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Social The Delphic Oracle - Know Thyself: P&S Social Ampitheatre of Doom

Perhaps we are missing the point a bit in comparing actual intelligence. Dogs have lived alongside humans long enough for both species to co-evolve. Its thought that dogs/canines lived at the periphery of humans for several thousand years, scrounging on our scraps and possibly guarding large kills, before being actually domesticated. Humans domesticated dogs primarily for utilitarian purposes, as protection, extension of sense, strong workers... We selected animals recipient to humans, with little fear and bread out human-specific agression. Dogs have shown the ability to learn the context behind word-sounds after one iteration of it. They can respond weeks later to it. This demonstrates a certain refined contextual and associative memory more then intelligence. If a feral domesticated dog pack has territory within the same range as a wolf pack, they tend to move their own homebase closer to human habitation, understanding that wolves, being wary of humans, will keep away. Dogs and humans have had a symbiotic relationship to the extent that we have both exerted selective pressure on each other.

The same cannot really be said about cats. In a sense, I think cats have a more refined sense of self and awareness, but they don't have a whole lot of use for humans, besides ornamentation. Their capacity to keep down populations of vermin shouldn't be discounted, but by and large they have existed with humans for aesthetic pleasure. They seem to have a wider intelligence then dogs, and a more refined physical intelligence, but it is an intellect that offers less value to humans, and might therefore appear to be less potent.

They are both creatures who have innately beautiful characteristics. I love the loyalty and eagerness of dogs, their desire to please and their desire to find fun and joy wherever they happen to be. I love how cats can be dramatic and showy, performing actions which seem redundant but have a degree of theatre to them (random grooming, sudden diversions from predictable behaviour), as if they are trying to tell us to be alert. Dogs are very subservient, or can be, whilst cats have little interest in subservience. I imagine they utterly dismiss the idea. :)

I pretty much agree with what you said here. And yeah, dogs are amazing too, I love them both. I grew up a dog person and then when I got cats 11 years ago I became a cat person too (previously I had known a few cats I thought were cool but I didn't really get them or want them. My ex sort of forced us to get my cats and as soon as I met my little boy I utterly fell in love with him. The first time he saw me, at like 2 weeks old, he locked eyes with me really intensely and took his longest walk thus far, across the room, climbed up my leg, up my chest, and started nuzzling my face. Love at first sight for us both. <3). Dogs are beautiful in their sweetness and devotion, and awesome for their silliness and excitement. A cat is more like someone who lives with you who you feed, but they are capable of a lot of love too, and my cats are hilarious and silly. They have complex personalities. They're really interesting to watch because they are so purposeful with what they do - they're always doing something when they're up and active, something very deliberate. For example, my girl cat always finds socks around the house and arranges them in formations on the floor, pointing to various things.

I wonder if we'll have domesticated any other currently wild animal in 5000 years (if the smouldering ruin houses life of course). Imagine if, for some reason, it was domesticated octopus.

In Russia they've domesticated foxes... apparently they make great pets. I bet a fox would be awesome to know, they're like an intermediate species between dogs and cats.
 
i was inspired by the Mystical Music and Mystical Texts thread, but didn't know where to put it. apropos nothing? actually, we could discuss adaptation of hindu epics. i propose Lord of Light - great book.

better idea, we all pick a time and watch the charleton heston Ten Commandments but we have an audio only chat going, so we can mystery science theater 3000 (henceforth MST3K) it? that would be a *riot*
 
do you wonder about death?

i was wondering that if there is an afterlife, let's say dmt-induced. as in living on that spiritual plane forever. how can there be no end to it? i guess this is why people believe in reincarnation. i just can't fathom tripping on your life forever. but i mean there also shouldn't be a sense of time in the after-life.

sometimes my curiosity of death gets really high and i think i can just end my life n see what it's about, get all the answers. i mean, this life is very frustrating and i despise the society we live in today.

this is probably why opening your mind from 17 with psychedelics is a bad idea.

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ima def post here more. the reason i don't post in P&S + CE&P is because i grew up arguing those things and i realized how pointless it is though you can learn a lot. it's just a never ending discussion of personal beliefs and since the PD social has heavy traffic, i thought this one may be a lil more chill to discuss my latest musings in a casual manner
 
do you wonder about death?
from another post:
i had an interesting 'death' experience in the depths of a 5meoDMT trip. it was set in the time of the french revolution and i was being guillotined. the vision was incredibly real: the smell, the sounds, the ominous walk up the steps, etc.

i had heard somebody say a few days earlier "at the moment of death all life's questions are answered". i was thinking about this at the point at which my head was cut off. my trip moved on somewhere else after that... if you have tried 5meoDMT you'll know that it's pretty intense. i was, during the trip in danger of freaking myself out.

however, i kept coming back to the saying and it was, rather, a really serene experience.
alasdair
 
In other news, I just went to see my sister and her kids, and the guy she's with is very kind and super-innocent. But my sister is pretty bossy and not easily pleased (I'm much more laissez-faire, we're different like that). The funny thing is the way he asks her all the time - "Lone? How do I do this? How does this work? How do you spell that in English?".
 
