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⫸STICKY⫷ The Delphic Oracle- Know Thyself: P&S Social Ampitheatre of Doom

Appreciated!

Hope everything goes alright levels.

And I fell behind in terms of driving. I'll be getting permit his year, and my license a year from now.

:)
 
I've been using Phenibut a bit too much, I think it's starting to adversitily affect my kidneys or liver. I think I need to see the doctor. I've been waking up extremely dehydrated this week.
 
That's no good ninae. Definitely see your doc, keep up fluids and electrolytes. What happens if you don't take phenibut?
 
Yea, I'm in pretty bad shape, I'll make an update tomorrow. Nothing dangerous. Just feeling weak right now.
 
I just took too much Phenibut. At first I would only take 1,5- 2 grams. Then I lost track and didn't even measure it out and in the end I think I was taking almost 5 grams a day. I started getting symptoms like waking up really thirsty or with a full bladder and the co-ordination in my legs was also off. So I realised it was doing real organ damage.

I just hadn't looked into it much and didn't realise how dangerous it can be. Taking it in high doses is the equivalent to having more alcohol than you can drink every day for your liver and kidneys. Anyway, it seems to be getting better now. Just another stupid thing I've done.

I didn't go to the doctor as I caught it just in time and they don't need to know about that.
 
I'm glad you're feeling bit better. If it is organ damage you probably should get checked out by Dr. Is it safe for you to just quit? I Suggest a taper.
 
I did just quit, or tapered down very drastically in one week. I've pretty much detoxed now. Just feeling a bit depressed and anxious.
 
Yikes Ninae take care of organ issues, you dont want to be looking forward to colostomy bags in your golden years. I've wreaked my liver from booze, it's still functioning but I have heterochromia in both eyes. It isn't affecting my vision yet but it will. At least for me it is a circular dark gold ring around each pupil and not blotches or something ugly. I'm hoping it holds out and I stopped soon enough.
 
Ninae said:
I've been using Phenibut a bit too much, I think it's starting to adversitily affect my kidneys or liver. I think I need to see the doctor. I've been waking up extremely dehydrated this week.
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Do you take the sodium salt of it? Because in that case you're taking too much sodium and that may be responsible for your dehydration.

Whatever the case, phenibut could use a little more research. Taking a substance in the gram range may as well affect organs. Typically, small-dose substances like benzos (mg or even sub-mg doses) can be viewed as mainly affecting only their target receptors, but drugs in the gram range are in enough quantity to do all kinds of stuff.

Don't forget that phenibut is at least as potent as a VDCC blocker (same as pregabalin and gabapentin) as it is a GABA-B agonist. I don't remember you liking the gabapentinoids, so there's that too.
 
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belligerent drunk said:
Don't forget that phenibut is at least as potent as a VDCC blocker (same as pregabalin and gabapentin)
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That's right. What does that do?

I reckon Phenibut is potentially much more dangerous than Gabapentin, though. Large daily doses are like drinking all day, only worse because there's a limit to how much you can drink.

Seems staying in the 1,5 gram a day limit is what is needed.
 
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^ I'm sorry, I don't have enough free time (and I'm tired) to research the subject at this time, like where VDCCs are located mainly and what they're responsible for, but my main point was that VDCC blockage is the mechanism of action of gabapentinoids (gabapentin, pregabalin) - and you have stated that you disliked those drugs very much - and phenibut also acts as a VDCC blocker1. Since they mess with Ca2+ currents in neuronal cells, improper activity at those channels may result in excitotoxicity known as Olney's lesions. However, my understanding of more recent literature is that such excitotoxicity requires pretty tough conditions - such as extreme benzo withdrawal (which subsequently increases glutamatergic activity - and thus Ca2+ current into the cell), or withdrawal from extremely high-dose use of NMDA-antagonists (withdrawal also increasing glutamatergic activity too much - too much Ca2+ - cells deading). In any case, my understanding of the literature is that permanent brain damage from excitotoxicity is extremely rare in humans. The brain is very plastic, and even if it takes months or years, things can get back to normal.

Back to my original point. Phenibut may seem dirty as a drug - it definitely seemed that way to me (1-5 g/day usage a few years ago). But maybe that's because it acts on GABA-B not GABA-A. Anyway, on the other hand, reasonable use of phenibut seems to be harmless and generally alright. Overdoing practically any drug may result in unwanted, lasting after-effects. So, I'm glad you've decreased your use - try to use every other day or "as needed". Occasional use is great sometimes.

