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The Climate Change AND contentious science thread- vampires and dark matter

N

Ninae

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Mod note: shifted posts over from the "Anyone feeling it?" thread. Lets keep this topic for the great debate of our times, that surrounding climate change. It would appear to go hand-in-hand with other debates about the fundamental of our current physical understandings.

Clearly, this is not the science forum so let's not limit our ideas to science. I'd love to hear any totally whacky ideas (to ruthlessly dismantle!:D). This topic may get a bit heated (pun intended) but let us play nice and try and learn something here.- willow 11.

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I'm starting to wonder if there is anything to the original prophecies that spoke of great earth changes coming at this time.

Lately people have been rather saying we're on a different timeline where this won't be necessary, but how would we know? The reason I'm beginning to wonder is the extreme weather changes we've been seeing for the past years. Indeed, this has been the warmest winter I've ever seen, the fields are still green and it's more like one long autumn and summer.

And there have now been quite a few talking about how the earth is changing itself to become more temperate, so climates will change in many places of the world, and even different forms of terraforming where peaks will turn into valleys, etc.
 
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climate change due to greenhouse gases has been predicted by scientists for decades. nothing surprising here imo
 
Well, it doesn't mean there won't be a natural reason for it. I'm just wondering how far the physical changes are going to go.
 
Well, there is an idea that it's really the earth making itself more temperate, which will allow for a different form of living and new animal species springing up, etc. Either way, it sure is becoming more temporate.
 
-=SS=- said:
Shame its nothing but hot air though. Total scam.
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I don't believe climate change is a scam. We really do dump insane amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and it's a greenhouse gas. The polar ice caps really are melting quickly. I realize we're still coming out of an ice age but the amount of change I've seen since I was a kid is pretty intense. These changes don't happen quickly in one human lifetime, they happen over geological time.
 
Xorkoth said:
I don't believe climate change is a scam. We really do dump insane amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, and it's a greenhouse gas. The polar ice caps really are melting quickly. I realize we're still coming out of an ice age but the amount of change I've seen since I was a kid is pretty intense. These changes don't happen quickly in one human lifetime, they happen over geological time.
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Co2 is asserted as the cause of (perceived) change, but not really demonstrated. The whole thing is so politicized and evidently a bandwagon. The climate has never, ever been static, or "in balance".. but the more important point is that we don't truly understand how the Sun or cosmic environment works, and before we get all self-absorbed and level blame at ourselves we first need to understand all the mechanisms. Many scientists and science minded people will say we do understand how the Sun works, reasonably well, but it just isn't true unfortunately. There is now more than enough evidence, and holes in the conventional cosmological model, to warrant proper research in another direction.. and there is one available, which has been around for more than a century.. and that is considering the role of electricity in space.

They still haven't solved the Sun's coronal heating problem, almost 100 years now; how the corona can be a million degrees whilst the surface is a few mere thousand. Oh, many a convoluted and metaphysical arrangement is conjured up.. magnetic waves or what have you.. but to anyone not burdened by dogma and blessed with an open mind can entertain the idea that maybe the energy powering the Sun is coming in externally, and not from the core (which no one has actually seen). We don't believe the Earth powers the Auroras.. the power is coming in externally and being expressed first in the upper atmosphere.. why should the Sun be any different? Power coming in externally will be expressed first exactly where it is, in the corona.

But this possibility would completely upturn what we know about cosmology, Einstein's space-time and relativity dominance, our solar system history, aspects in physics, and more. Hence the reluctance of the scientific community to embrace the possibility. It's clear, to me anyway, that the experts are blinded by dogma and faith in certain tenets about how our solar environment operates. And until I'm convinced we have a solid model for that I'll be damned if I'm going to buy into this AGW nonsense.
 
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Are the insane smog levels in cities like Beijing a scam? are the rivers made unportable from toxic human waste a clever ploy to make us buy bottled water?

Pollution from the smallest cigarette butt to diesel fumes from cars are all avoidable and the only scam that exists is the one saying that it's not fixed by local actions.

The sooner all our cars and homes run on green energy the better I say
 
the climate of venus is extremely hot, due to much higher amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere. we started to pump excess CO2 into the atmosphere since the industrial revolution, and ever since then the average temperature has been rising. I think it's pretty laughable to deny these facts. even I experience very drastic changes in climate and I am only in my 20s. when I was a child, it never really got much hotter than 30°C in the summer, nowadays we have 35-39°C on a regular basis in high summer. I also see less and less snow, more and more mild winters (don't know when it was colder than -5 degrees in recent years.)

I also don't really get the connection you make between the atmosphere on earth and what we don't understand about the sun... what does this have to do with the greenhouse effect? (which is very real, because if it were not, earth would be a cold, dead place.)
 
One Thousand Words said:
Are the insane smog levels in cities like Beijing a scam? are the rivers made unportable from toxic human waste a clever ploy to make us buy bottled water?

Pollution from the smallest cigarette butt to diesel fumes from cars are all avoidable and the only scam that exists is the one saying that it's not fixed by local actions.

The sooner all our cars and homes run on green energy the better I say
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You're conflating many issues.. particulate pollution, water pollution, general waste and toxic emissions. All very real issues that need tackling by the way, don't doubt that for a second! But nothing to do with Co2 based climate change, that is a totally different issue to all the forms of pollution listed there.. not least because Co2 isn't a pollutant. I'd be quite happy if we focused on all the issues you listed there, because to me they're way more pressing than Co2 based climate change which isn't as demonstrable as say smog or toxic waste.

bagseed said:
the climate of venus is extremely hot, due to much higher amounts of CO2 in the atmosphere. we started to pump excess CO2 into the atmosphere since the industrial revolution, and ever since then the average temperature has been rising. I think it's pretty laughable to deny these facts. even I experience very drastic changes in climate and I am only in my 20s. when I was a child, it never really got much hotter than 30°C in the summer, nowadays we have 35-39°C on a regular basis in high summer. I also see less and less snow, more and more mild winters (don't know when it was colder than -5 degrees in recent years.)