Yes, he's really wide-eyed and naive, almost like a grown-up child. It took her a long time to find someone good enough, but then bam, that was it. But they're very good at sharing everything that needs to be done equally. Like he vaccumms and she cleans. So I guess that works out for them.
 
I know a lot of guys in that sort of vein who are with bossy women. I was for 12 years... I think for some guys it might work but for me, I resented her pushing me around. But then I've never liked when people do that and traditionally I've been really easy to push around (though I'm getting a lot better at not letting them). I think people who are bossy are attracted to that a lot of the time because then they can do it with minimal conflict, and some people seem to want to be bossed around too.
 

i heard 5-MeO-DMT is very intense. not interested in it however.

i've smoked DMT and "died" several times. i must say, if that is death then i cannot wait. i believe DMT desensitizes us to death and gives us a sneak peak. but this is based on the assumption that death is a huge DMT trip which i'm happy to believe.

I know a lot of guys in that sort of vein who are with bossy women. I was for 12 years... I think for some guys it might work but for me, I resented her pushing me around. But then I've never liked when people do that and traditionally I've been really easy to push around (though I'm getting a lot better at not letting them). I think people who are bossy are attracted to that a lot of the time because then they can do it with minimal conflict, and some people seem to want to be bossed around too.

my ex used to think she can boss me around but the reality was she wanted to be with me more than i to her. whenever she stepped outta line i'd just reveal my ignorant side and she'd back off. we are men xork.

she used to say she'd break up w/me then get back w/me the next day to prove a point. i said if you ever did that i'd never get back w/you.

she never did it :). i realized being assertive is the way to go. i used to be a lil bit of a pushover as well
 
5-Meo-DMT is unbelievably intense. Unpleasant if you take just a tiny bit too much, but can be quite beautiful if used prudently.

It does feel like dying (how could I know?) but salvia divinorum is much more intense (IMO).
 
I know a lot of guys in that sort of vein who are with bossy women. I was for 12 years... I think for some guys it might work but for me, I resented her pushing me around. But then I've never liked when people do that and traditionally I've been really easy to push around (though I'm getting a lot better at not letting them). I think people who are bossy are attracted to that a lot of the time because then they can do it with minimal conflict, and some people seem to want to be bossed around too.


Yep, he seems to look to her more as a mother-figure and be happy with it, and she has a strong control-need so it works for their personalities. Though I think mostly because they are both good people and can keep it on a high level, as that kind of interaction can get very negative.

But my sister has a strong need to dominate or lay down the rules and always resented me having the authority for being the oldest. She has always been pretty reserved towards men, I think that's because she's a realist and realise how hard relationships with men can be, and don't just throw herself into it like some women. Whereas I'm more idealist and wouldn't say realist exactly.

I guess it just depends on the man what they can deal with. If they don't want to do any wrong and are just happy for someone to lead them on the right path I guess that can work out well for them. It might not be such a bad thing if it's a woman with high standards for herself and others.
 
Yeah it's an individual thing. Personally, in my ex-relationship, she had a lot of ideas I didn't agree with, and over the course of 12 years she gradually beat me down into believing that aspects of myself that I loved (and love again now) were actually character flaws or problems with my personality. It led to a lot of self-loathing and internal confusion. I feel like I know who I am and I know how to live my life and I love myself, so for me, I will avoid control freaks like the plague in the future. I'm probably a little extra sensitive to it, but it really was a weird and sick period in my life now that I reflect on it. She was so mean and twisted about it (though I believe she was just trying to do the right thing, but she had a distorted perception of what that was based on her own intense fears of lack of control). But I'm sure not everyone does it in a mean way.

Also the idea of seeing your partner as a mother figure really turns me off. My ex would always accuse me of making her be my mother, when in reality she forced herself into that role, I never wanted it or thought of her that way.
 
It's funny, people are different, and the roles we take up with each other can be really strong/locked or almost impossible to change. Like, I'm more medium dominant, so I don't like being dominated but I also don't have any real need to dominate. Or, I can lead when necessary, but it's not compulsive like for my sister.

I just get tired of it and like to relax more about that kind of thing. It takes up so much energy and I think you need to have real fear to be motivated for it (and most have quite a lot of that). But when someone are really in a role you can sometimes just forget about it, they will hold on for dear life. It's weird how strong our roles are, too, whether we're low, medium, or high dominant. Seems more like a biological thing that's hard to change, although I'm sure environment/experience plays in to it too, and it really makes a difference in your life.
 
It does seem to be at least in part biological. Some people are just a certain way. Some families have a higher incidence of traits like that. Certainly there is some nurture happening there, not just nature, but it's crazy how complex our biology is, to be able to produce and reproduce personality traits seemingly unattached to individual consciousness development.
 
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