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Social The Delphic Oracle - Know Thyself: P&S Social Ampitheatre of Doom

herbavore said:
So sadly true.....buying junk, and moving it around the world on container ships so that it can be bought and then completely destroying bigger and bigger bites of the earth putting it in some landfill or just floating it out to sea....

Speaking of the sea however, I just went swimming in the ocean and it was soooooooo great. I don't do that much here--it's cold water and I usually don't get hot enough. But both those factors changed--ocean is about 5 degrees warmer than usual and it's been hotter than hell here so in I went. The beach was crowded with lots of tourists and locals both in the water and the whole time we were in one little leopard seal and one sea lion tracked us all and tried to play. I love it when they poke their little dog faces up out of the water.
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so i'm not just being a fanatic when i think that consumer capitalism is based on addiction - the need to buy newer and better stuff all the time? that's the fundament of suffering, trying to find peace by gaining/winning/something, only to find an emptiness that needs to be filled by another dose.i don't *get* shopping - but i see it happening. from a distance, it's ugly. that's all about Naked Lunch, that's why it's my fav book - making you look at the processes of your life, seeing the junkie xl.

if all americans found spiritual peace, the economy would collapse overnight. within two months there'd be cannibalism in china. joyous people don't need *stuff*. they have joy - and they can give it away and it only multiples. it that crazy?
 
do you want something that makes you never want to use the drug again? i wanted control - the ability to turn an addiction off, period.
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Thank you Tantric. I used the DXM method recently to quit smoking. The spiritual experience I had was perhaps the most profound and overwhelming I can recall. At some point I think I exasperated my own higher self — or maybe I was just creating that part. That's the thing, hard part was I couldn't tell anymore with clarity. This wasn't plain old ego anymore. This was super-ego, a devious monster of cosmic proportions. I prayed harder than I ever had to be able to tell the difference and used all the techniques I had at my disposal to not abuse my own power. It messed with me in a major way, but thing is, it wasn't the DXM that did it, it's always been there, I just had access. Ancient forgotten super-memories that transcend lifetimes. Soul themes. Still working on the language to describe this. At some point I experienced the oneness which was an all-permeating light, and I started worm-holing myself into the nothingness, and then back again. I couldn't make up my mind where I belonged. The super-ego part of me was afraid. It said things like "God encases rogue souls like yours in crystals so they can't be a threat to creation." My heart was my saving grace throughout it. So yeah, in a word. Intense.

It took me three days using DXM to get to the point where I felt my addictions were gone. I consumed DXM the first day I quit smoking and continued upping the dose until I got to a very large dose on day three. Then my urge to smoke was completely gone and it hasn't returned. No triggers, no coping strategies. Pretty miraculous stuff, though I don't give the credit to the substance, I give it to the experience itself. Anyways, thanks for sharing it. I'm grateful. Maybe one day you will write this up into a more formal protocol and add more disclaimers as well, because for some people the trade-off is not an acceptable/desirable one. Had I not been battle hardened from being a spiritual seeker with 100's of psychedelic trips under my belt, I may not have found the trade-off acceptable either.
 
well....dude, you took WAY too much. but you are an experienced shaman, and it worked for you, and i'm glad. note - if you don't eat a low fat low protein diet, you will eventually return to addiction. just saying.

and yes, DXM induces the religious experience - which is the cure. there's no possible DXM lite without that which will work.
 
I just dislike the effects of DXM. It almost always causes nausea and often vomiting, and it doesn't seem to matter if I take cough syrup or DXM powder. The dissociative effects feel really dirty next to ketamine or methoxetamine. I decided to buy some syrup 6 months ago, had about 300mg all up and vomited intensely. Nothing like that happens with k or MXE.

Does MXE have any nicotinic affinity? I think PCP might...
 
I'll say it one last time:

It is better for your character, I think, to learn self-control.

And, this is a harm reduction forum... *Sigh.* I feel a bit like Lisa Simpson, sometimes.
I don't know why I bother saying this, but here goes:

Vaguely promoting dissociative drugs as a miracle cure for nicotine addiction is irresponsible.
There should, at the very least, be a disclaimer or some kind of caution.
As willow said, the effects of DXM (for many) are unpleasant.

And, although I personally love DXM (it is one of my favorite all time drugs), I don't think it's very spiritual (relative to lots of other drugs).
I've seen people have nightmarishly bad experiences on the drug. It's hard to say for sure, but I honestly suspect (in a couple of cases) that it permanently scarred them.
Also, there have been a whole bunch of bluelighters who've reported serious DXM habits along with significant side effects (depression, delirium, etc) from long term use.

I think - in most cases - that it's not an appropriate treatment for nicotine addiction (unless it's a last resort).

And, it seems a bit odd to me that tantric is promoting this as a nicotine addiction cure rather than a replacement... when, according to him, he - himself - replaced cigarettes with nicotine. Unless I'm missing something. Didn't you say you had DXM every day now, tantric? And, if so, how is replacing one addictive drug with another an improvement?