Alcohol is, hands down, much more harmful than phenibut. If you take phenibut as a sodium salt, then supplement add potassium-containing foods or use (at least food-grade) commercial potassium chloride as a salting agent instead of the normally used sodium chloride. I actually did that for a while. KCl is not nearly as good as a salt as NaCl, but a 1:1 mix ain't too bad, and also provides the often lacking potassium in your diet. Going further off-topic, you do know that unless you monitor what you intake in terms of minerals in the Western world, you're probably taking 2-4 times more sodium than you need, and may not be getting enough potassium.

Anyway, hope you're well soon :)

1 Phenibut's receptor affinities are about as follows, in relative units: (S)-phenibut at GABAB ~0, (R)-phenibut at GABAB 1, (RS)-phenibut at VDCC 4. So, if you're getting a racemate (50% S- and 50% R-isomer), then you have 8 times higher affinity for VDCC.

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Fellow dissociative connoisseurs, have you tried O-PCE and how would you compare it to other dissos you've done? It's the only one I've done since it's legal here, and I'm finding it very interesting. Well, if we exclude solvents like ether...
 
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I haven't tried O-PCE, I'd like to but just haven't bothered to get any yet because I have been restocking my tryptamines and some others. It sounds pretty nice, I've heard there's a long trailing stimulation, which I'm not that into with dissos.
 
That's one thing that bothers me about MXE, that residual serotonergic stimulation. Easily managed with GHB though.

What tryptamines xorkoth? I had a small dose of 4-ho-met last night, bit of DMT too. Nice short trip, was in bed by 1am.
 
Ninae, I know it is unpopular and hypocritical to question people's drug use on sites like this, but what exactly is phenibut doing for you that is worth risking it for? Between the diet, meditation, yoga and other spiritual practices you've been doing awesome. I'm cheering you on. Phenibut can cause nasty addiction and withdrawals. Please consider using it every other day or less as B_D mentioned if you intend on sticking with it. Better yet, use it now and again or best of all, not at all. I've tried it and honestly found it to be pretty lame, with the vomiting, hangovers and constant redosing.
 
Phenibut seems to affect different people differently. I've never vomited from it, if I dose right there is no hangover either, and one dose lasts all day (well I split it into 2 doses for better absorption), I've never felt the slightest bit compulsed to it. It takes so long to take effect, it doesn't lend itself well to compulsive dosing. And for me dosing every day for a year at 3 or more grams led to a week of bad anxiety (quite bad) when I stopped, but that was it. However I have talked to people who found it to be a lot "harder" of a drug with a totally different description of its effects and withdrawal.

But yeah, every other day is the absolute highest level of use I could recommend for phenibut, I've been using it on and off for 10 years. If you do every other day for a long time it starts to produce dependence slowly. Every third day seems sustainable indefinitely and it's my recommendation if you want to have a regular schedule, even better is just using it occasionally for specific purposes. Currently I'm doing e very third day with occasional every other day instances. I find it incredibly useful as a tool for making music, because it produces a state of flowing euphoria during which I feel very inspired and intensely emotionally into things. I use it regularly because I play music almost every day and generally on a schedule so the situation I like to use it for comes up over and over again. I like its effects on me a lot but it has to be done the right way. I actually wrote a long summary of my 10 years of experience, it's in the TR forum, you might want to read it Ninae: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...prehensive-Long-Term-Synopsis-and-Usage-Guide

swilow said:
What tryptamines xorkoth? I had a small dose of 4-ho-met last night, bit of DMT too. Nice short trip, was in bed by 1am.
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Let's see, I picked up some 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-MET, 4-HO-MiPT, and 4-AcO-DET. And also some MPT freebase. There are some others I want to get too, but tryptamines are expensive. I really wanted to get those 4 because they're really great tryptamines that each have a bit of a different niche for me, and the MPT because I like exploring new frontiers, and I've had 4-HO-MPT and found it to be really great. Once a month or less (less, lately) I like to get together with my friend and eat a large dose of tryptamines and spend the trip playing music together, we call them the tryptamine jams. It feels like I'm being guided by something, we get to this state where there is an epic story being told with the music, and every note seems self-evident and effortless. I use those experiences to generate new ideas that I can use in my regular playing.
 
For stress. And it seems to cancel out negative ego energies a lot for me. Now that I've used it more it reminds me of a more stimulating Etizolam, although more sober feeling than that. It just feels like being in a naturally good mood and in great shape to perform activities, just more energy.

I used to think it was lame but then I had access to stronger things like opiates, benzos, Lyrica, etc. I'd only try it when I ran out of other drugs and I would get a shitty high with a bad hangover because I took too much of it. It was only when I started using it regularly that I could see any value in it, or compared to not taking it.

But I think it works more as a medicine than a recreational drug, it's only really recreational if you take it once in a while. Anyway, thanks for the advice. I'm going to be careful and we'll see how it goes.
 
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