, it felt like qualitatively more potent and more pure. As if it packed a more clear and clean punch, possibly there are just relatively less alkaloids in them compared besides psilocin / psilocybin.

Much later I tried LSD and it reminded me of the cyanescens trips because it was also more clean and clear. Exactly the same is true for my trips on 4-HO-MET.

But who knows what had happened if they were capped and given blindly by a friend?

 

[moe.ron]

I know I have seen a lot people here and on shroomery say the qualitative difference between different strains of mushrooms has to do with the level of Baeocystin and norbaeocystin contained in the mushrooms. This has also been hypothesized to explain the subjective differences between mushrooms, normal psilocin, and 4-aco-dmt as well. Now I'm not convinced on this for several reasons, but I feel like it is at least on the right track.

To really understand we have to go back to your question: "is the difference in effect between higher potency strains such as cyanascens/azurascens and cubensis more than merely alkaloid content?" First of all lets look at the known alkaloid content of these mushrooms as provided here: http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml


SPECIES % PSILOCYBIN % PSILOCIN % BAEOCYSTIN
P. azurenscens 1.78 .38 .35
P. cyanescens .85 .36 .03
P. cubensis .63 .60 .025

So if we were interested in believing it is baeocystin responsible for the difference in effect then we would expect azurenscens to be the most *unique* from all other types of mushrooms as it has by far the highest baeocystin of any known mushroom besides P. semilanceata, which may have just a little bit more by weight. Myself, I cannot comment because I have not tried azurenscens, but I have tried semilanceata (liberty caps) once. Anyways following this train of thought you would expect cyans and cubes to be very similar in effect because although cyans have more psilocybin and psilocin by weight then cubensis, they have almost the exact same beaocystin content by weight (although if you wanted to compensate for the slight less psilocin in the cubes by eating a bit more then you would have ingested more beaocystin then if you had taken cyans). So basically we would expect mushrooms with more beaocystin to be more like other species of mushrooms with more beaocystin, and vice versa.

Is this true in the real world? IME yes and no. FOR INSTANCE an eighth of Liberty caps (P. semilanceata) provided me with one of the strongest mental trips of my life, stronger then say 7 grams of cubensis. BUT 7 grams of normal b+ strain cubensis visually and physically blow liberty caps out of the water.

This makes sense if you want to believe beaocystin is responsible more for the mental effects of mushrooms, and psilocin for the visual and mental effects (this may explain why 4-aco-dmt, which somebody smarter then me hypothesized to be converted into psilocin in the brain, cant remember if it was shulgin or hoffman at the moment, has been widely reported to be more clear headed then mushrooms).

BUT what about cyans? I have tried cyans several times and I consider them to be a very well rounded species of mushroom. It creates visual, mental, and physical effects of equal intensity across the board. 3 grams of cyans are very similar to 4 or 5 grams of cubensis to me, but with stronger mental effects. If the beaocystin content is similar in both species then what explains this?

AND what about Penis Envys? NOTHING I have ever tried have equaled the mental head fuck I went through on an eighth of PE's, but PE's are just a particular strain of cubensis. What could explain this? I know PE's are hybrids, Mckennas gift to the world, but how was he able to drastically increase the baeocystin content?

Bottom line, I do believe there are not just subjective differences from mushroom species to mushroom species, but actual qualitative differences in effect. Of course as long as mushrooms remain a schedule 1 substance we will never know what is the reason for this, we will never know if baeocystin is responsible for more of the mental effects and psilocin responsible for the others, hell, well never even be able to varify the alkaloid content in todays mushrooms vs. the mushrooms of when the original alkaloid content was determined. Its such a shame, really.

 

[IamMe90]

Thank you for the info on baeocystin, I've never heard of that alkaloid - very interesting! I have yet to try azurenscens myself, but hopefully one day I'll have the time and effort to grow them myself.