The long term effects of DXM on the brain have yet to be determined.
You're gambling with your health when you consume ANY drug on a daily basis.

...

And, *exhale*.
 
Does MXE have any nicotinic affinity? I think PCP might...
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No, but DXM itself acts as an alpha-7 nicotinic antagonist, which explains some of its efficacy in combating nicotine addiction and also some of the dysphoric effects that tend to go along with the high.

ebola
 
ForEverAfter said:
I'll say it one last time:

It is better for your character, I think, to learn self-control.

And, this is a harm reduction forum... *Sigh.* I feel a bit like Lisa Simpson, sometimes.
I don't know why I bother saying this, but here goes:

Vaguely promoting dissociative drugs as a miracle cure for nicotine addiction is irresponsible.
There should, at the very least, be a disclaimer or some kind of caution.
As willow said, the effects of DXM (for many) are unpleasant.

And, although I personally love DXM (it is one of my favorite all time drugs), I don't think it's very spiritual (relative to lots of other drugs).
I've seen people have nightmarishly bad experiences on the drug. It's hard to say for sure, but I honestly suspect (in a couple of cases) that it permanently scarred them.
Also, there have been a whole bunch of bluelighters who've reported serious DXM habits along with significant side effects (depression, delirium, etc) from long term use.

I think - in most cases - that it's not an appropriate treatment for nicotine addiction (unless it's a last resort).

And, it seems a bit odd to me that tantric is promoting this as a nicotine addiction cure rather than a replacement... when, according to him, he - himself - replaced cigarettes with nicotine. Unless I'm missing something. Didn't you say you had DXM every day now, tantric? And, if so, how is replacing one addictive drug with another an improvement?

The long term effects of DXM on the brain have yet to be determined.
You're gambling with your health when you consume ANY drug on a daily basis.

...

And, *exhale*.
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how would one replace cigs with nic? i quit ALL addictions with DXM. so, taking my insulin everyday is unhealthy? why is prozac better than DXM, given that prozac turns me into miserable bastard and DXM allowed me to handle a phd program in an area i'd never before studied? if i don't take my daily dose, my mojo peters off slowly and i get bogged down in the grind and cease functioning well, but i don't go into withdrawal and i don't crave it. i take less than a first plateau dose, about half that, daily - i don't trip on it, that's the therapeutic level. and dude, it's FDA approved - it'd been tested ad extremum and it's OTC. i'm not worried. listen to me: I DO NOT FUNCTION IN SOCIETY WITHOUT SOME FORM OF PSYCHOTHERAPEUTIC MEDICINE, I'VE TRIED DOZENS OF PRESCRIPTIONS, ALL OF THEM SUCKED. THIS WORKS. i'm sorry if the idea of successful self-medication makes your brain hurt, but it's a fact.

willow likely lacks the enzymes to convert DXM to DXO - DXM is actually VERY unpleasant, i'm a rapid metabolizer, i haven't felt that sickening dirty feeling since the first few times i took it. i would suspect that MXE would work just as well for addiction cessation.
 
i take less than a first plateau dose, about half that, daily
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So like 60 mg or so? This seems pretty reasonable to me, though I'd be wary of accumulating dosage, just due to DXM's (well, DXO's) lengthy lingering effects.
However, at least used as anti-depressant therapy, it's not typically productive to take dissociatives daily indefinitely. At least in my experience, it is more useful to take therapeutic doses for a couple to a few days, and then let the lingering effects manifest while remaining sober (for me, the anti-depressant effect extends about 2 weeks beyond the initial dosing).

ebola
 
how would one replace cigs with nic? i quit ALL addictions with DXM. so, taking my insulin everyday is unhealthy? why is prozac better than DXM, given that prozac turns me into miserable bastard and DXM allowed me to handle a phd program in an area i'd never before studied? if i don't take my daily dose, my mojo peters off slowly and i get bogged down in the grind and cease functioning well, but i don't go into withdrawal and i don't crave it. i take less than a first plateau dose, about half that, daily - i don't trip on it, that's the therapeutic level. and dude, it's FDA approved - it'd been tested ad extremum and it's OTC. i'm not worried. listen to me: I DO NOT FUNCTION IN SOCIETY WITHOUT SOME FORM OF PSYCHOTHERAPEUTIC MEDICINE, I'VE TRIED DOZENS OF PRESCRIPTIONS, ALL OF THEM SUCKED. THIS WORKS. i'm sorry if the idea of successful self-medication makes your brain hurt, but it's a fact.

willow likely lacks the enzymes to convert DXM to DXO - DXM is actually VERY unpleasant, i'm a rapid metabolizer, i haven't felt that sickening dirty feeling since the first few times i took it. i would suspect that MXE would work just as well for addiction cessation.
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With all due respect: I've heard all sorts of people rationalize why they take heroin on a daily basis, and they sound exactly like you.
 