I also don't really get the connection you make between the atmosphere on earth and what we don't understand about the sun... what does this have to do with the greenhouse effect? (which is very real, because if it were not, earth would be a cold, dead place.)
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First point, the history of Venus is not the history of Earth.. we know scant information about Venus in comparison to Earth, especially in regards to its history.

Yes more Co2 has gone into the atmosphere, and the temperature has changed, so what? The temperature was never static to begin with! The River Thames in the not so distant past froze over, for instance. Climate is always shifting, and was doing so long before we started increasing our Co2 emissions. There are so many other factors, so many, it is preposterous to place all the stake on Co2. Anyway, the correlation between global temperature levels and solar activity is a pretty good match. If you're going to stake it on something, stake it on the Sun for gods sake not some piddily fucking gas that makes up a tiny percentage of the atmosphere. Your experience of weather events is irrelevant; the weather and climate never remains static, it is always changing.

My point about the Sun and interstellar environment is that we don't fully understand it, and given the energy involved it is prudent to warrant further investigation there first. If anything is going to shift Earth's climate, it's the Sun or surrounding context, not some insignificant gas.
 
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No one ever said the Earth's climate and temperature are static. The percentage of CO2, the temperature, etc have varied wildly over the course of Earth's history, but from what we can tell (by taking ice core samples, etc), the acceleration of these things is drastic right now, much more rapid than they have been in other shifts. Before the industrial revolution, the levels of CO2 in the air remained relatively steady, but in the last 120 years, the parts per million has increased an amount that typically takes 5 to 20 thousand years. We know this because ice captures current atmospheric gas content, and we have some really old ice in polar glaciers.

All of the climate issues are interconnected. I'm intensely alarmed by the rapid sea temperature change (that is killing the coral reefs for example shockingly quickly). This is happening primarily because the polar ice caps are melting very quickly and less sunlight is reflected off the ice and instead absorbed into the ocean as heat. And yeah, I know that there have been periods in Earth's history where the polar ice has all but (or completely) melted. But these changes take place over geological time. It's estimated that the north pole will be ice-free in the summer by 2050. The level of shrinkage has been unbelievable even since I was born. In 2050 I'll be 67... it's not natural for such a huge change in the state of the Earth to take place within one human lifetime, these things happen over thousands of years. The role of each gas in the atmosphere is powerful and the whole thing is a balance. Releasing trillions of tons of carbon per year into the planet's atmospheric system is a huge imbalancing factor, how could it not be? So much evidence suggests it is. Is all that evidence part of a scam?
 
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Climate change denial is the epitome of a scam.
Most governments and fossil fuel interests are in on it.
 
So what if it has risen, Co2 makes up 0.04% of the atmosphere.. that's not even a 'blanket' as it is often referred to. Not even a fucking bed sheet, a slice, wafer.. it borders on total irrelevance! Temperatures haven't risen in almost 2 decades and last time I checked they were saying it could last another decade.. but they were also quick to reassure everyone it will 'most likely' rebound quicker after that. Given how accurate they have been with models thus far how could one ever doubt their assurances.

I'm not going to debate this hysterical nonsense again. You either see this whole thing for what it is, or you've been snowed by a very convincing political-science media campaign.
 
Except temperatures HAVE raised in the past 2 decades. Where's your evidence they haven't? It's a measurable raise in polar temperatures specifically which is why the glaciers are melting so fast. Even in remembering how the weather was for me as a kid, they're generally higher by several degrees. Obviously there are exceptions, ie, the polar vortex a couple of winters ago. But by and large, there is a lot less snow, and it's warmer in the winter especially. I remember growing up in northern Illinois, there would usually end up being a large accumulated snowpack partway through the winter, and it would rarely raise above freezing. Now snow rarely accumulates. I was just there for 2 weeks and it only got BELOW freezing one single time. Everyone there was talking about how weird it is.

Do you deny that the glaciers are really receding/melting quickly, where they weren't before the industrial revolution? Because to me it's undeniable, you can go there yourself and see (not that I have done so personally). Sea levels really have risen from it and continue to rise, there's no denying that either.

I think this isn't going anywhere though so I'm not really interested in debating it either.
 
Ozone is only 0.3ppm of the atmosphere and still is a very important factor. saying that CO2 is irrelevant is laughable.
 
There are also some climate-people saying the sea-levels will rise as the ice-caps melt. So that might be it for some of our seaside areas. I guess somewhere like Switzerland would be safe.
 
Bagseed said:
Ozone is only 0.3ppm of the atmosphere and still is a very important factor. saying that CO2 is irrelevant is laughable.
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In the context of affecting global climate it is irrelevant; it is being mistaken for the driving causative factor.

willow11 said:
I also find the suggestion that the sun is in receipt of energy rather then outputting it to be laughable.
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And you're 100% certain the Sun operates in the way that you were taught in school? The amount of bafflement and mystery that still surrounds numerous aspects of astrophysics, not least with our Sun, means the debate on many issues is far from settled. For example, recent discoveries of exo-planets and other solar systems containing planets that are in orbits and of sizes that are not congruent with current understanding about solar system formation. They've had to re-examine long held assumptions about it.. though still refusing to go back to the drawing board completely.

There are so many problems and issues in the cosmological model. So many. To say an alternative hypothesis is laughable shows your ignorance of the topic area.
 
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Vampires turn into dark matter and get sucked up by the sun when they burn in daylight. That's where the sun's energy comes from.
 
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