tantric said:
how would one replace cigs with nic? i quit ALL addictions with DXM. so, taking my insulin everyday is unhealthy? why is prozac better than DXM, given that prozac turns me into miserable bastard and DXM allowed me to handle a phd program in an area i'd never before studied? if i don't take my daily dose, my mojo peters off slowly and i get bogged down in the grind and cease functioning well, but i don't go into withdrawal and i don't crave it. i take less than a first plateau dose, about half that, daily - i don't trip on it, that's the therapeutic level. and dude, it's FDA approved - it'd been tested ad extremum and it's OTC. i'm not worried. listen to me: I DO NOT FUNCTION IN SOCIETY WITHOUT SOME FORM OF PSYCHOTHERAPEUTIC MEDICINE, I'VE TRIED DOZENS OF PRESCRIPTIONS, ALL OF THEM SUCKED. THIS WORKS. i'm sorry if the idea of successful self-medication makes your brain hurt, but it's a fact.

willow likely lacks the enzymes to convert DXM to DXO - DXM is actually VERY unpleasant, i'm a rapid metabolizer, i haven't felt that sickening dirty feeling since the first few times i took it. i would suspect that MXE would work just as well for addiction cessation.
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And this is why weed should be legal...
 
People shouldn't, ideally, be consuming weed/DXM (or any mind-altering drug) on a daily basis indefinitely.

why is prozac better than DXM
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When did I say it was?

And this is why weed should be legal...
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On the contrary: that is why it is illegal in the first place.
 
My point was:

We are the only indication that the non-drug world have of drugs.
If we're promoting daily use (of anything) that doesn't look good.

The non-drug world is afraid of people using every day.
And, frankly, they should be.
Dependency is not good.
 
That's essentially correct, though there is a sparing number of psychiatric medications and nootropics which prove exceptions (whether it is likely truly safe to take these daily indefinitely is an open question which we've only begin to address).

ebola
 
I recently convinced my girlfriend to stop taking her anti-depressants.
She'd been taking them every day for six years (since she was in high school).
Since she stopped, she has (according to her) been totally fine.
Sometimes, I think, we convince ourselves we need drugs.

But, yeah, there are exceptions to every rule.
I'm not going to tell everybody I meet to stop taking their medication.
I just don't think anybody should take it for granted that they need daily drugs.
When possible, we should stop.

tantric said (in another thread) that he's been taking daily DXM for decades.
I'm not convinced that he needs to keep doing so.
My girlfriend thought she needed anti-depressants.

Maybe, sometimes, we don't need the drugs we've grown dependent upon... you know?
(Including weed.)
 
I think SSRIs are only pitifully reliably effective, and I don't think it appropriate to give psychoactive medications to children (one needs capability to make autonomous decisions before deciding whether to take them). Then again, they work for some people, so who am I to deny that?

ebola
 
Sure. I'm not denying anyone medication. (Not saying that's what you're suggesting either.)
But, I think it's important to recognize the potential for dependency (and abuse) when it comes to anti-depressant medication.
People tend to separate mind altering drugs into three categories: illegal/recreational, legal/recreational and pharmaceutical.
There's a sub-category in the latter, also, that we recognize as "pharmaceutical with potential for abuse".

A lot of people regard the daily indefinite consumption of anti-psychotic medication and anti-depressant medications as, merely, pharmaceutical.
This results in people - like my girlfriend - not questioning their indefinite daily consumption of "medicine".
My cousin is (a diagnosed) schizophrenic... And, I am not convinced that his medication is perfect either.
Yet, particularly with schizophrenics, there is a hesitancy to alter the program (if "it's working").

It becomes proportionally more complicated as the disorder becomes less manageable without drugs.
But, the majority of psychiatric illness is treatable long-term through therapy (I think).

Like when quitting cigarettes, drugs should be a last resort.
Because, they don't really cure the problem.

If you use one drug to quit another drug, you don't learn to quit.
You don't gain the skills necessary to combat other addictions.

If you're taking DXM on a daily basis, that means there is something wrong.
And whatever that is - the core of the problem - it's going to stay there, until you do something about it.

Psychedelic drugs can be used to address core problems.
But, it doesn't sound like that is what tantric is promoting.

You could probably find a daily (or bi-hourly) dose of alcohol that had the same (basic) effect.
I'm sure if somebody bothered to experiment, they could work out a system that made life easier without ever getting them noticeably drunk.

I "medicate".
I drink. I vaporize weed.
I had DXM yesterday. 450 mg.
And it was just as much medication as tantric's daily dose is.
Recreation is medication. I was treating my boredom.
Because my boredom drives me insane.
I need that, every now and then.
But, I don't need it every day.
And: neither do you.
 
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I try to listen to a bit of everything.
I get bored if I listen to the same shit.

I prefer classical to most modern music, because it's pure.
There's no bullshit.

Hearing the same lyrics over and over again is a bit boring.
But 1950's era music always puts me in a good mood.

Depends on my mood and what drug I'm on.
On DXM, I tend to like weird music (like jazz drum solos, Mr. Bungle and eccentric classical).
 
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